Personal Top courses list

[Tom Walsh]

Bill S.- great list. I agree 1980 was the Mendoza line for publics in StL. Goat track city. Some publics I played NLE Arrowhead, Bahnfyre, North Shore, Pebble Creek, Crystal Lake, Lakewood.

I think the class of the publics today is Gateway, followed by in no particular order- Normandie, Quail Creek, Pevely Farms, Forest Park, Annbriar, I'm forgetting some.

The privates I've played in town include- Algonquin, Westborough, Westwood, Old Warson, Norwood Hills (both), Meadowbrook

I think all roads lead to St. Louis Country Club, simply the best on many levels. They are regrassing right now, hope it takes. I've never played a complete round there (sniff)

ps- my son plays his first HS match of the season today at Quail, keeping my fingers crossed.

Signed, the proud papa

[Dan_Callahan]

Hey Brad,

The Ranch is definitely worth a play. It gets ridiculed by some for its extremely downhill par 5s (#9 and #16). I happen to love the course. In fact, it might be my favorite public in Mass, or at least very close to Red Tail. The opening hole, a par 5, is exceptional. And the 10th is a personal favorite. Unfortunately, the 17th, which is a neat par 3, doesn't really fit the design of the rest of the course (although it is a relief that they never turned on the waterfall on the right side of the green). And 18 is, in my opinion, a bad finishing hole. The green is cool, but the tee shot sucks. It is my least favorite hole on the course. We've debated this here before, but I wish they would have routed 18 on the land that is currently the driving range. It would have had the same feel of 1 and 2 and would have been a spectacular finish.

Dan

[Matt Bosela]

Niagara Region (Ontario, Canada) -

1. Lookout Point CC (Walter Travis)
2. Cherry Hill Club (Walter Travis)
3. Niagara Parks Whirlpool GC (Stanley Thompson)
4. St. Catharines GCC (Stanley Thompson)
5. LochNess Links (Graham Cooke)
6. Legends on the Niagara - Ussher's Creek (Thomas McBroom)
7. Grand Niagara (Rees Jones)
8. Legends on the Niagara - Battlefield (Doug Carrick)
9. Peninsula Lakes GC (Rene Muylaert)
10. Bridgewater GCC (Stanley Thompson)

[mike_malone]

                    PINE  VALLEY


              HuntingdonValleyLancasterManufacturersLehighPhillyCountryMerionGlenMill

      Torresdale/ FrankfordPhilmontAroniminkNorthHillsLllanerchLulu

              PaxonHollowLederachRiverton

[Tony_Muldoon]

OK; a non US contribution limited to courses which are guaranteed worthwhile to visit and play:

Netherlands

1. Haagsche (Royal The Hague G&C)-Colt
2. De Pan-Colt
3. Noordwijk-Pennink
4. Kennemer-Colt
5. Eindhoven-Colt
6. Hilversum-Burrows, Colt?
7. Rosendael-Del Court van krimpen/Pennink
8. Toxandria-Morrison, Colt, sir Guy Campbell


Belgium

1. Royal Zoute-Colt
2. Ravenstein-Simpson
3. Spa - Simpson
4. Royal Antwerp-Simpson/W.Park Jr
5. Limburgsche (Houthalen) Hawtree
6. Sart-Tilman - Simpson

Not played; Royal Ostend

Luxemburg:
Grand Ducal

Composite Benelux:

1. Haagsche
2. De Pan
3. Noordwijk
4. Kennemer
5. Royal Zoute
6. Eindhoven
7. Ravenstein
8. Spa
9. Royal Antwerp
10. Hilversum
11. Rosendael
12. Toxandria
13. Houthalen
14. Sart-Tilman
15. Grand Ducal

Thaks Christian, I have printed this out and stuck it on the wall for the time when my clients start wanting to buy again.  It will be time to revisit all my Belgian and Dutch suppliers.

[Jim Franklin]

Have any of you St Louis guys been to Dalhousie? I am going out there with a client at the end of May and hope it is worth the trip.

[Cristian]

OK; a non US contribution limited to courses which are guaranteed worthwhile to visit and play:

Netherlands

1. Haagsche (Royal The Hague G&C)-Colt
2. De Pan-Colt
3. Noordwijk-Pennink
4. Kennemer-Colt
5. Eindhoven-Colt
6. Hilversum-Burrows, Colt?
7. Rosendael-Del Court van krimpen/Pennink
8. Toxandria-Morrison, Colt, sir Guy Campbell


Belgium

1. Royal Zoute-Colt
2. Ravenstein-Simpson
3. Spa - Simpson
4. Royal Antwerp-Simpson/W.Park Jr
5. Limburgsche (Houthalen) Hawtree
6. Sart-Tilman - Simpson

Not played; Royal Ostend

Luxemburg:
Grand Ducal

Composite Benelux:

1. Haagsche
2. De Pan
3. Noordwijk
4. Kennemer
5. Royal Zoute
6. Eindhoven
7. Ravenstein
8. Spa
9. Royal Antwerp
10. Hilversum
11. Rosendael
12. Toxandria
13. Houthalen
14. Sart-Tilman
15. Grand Ducal

Thaks Christian, I have printed this out and stuck it on the wall for the time when my clients start wanting to buy again.  It will be time to revisit all my Belgian and Dutch suppliers.

I wonder now what you are selling, flowers, chocolate or cheese? 
Any Clients in the St Louis area?

[Matt_Ward]

Be curious if people would separate their private v public listings because many people may never get the access for the exclusive ones.

[Mike_Cirba]

I think this is a really good thread.

Thanks for thinking of it, Bill.

[Tyler Kearns]

Winnipeg

Private
Elmhurst (Ross)
Pine Ridge (Ross)
St. Charles (Ross/Mackenzie)
Glendale (S. Thompson)
Niakwa (S. Thompson)

TK

[Ronald Montesano]

Western New York (Batavia to Buffalo to NY/PA border), not Canada
Top Ten Lists

Publics (modified to add architects):

Ivy Ridge--In-House (owners)
Harvest Hill--Hurdzan +
Diamond Hawk--Hurdzan +
Arrowhead--Witter
Holiday Valley--Tryon with a needed Paul
Peek'n Peak Upper--John Exley, the Xen Hassenplug of his day
Glen Oak--RTJ Sr.
Ironwood--Witter
Sheridan--Harries
Byrncliff--Tryon

Privates  (modified to add architects):

Crag Burn--RTJ Sr.
Country Club of Buffalo--Ross
Stafford--Travis
Park Club--Colt/Allison
Wanakah--UNK...possibly Ross involvement
Niagara Falls--Tilly orig...RTJ Sr., Cornish & Silva since (ouch!)
River Oaks--Muirhead!!!
Brookfield--Harries
Niagara Frontier--UNK with a Carrick addition
Springville--UNK

[Ian Andrew]

Greater Toronto Top 20 – (Golden Horseshoe)

1.   St. George’s – Thompson - private
2.   Hamilton – Colt - private
3.   Toronto – Colt - private
4.   Devil’s Paintbrush – Hurdzan Fry - private
5.   The National – George & Tom Fazio - private
6.   Scarborough – Tillinghast - private
7.   Eagle’s Nest – Carrick – public
8.   Burlington – Thompson - private
9.   Summit – Thompson - private
10.   Osprey Valley Heathlands – Carrick - public
11.   Rosedale – Bendelow and Ross - private
12.   Weston – Park and Allison - private
13.   King Valley – Carrick - private
14.   Maple Downs –  – private
15.   Beacon Hall – Cupp - private
16.   Angus Glen South – Carrick - public
17.   Glen Abbey – Jack Nicklaus - public
18.   Mississaugua – Barrett - private
19.   Glendale – unknown - private
20.   Greystone – Carrick - private

[Jeff_Stettner]

Have any of you St Louis guys been to Dalhousie? I am going out there with a client at the end of May and hope it is worth the trip.

One of the top 5 courses in the state. Well worth the effort.

[Bill Shamleffer]

Be curious if people would separate their private v public listings because many people may never get the access for the exclusive ones.

Matt,
Great idea.  I too want to see what publics I may want try to play when visiting other parts of the country.  Below is my list seperated by private and public, and comments per a few other public courses in the area.

PRIVATE:

1. St. Louis C.C.
          (Charles Blair McDonald)
2. Westwood
          (Harold Paddock)
3. Bellerive
          (Robert Trent Jones, Sr.)
5. Fox Run
          (Gary Kern)
6. Glen Echo
         (Robert Foulis)
7. Algonquin (I grew up caddying at this course, so likely some strong bias)
         (Robert Foulis)
8. Old Warson
         (Robert Trent Jones, Sr.)
9. Norwood - West Course
          (Wayne Stiles)
11. Crescent Farms (formerly The Players Club, formerly Crescent C.C.)
          (Gary Kern)
12. Norwood - East course
          (Wayne Stiles)

PUBLIC:

4. Normandie
         (Robert Foulis)
10. Annbriar (Waterloo, Il.)
          (Dr. Michael Hurdzan)
13. Forest Park (current 27 holes)
         (Robert Foulis)

As I stated earlier I have not played Gateway National, and this course has the current rep as the best public in the St. Louis region.

If I were to add an additional public to my list it would be:

Spencer T. Olin (Alton, Ill.) by Palmer

Three other decent publics that I like are:
Quail Creek, by Hale Irwin; &
Belk Park (Woodriver, Ill.), a Packard design from 1970; &
Far Oaks (Ill.), by Bob Goalby

I have not yet played Gary Kern's Aberdeen in Crescent, Mo.

I do not like Missouri Bluffs by Fazio or Pevely Farms by Arthur Hills.  My opinion is that these two courses are way overpriced.  They each try to be your Country Club For the Day.  The facilities, conditions, and service are country club caliber; but the courses disappoint me.  To get my interest, each course should be about 1/3 to 1/2 cheaper (and get rid of the expensive non-golf aspects).

[Matthew MacKay]

Ian, good list. If we could expand the Greater Toronto Area by an hour's drive any which way, the list would get even more impressive. Here's my take on Greater Toronto Area...

St. George's
Hamilton
National
Paintbrush
Toronto * (let's see how it is when the massive renovation/restoration is complete)
Scarboro
Weston
Eagle's Nest
Beacon Hall
Summit
Rosedale
Coppinwood
Thornhill
Osprey Heathland
Mississaugua
Islington
Osprey Hoot
Burlington
Oakdale
Maple Downs
Oshawa
Glen Abbey

[Tom Walsh]

"f I were to add an additional public to my list it would be:

Spencer T. Olin (Alton, Ill.) by Palmer

Three other decent publics that I like are:
Quail Creek, by Hale Irwin; &
Belk Park (Woodriver, Ill.), a Packard design from 1970; &
Far Oaks (Ill.), by Bob Goalby

I have not yet played Gary Kern's Aberdeen in Crescent, Mo."


Bill Sham-
Forgot about Spencer T, a robust test. They had the Public Links there about ten years ago. And I agree with you on Pevely Farms. A little dissapointing the last time I went there.


You will approve I think but my son Daniel starts his caddying career at AGC this weekend. Better late than never.

Cheers, Tom

[Sean Leary]

Seattle/Western Washington Top 10

Chambers Bay
Aldarra
Tumble Creek
Sahalee
Seattle GC
Tacoma CC
Fircrest
Broadmoor
TPC Snoqualmie
Trophy Lake/Home Course (Tie)

All Private except for the last

[Phil McDade]

Chicago area:

1.  Reverse Jans National - transcends golf.  Takes the game to a higher plane.  Head and shoulders above all others.

AGREE!

6.  Lawsonia (geographic stretch, but worth it)

The geographic stretch of all stretches......

Shivas:

If you include Lawsonia, would you also include any of the Kohler courses, particularly the old, original River Course at Kohler (still in play once a year for about a week, last I'd heard)?

I'm probably not as well-versed as you on other southern Wisconsin courses to include in the geographically expanded Chicago list, but from what I saw last fall, Milwaukee CC certainly belongs.



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