GD BEST IN STATE

[Eric Morrison]

Can someone post the CT list? Thanks.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Eric,
 
CONNECTICUT
° 1 Stanwich Club Greenwich
° 2 C.C. of Fairfield Fairfield
° 3 Lake of Isles G.C.
(South) North Stonington
° 4 Great River G.C. Milford ◆
° 5 Lake of Isles G.C.
(North) North Stonington ◆
° 6 TPC River Highlands
Cromwell
° 7 The Cse. at Yale New Haven
° 8 Wee Burn C.C. Darien
° 9 Hartford G.C. W. Hartford
° 10 Black Hall C. Old Lyme

[Anthony_Nysse]

If you check out the ranking, the top course in the state of Louisiana, The Bluffs on Thompson Creek, is ahead of Squire Creek, a very fine Fazio effort. The irony and wacked thing about that is The Bluffs closed 2 months ago!

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Jerry Kluger]

Matt: 

I couldn't agree with you more - the NJ list is all screwed up - the misplaced love for Baltusrol, the lack of repsect for Trump National, etc.  I have yet to meet anyone, including myself, who has played Shore Gate and wants to go back.

[Jim Colton]

.

[Tom_Doak]

Jim:

Historically, at least, the top 100 public courses threw out "Resistance to Scoring" as one of the criteria for ranking, and substituted "Playability" instead, so the public-course rankings shouldn't be in precisely the same order as the state-by-state.

But, Ballyneal is one of those courses I wouldn't expect the GOLF DIGEST formula to appreciate.

[JNC Lyon]

I'll be weighing in on the NY and Pennsy lists tomorrow ...

One quick comment ...

THE GREATEST OMISSION FOR THE EMPIRE STATE IS CLEARLY ...

Olde Kinderhook -- Rees Jones winning layout just south of Albany. Gets near zero attention but can make a strong case for a top ten placement in the state.

Olde Kinderhook is better than Leatherstocking?  I'm not a Rees fan so that's hard to believe.  What makes the course stand out over the great downstate courses or the Oak Hill courses and Crag Burn?

[Paul Richards]

Please keep the state lists coming!

I am especially interested in seeing Illinois' list.


Thanks!

[Jim Colton]

Jim:

Historically, at least, the top 100 public courses threw out "Resistance to Scoring" as one of the criteria for ranking, and substituted "Playability" instead, so the public-course rankings shouldn't be in precisely the same order as the state-by-state.

But, Ballyneal is one of those courses I wouldn't expect the GOLF DIGEST formula to appreciate.

Tom,

 I don't think that is the case anymore.  Andy T made the comment that Playability was sadly no longer in the mix.  And if you look at the public rankings and how they stack up to the overall top 100 and the state-by-state's, they line up as if they are under the same system, as far as I can tell.

 You're right, Ballyneal does have some forces that seem to be working against it that, barring a change, will keep it from probably making the top 50 anytime soon even if the panelists appreciate it fully.  That's why I argued the problem is with the formula, not necessarily the raters.

[Kalen Braley]

The Utah list is mostly all the same players from last time just jumbled up a bit. The Nicklaus course at Promontory debutes at #2 for the state. Not sure why Willow Creek and Hidden Valley remain in the top 10, but all the rest are solid courses.

On a few side notes:

The Dye Course at Promontory shows up in the Best 100 Public courses.  Perhaps something couled have changed recently but as of last summer it was definitly private.

Still no sign of Rustic Canyon in either the State List or top 100 Public list.

[Paul Richards]

Does someone have the link to where all the state lists are located?

[Matt_Ward]

JNC:

I saw your post so you can see my entire NY comments below. Leatherstocking is a fine layout -- but the bar for NY golf is THAT high.
If it grabs a spot -- and for me that's a big "if" -- it would be #29 or #30 at best.

OK is a much finer layout than Leatherstocking. Unfortunately, too many people see the name of Rees Jones and then apply some tagline that doesn't fit in this specific case.

First rate property -- balanced with an interesting routing and a solid combo of different holes. Course has the good to hold a big time tourney and at the same time can handle the high handicap types (within reason).

Gets NO attention because few, if any, people see the Albany area as a golf location.

If you have not played it -- then your NY golf education is not complete until you do.



Jerry:

What amazes me about the Jersey list is how they decide to include a number of public courses when you also have key private ones not even considered.

NJ has dramatically improved with a range of courses that should have been listed.

The work Hanse / Bahto did with Essex County CC in West Orange is one clear cut example. The course benefited immensely and yet doesn't even earn a mention -- somewhere !

Ditto the key improvements carried out by RDC management at the Banks Course at Forsgate. Credit architect Stephen Key for the inclusion of the famed Biaritz at the 17th there. For those who love Banks his work in Monroe Township is worthy of serious acclaim -- even at the national level for the level of details found there.

I also think the same can be said for how well the Banks / Ross contributoins are made at Montclair GC -- also in West Orange.

Gents:

The NY list for analysis ...

Can't really argue with the first two ... although I am aware that WFW gets little love because of the severe nature of the place.

FI is a wonderful layout and worthy of honors -- just not #3 -- for me it's a borderline call for the top ten. Not a knock on the course itself but an elevation of a few others. NGLA deserves a higher position than what Digest provided.

I like the challenges presented by Oak Hill / East but I have never understood what the real elements of greatness are beyond the demands presented. I like some of the still maintained Ross contributions like the spectacular short uphill par-4 14th. The obsession with more and more length and still too many trees for my tastes pushes the layout down a bit.
I see Oak Hill / East as the NY version of Baltusrol / Lower in Jersey - but just a tad beyond the Springfield layout.

Can't possibly fathom the love for HN. I would also throw out of the picture places like Trump's in Briarcliff and all the layouts connected w Turning Stone. The ones at the gambling location are OK layouts but the bar for NY's top 30 is just way toooooo high for any of them.

Saratoga National is fine if the list were pure public courses. It doesn't belong in such elite company.

I've only played OH/W once and found it enjoyable but I can't see it being rated that high -- ditto CC of Rochester. Possibly those who have played it recently can further explain it's position but from my memory the likes of Sleepy Hollow, Fenway and Westchester / West would all be above where it's rated now. I personally see Westchester as one of the more underrated top tier clubs -- it's validation was proven countless times when it hosted the Classic over the years.

I have always been a fan of BB -- but not in the present form and extreme desires to have the course play way too narrow and lengthened to the excess. Borderline top ten call for me.

I have not played Friar's Head to date but clearly those who have cannot fathom on why it's so low. I have played Sebonack and I see it as one of NY's ten best layouts. Demanding no doubt -- but also loaded with an array of design features that work well given the input of two very determined people that Michael P engaged and kept focused throughout.

I'd like to see what QR has done recently as mentioned by Jeff Lewis.

Candidly, Deepdale gets plenty of mentions because of the "exclusive tag" -- I think there are other quality courses ahead of it -- places like Meadowbrook and Century come quickly to mind.

Crag Burn and CC of Buffalo are layouts that few downstate people ever really see -- let alone play. I'd keep them both -- a bit higher for sure.

WF / East is a wonderful layout but often gets lost in the sauce with the West. I'd have it -- but not top ten. Garden City would garner a top ten position with me -- likely right at the 10th spot.

No doubt about keeping places like Maidstone, Piping Rock, The Creek, Atlantic -- the issue would be which one finishes ahead of the others.

I'm glad to see The Bridge mentioned -- but I see it towards the end of the listing. Rees Jones should be saluted for his work at Olde Kinderhook which is badly overlooked.

[Kalen Braley]

If this works a PDF of the booklet can be found here: (cut it  and paste it in your browser)

files.me.com/jpaulcarey/ly4fwd

Paul,

This works....copy and paste into a browser and you can download it.

[Mike_Cirba]

C'mon Dave...Sentryworld used to be in their Top 100 in the country!    

Get over it....we're obviously insane.....let's go pick some petunias.  


As far as the Illinois list, the only reason Chicago Golf is ahead of Medinah and Butler is once again...EXCLUSIVITY.

[Phil McDade]

The Wisconsin list:

1 - Whistling Straits (Straits)
2 - Milwaukee CC
3 - Blackwolf Run (River)
4 - Whistling Straits (Irish)
5 - Oneida Golf & CC
6 - Green Bay CC
7 - Horseshoe Bay (in Egg Harbor, which is Door County)
8 - Blackwolf Run (Meadow Valleys)
9 - Sentry World
10 - The Bull at Pinehurst Farms

Well, this is kind of (not kind of, now that I think of it) a joke, with no Lawsonia. I'm pretty sure all the GD raters went to a Packers game, got drunk, and were shown a good time up north, given the love for #s 5, 6, and 7. (Horseshoe being anywhere near a top-10 list in Wisconsin is a real travesty. It is pretty up there...)

Calling Dick Daley -- what's up with the Fox Valley/Door County love by GD raters?

[Paul Carey]

Old Town Club 11 in NC    I think it is better than that.
Tobacco Road #25  ?  

[David Stamm]

Pasatiempo 18 in Cal.?

Stone Eagle 25?

Both of those courses are better than that. There are not 17 or 24 better in Cal, IMHO. And alot of these courses are not better than Rustic Canyon, and that wasn't even on the list.

[PThomas]

Here's Illinois, in order:

Chicago Golf

Medinah 3

Butler

Canyata

OF- North

Rich Harvest

Shoreacres

Kemper

Skokie

Dubs

OF - South

Conway

TPC - Deere Run

Black Sheep

North SHore

Beverly

Bully Valley (you escaped the ultimate "dis" by the skin of your teeth!)   

Bob 'O

Glen CLub

Weaver Ridge

The General

#25 Sunset Ridge.

all i will say is....wow!

[Mark Pritchett]

On the South Carolina list I was glad to see Chechessee Creek and Colleton River (Dye) make the list.  Joel Zuckerman should be happy to see Secession move up.  (I was!).

As for Georgia I was excited to see Atlanta Country Club get a little love and move to #5, it seems to travel a little under the radar among Atlanta courses, but it is a very fun course to play. 

Interesting that there is not one Reynolds Plantation on the Georgia list.


 

[Ryan DeMay]

Ohio anyone? Please.

[Scott Stearns]

is their a minimum number of evaluations to make the list? is it the same for the hot100 as for the state by state?

[Tim Leahy]

How about CA??

1. Cypress Point Club
2. Pebble Beach
3. Olympic - Lake
4. Riviera CC
5. San Francisco Golf Club
6. The Quarry at La Quinta
7. LACC North
8. Spyglass Hill
9. Monterey Peninsula Shore
10. The Preserve GC
11. Mayacama GC
12. Valley Club of Montecito
13. Porcupine Creek GC
14. The Bridges at Rancho Santa Fe
15. Sherwood CC
16. The Madison Club
17. Bel Air CC
18. Pasatiempo GC
19. Tradition GC La Quinta
20. Shady Canyon GC
21. Lahontan GC
22. The Reserve GC
23. Links at Spanish Bay
24. Bighorn GC Mountain
25. Stone Eagle Club
26. Winchester CC
27. Vintage Club (Desert)
28. Cordevalle GC
29. Torrey Pines South
30. PGA West Stadium
31. Bighorn GC Canyons
32. Trump National
33. La Quinta Resort Mountain
34. Pelican Hill GC Ocean South
35. Old Greenwood GC

The top of the list looks fine except for the Quarry that sticks out like a sore thumb. There must be some Fazio bias with the Quarry and the Preserve so high. Has anyone played Porcupine, the Tradition or the Reserve? I have not even heard of these courses.
Also if anyone wants to play Winchester CC(#26) better do it soon, it is now open to the public and may be NLE in the near future.

[Jim Colton]

is their a minimum number of evaluations to make the list? is it the same for the hot100 as for the state by state?

Only 10 panelist votes needed for inclusion on the state-by-state lists, 45 for overall, 24 for top 100 public.

[Scott Stearns]

thanks.  how long are they good for?  looks like a lot of courses fell 40-50 places, which to me means that they lost a lot of good evals.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Ohio anyone? Please.

Ryan,
  Here you go.

° 1 Muirfield Village G.C.
Dublin ★
° 2 The Golf Club
New Albany ★
° 3 Inverness Club Toledo ★
° 4 Double Eagle Club
Galena ★
° 5 Scioto C.C. Columbus ★
° 6 Camargo Club Indian Hill
° 7 NCR C.C. (South)
Kettering
° 8 Firestone C.C. (South)
Akron
° 9 Brookside C.C. Canton
° 10 Sand Ridge G.C. Chardon
° 11 Canterbury G.C.
Beachwood
° 12 Wedgewood G. & C.C.
Powell
° 13 The Country Club
Pepper Pike
° 14 Kirtland C.C.
Willoughby
° 15 Coldstream C.C.
Cincinnati
° 16 Brookside G. & C.C.
Columbus
° 17 TPC River’s Bend
Maineville
° 18 Avalon Lakes G. Cse.
Warren ◆
° 19 Longaberger G.C.
Nashport ◆
° 20 Fowler’s Mill G. Cse.
(Lake/River) Chesterland ◆
° 21 Shaker Run G.C.
(Woodlands/Lakeside)
Lebanon ◆
° 22 Firestone C.C. (North)
Akron
° 23 Pinnacle G.C. Grove City
° 24 Tartan Fields G.C. Dublin
° 25 Ohio State University
G.C. (Scarlet) Columbus