Would Mac even want his name on Sharp Park?

[Joel_Stewart]

What would Dr. Mackenzie do about Sharp Park?  There is virtually none of his work there any more.  Aside from the seawall, Robert Muir Graves destroyed the course in 1972.

The city of San Francisco has run this course into the ground.

A number of groups are mobilizing to shut the course down.
www.sfnaturalareas.org/entries/72



The course is a disgrace and sure it could be fixed for $20 million.  What would Mac do?

[David_Tepper]

Joel -

Given the appreciable storm/ocean damage the Sharp Park course suffered within just a few years of it being built in the 1930's (and the damage from the ocean it has suffered since), one could question the wisdom of building the course on that site in the first place. 

The current shortcomings of Sharp Park and the SF muni golf operation have been discussed here a good number of times over the past couple of years. Maybe it is time to find another punching bag!

The chances finding the funding for a restoration/renovation of Sharp Park within the next 5-10 years are slim and none. As much as I regret saying this, given the environmental obstacles, maybe the best outcome at this point is to reduce Sharp to a 9-hole course with a nice driving range. At the very least, the range could be a real money maker.

DT       

[Joel_Stewart]

Joel -

Given the appreciable storm/ocean damage the Sharp Park course suffered within just a few years of it being built in the 1930's (and the damage from the ocean it has suffered since), one could question the wisdom of building the course on that site in the first place. 
      

It's possible that with the success of Pebble Beach and Cypress Point, Mackenzie didn't see the difference in tidal activity between the two areas?

I know Sharp has been discussed here before as well as architects taking their names off of courses.  My question is, would Mackenzie want his name on the Sharp Park course being it has been so poorly managed and wiped out by weather and Robert Muir Graves.  My guess should he still be alive is he would throw in the towel and not want any part of that course.

[David_Tepper]

Joel -

How can any of us know what was going thru the good Doctor's mind 70+ years ago? My guess is that he would have been willing to design a course and earn a fee just about anywhere in the middle of the Depression.

As far a having his name linked to the course, I am not aware any anyone is currently promoting Sharp Park as being part of the Mackenzie "golf trail" in Northern California (Cypress, Pasatiempo, Green Hills & the Meadow Club).

Other than the participants on this board and a few like-minded golf course nerds, I doubt 98% of the people who play Sharp Park on a regular basis know or care that Mackenzie designed the original course.

DT

[Tom Huckaby]

David - while that is certainly true... Sharp is sure not part of any MacKenzie golf trail... well the course itself sure promotes the designer.  Note:

http://www.sharpparkgc.com/

Methinks the Good Doctor is rolling in his grave for a lot of reasons, but this might be way at the top.  There's more MacKenzie in my back yard than at Sharp Park as it is now.

TH

[David_Tepper]

Tom -

I stand corrected and chagrined! My apologies to all. Given this new enlightenment, I would now guess that just 88% of the people who play Sharp Park on any given day have no idea who Mackenzie was and if he designed the course.
 
Does anyone have a copy of Dan Wexler's missing links book handy? While the Mackenzie features of the course have suffered the ravages of time, neglect and abuse, can anyone comment upon how much (if any) of Mackenzie's routing remains intact?

Between the damage from the ocean on the west side of the course and the widening of Highway 1 on the east side of the course, Sharp Park has had a tough road to hoe, aside from its handling by the SF Rec & Park Dept.   

DT

[Bill_McBride]

I played a lot at Sharp Park between 1967 and 1978 and had no idea who Mackenzie was!  (Of course I caddied at Meadow Club in the late 50's and had no idea about Dr Mac then either!)

But I always knew there were some cool holes out there, by the clubhouse and around the lagoon, but really didn't care for those holes up the big hill across the road.  Guess I was pretty much into the GCA even then, huh? 

[Kevin_Reilly]

Does anyone have a copy of Dan Wexler's missing links book handy? While the Mackenzie features of the course have suffered the ravages of time, neglect and abuse, can anyone comment upon how much (if any) of Mackenzie's routing remains intact?

I just looked at it.  Wexler says that "only a handful of holes (now) run consistent with MacKenzie's originals, and no appreciable trace of his strategy remains in play".

I'd agree with the second part of the above.  Looking at the routing, it is very difficult to find holes in the original that match today's. 

#16 (old) is close to #1 (now).  #12 (old) looks like #18 (now).  #17 (old) looks like #9.  Either #18 (old) or #1 (old, but reversed) looks like #10 (new) in location.  #10(old) had two fairways...nothing like it on the new, but location is similar to #14 (new).  #11 (old) is close to #15 (new).

There might be some other similarities, but I'm stretching.

Here is a Picasa slideshow of Sharp Park:

http://picasaweb.google.com/spgc4653/SharpParkTour#slideshow

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I have never played Sharp Park, but from watching the Picasa show, it looks like a nice course and one that would cost millions to replace.  This is silliness, my dog and I could operate this place and make a profit in its current condition.  I could even save the red legged frog, and help San Francisco's 1/2 billion dollar a year deficit.  This is government at its worst.

What is Sandy Tatum saying?

[Joel_Stewart]

What is Sandy Tatum saying?

He's staying clear of it.  He's still consumed with making Harding work. 

He does mention (in his GCA interview) Sharp as being the single most interesting public golf course in the US that should be restored.  Augusta on the private side.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Thanks Joel.

[Tim Nugent]

I rarely comment on a course I haven't been to but after looking at the slide show tour, I can't see where the $20 million comment.   The greens seemed to have adequete interest for a public course, the setting is nice (loved the wind-swept trees on #16).  The irrigatgion system apparently function just fine.  Give me 500 grand with control of the maintenance for a year and I'll give you something that will knock your socks off.  Seriously, I wish I knew what time of day these pic's were taken.  I see alot of shading issues.  Also, a little herbicide and that clover in the fairway would disappear.

The biggest problem (provided the routing is okay) I see is a mis-mash of bunker styles.  Just rebunker the course and it would really be elevated in stature.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Tim don't make common sense a part of this discussion.
Any discussion involving San Francisco has to be silly.  I think there is an architect trying to get involved and really confuse the issue.
 

[Tim Nugent]

Lynn, my apologies.  I haven't worked on the left coast and shouldn't subject you to my Mid-west sensibilities.  I often get criticized for stating the painfully obivious

[Joel_Stewart]

I think the $20 million is correct and it may go higher.  Think of the most expensive irrigation and drainage system you have done and triple it.

The irrigation system is at least 40 years old.  It's a quick coupler system

The course sits at a base of a hill that when it rains all the waters runs on to the course.  A freeway was installed in the 1950's or 60's which makes the problem worse.  The frog and snake can not be disturbed which doesn't allow the drainage or irrigation systems to be fixed.

You can not use herbicide because of the frog and snake.

The machinery for the staff is at least 20 to 30 years old.

The green staff are park and rec employees and governed by 5 unions.

Still want the job?

[Tim Nugent]

Only if I can do the work at night when no ones looking.  Now you know why I haven't ever pursued work on the "left" coast.  See my post on "LA selling courses" for my observation on govenment operated course.  No wonder CA is looking at bankruptcy. 

[Forrest Richardson]

Mr. Tatum is quiet, primarily because he received serious threats — likely from Union members — after initiating a SF golf study a few years ago. The study confirmed long-held suspicions; that privatizing portions of the SF golf system would be in the best interests of the City.

Well — that created a stir and suddenly a very honorable man was getting threats.

Too bad the Union (or whomever) were not golfers and grew up with noble values.

[Kalen Braley]

Tim,

What the pictures don't really show well is the massive blight that the sea wall is.  It really is hideous, and there is no way its going away. While I do agree that the course could be much better in conditioning and maintaince, it will never be even close to the gem it once was without a massive restoration project...which will likely never happen either.