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Donal Breasail

The Bridge Club on Long Island
« on: March 26, 2009, 05:30:27 AM »
I have been invited down to the a club called The Bridge,The course is situated on Long Island.It is very private but i have not heard anything about the course.Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Jonathan Cummings

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Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2009, 05:53:17 AM »
Don - IMO The Bridge is an underwhelming Rees course on a very nice piece of land.  I wish the old race track was there....  JC

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2009, 07:00:54 AM »
Don,
  I'm sure that jeff Warne will chime in and tell you what you need to know. I visited the course during the construction and grow in. The"traditionalsts" on this site are all going to say they dont care for it cause theyre going to compare it to Shinnecock, NGLA, Maidstone (which is a joke, in my opinion) Friars Head, etc....Some people love it, so people think it was a wasted use of land. I personally think its a soild track, one that I could get a healthy dose of.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Mike Sweeney

Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2009, 07:48:32 AM »
Well I don't have a conference call till 9:30 and it has been slow around here so here goes.

Don,

1. As a newbie, we prefer first and last names around here if that is okay with you.

2. The search engine is tough for a generic name like "the bridge". It comes up with 40 pages but trust me there are some good ones in there.

3. I watched the club fight through town regulatory and environmental restrictions for years to finally close the old race track and open the golf club. It is a great piece of property as you can see from the elevations above Peconic Bay.



4. As you will see from the old threads, The Bridge got killed here architecturally by many. The course has made a number of changes including opening up some holes, so many including myself need to get back.

5. I believe The Bridge is THE most financially successful private golf club in the history of golf in the United States of America. I can't think of a club that comes close. For purposes of this thread I am excluding Augusta National because it holds a very public tournament once a year, so many people see it and millions have seen it on TV. Thus, it can be argued that GCA.com is a reverse indicator of success. Doak's second tier efforts are dropping like flies while Rees' are thriving.

6. The atmosphere at The Bridge is unique are per the owner:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/fashion/sundaystyles/30BRIDGE.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=the%20bridge%20bob%20rubin&st=cse

7. As Anthony suggest, it is unfair to compare The Bridge to the giants on The East End. Thus I will limit my analysis to Rees courses:

        #1 on my list is Olde Kinderhook -
        #2 Atlantic GC
        #3 Nantucket GC
        #4 The Bridge
        #5 The Currituck Club - Outer Banks, NC

In a nutshell I would probably give it a 6 on The Doak Scale but would also be very open to seeing the improvements since I saw it near the opening. The big argument is could the property have yielded an 8 on The Doak Scale? Assuming no restrictions at all were imposed, I would say yes. However I do know there were restrictions placed on the site.

If you post this on Bomb Squad, it is loved there for its perfect conditioning and difficulty from the back tees. Probably a 9 on their scale.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 08:12:43 AM by Mike Sweeney »

jeffwarne

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Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2009, 09:05:58 AM »




3. I watched the club fight through town regulatory and environmental restrictions for years to finally close the old race track and open the golf club. It is a great piece of property as you can see from the elevations above Peconic Bay.



4. As you will see from the old threads, The Bridge got killed here architecturally by many. The course has made a number of changes including opening up some holes, so many including myself need to get back.

5. I believe The Bridge is THE most financially successful private golf club in the history of golf in the United States of America. I can't think of a club that comes close. For purposes of this thread I am excluding Augusta National because it holds a very public tournament once a year, so many people see it and millions have seen it on TV. Thus, it can be argued that GCA.com is a reverse indicator of success. Doak's second tier efforts are dropping like flies while Rees' are thriving.

6. The atmosphere at The Bridge is unique are per the owner:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/fashion/sundaystyles/30BRIDGE.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=the%20bridge%20bob%20rubin&st=cse

7. As Anthony suggest, it is unfair to compare The Bridge to the giants on The East End. Thus I will limit my analysis to Rees courses:

        #1 on my list is Olde Kinderhook -
        #2 Atlantic GC
        #3 Nantucket GC
        #4 The Bridge
        #5 The Currituck Club - Outer Banks, NC

In a nutshell I would probably give it a 6 on The Doak Scale but would also be very open to seeing the improvements since I saw it near the opening. The big argument is could the property have yielded an 8 on The Doak Scale? Assuming no restrictions at all were imposed, I would say yes. However I do know there were restrictions placed on the site.

If you post this on Bomb Squad, it is loved there for its perfect conditioning and difficulty from the back tees. Probably a 9 on their scale.

Mike,
a good analysis with a couple notes.

The town closed the race track-noise.
(It always amazes me how someone buys a house next to track and complains about the noise)
The owner, an avid racer fought to keep it as a race track,even operating it after it was officially closed at great expense.
It was one of the most scenic, dangerous, and famous tracks in the world of road racing (as opposed to the boring circular ovals in the NASCAR world).

The article in the NY times, while pointing out a casual attitude, is a little bit more of a sexy version of what the owner fantacises about.
Yes, there's plenty of unique modern art, but the crowd, while relaxed, easy going, and great people,----are really just a bunch rich white guys ???, like any other new club on the east end-complete with their shirts tucked in and 99 % of the attire you'd see at any other club.


I'm not a conditioning freak as some of my favorite courses have very simple maintenance schemes (Brora, Pennard, Goat Hill) but for those who are, it's paradise.
Where The Bridge stands out is not in the peak summer months (July August) where it's perfect (as are other East End Clubs) but rather in the shoulder months where other East End courses are virtually unputtable.
On opening day in April the greens are perfect, and they remain perfect until the day the course is closed in Halloween.
The fairways are tight ,firm, and fast, and remain such the entire playing season.
I walked 9 holes last saturday and the greens were already PERFECT.
the fairways were perfect and of course firm and fast (it is march)

Contrast this with early season (April/may) east end condidtions at the other great area courses that vary from deeply aerified to a bumpy poa annua crap shoot. (and believe me i love the old grasses and the feel they provide to a place)

There is a popular GCA modern east end course  that I've yet to play in a non peak season month that isn't aerified,scarified, sanded or verticut EVERY single time I go there or send someone there.
These are of course maintenance practices that their super the  has determined will produce proper peak season conditions.
This is not a dig on supers as these courses are staffed by the best supers in the country and the clubs are reknowned for their conditioning.

Gregg Stanley, in my opinion ;), the finest superintendants in the country, just doesn't see the need to routinely beat up the greens to acheive optimum conditions, although has stated that when/if needed, he will.
This is of course also a tribute to the soil conditions and construction of the course. But also, it's knowing when to leave well enough alone,and when not to.
He believes the course should be optimally presented for that member who pops out with guests from the city in early may or mid September- not just for the July August or Member-Guest crowd.
If you were rating The Bridge for 7 months of conditioning (April-October),it would blow away other nearby courses routinely given great marks for conditioning.


The course has undergone very limited architectural changes (one new centerline bunker on a long par 5) but the incredible vistas and flora and fauna of the place have been exposed due to selective clearing and pruning.
Those who played early in The Bridge's history would be shocked at how different the course now looks, feels, and plays.
All courses need time to mature, and The Bridge is/was no exception.

And yes, it's modern looking course with round an irregular shaped tees, but what would you expect from an ultramodern clubhouse, situated on the site and bordered by a race track whose heyday was the 50's 60's, and 70's.
The Hamptons has enough Shinnecock copy shingled clubhouses.

and Jonathon is right, it is a beautiful piece of land-and I do wish they had kept all of the track...
but it's still the coolest drive in   in golf.

as far as comparisons to other Rees courses Mike's probably about right (I'd put it ahead of nantucket certainly)  but I'd wonder which version of Atlantic to compare it to as Atlantic has very little Rees bunkering flavor at all having opted for the bunker du jour scheme and squaring off all its tees, as well as eliminating much of the fairway and greenside mounding(particularly behind the greens).
I love Atlantic in all its forms, but other than the routing and  greens, it's certainly modified Rees.

Criticisms of The Bridge?
1.too many uphill walks to tees followed by downhill tee shots.
2.Not enough centerline hazards-no heroic carries- in my opinion, some of the spectacular native areas could've been crossed,or at least angled to provide not just beauty, but strategy.
Currently you only go near them if you really screw up.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 08:34:54 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mike Sweeney

Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2009, 09:20:22 AM »

The town closed the race track-noise.
(It always amazes me how someone buys a house next to track and complains about the noise)
The owner, an avid racer fought to keep it as a race track,even operating it after it was officially closed at great expense.
It was one of the most scenic, dangerous, and famous tracks in the world of road racing (as opposed to the boring circular ovals in the NASCAR world).


Jeff,

I was skiing at Jackson Hole one time and we were having a few beers at the end of the day with a couple. During the conversation car racing somehow came up as a topic and I mentioned that I had a house near The Bridge. This was probably during the permitting/construction period of the golf course and the raceway was closed.

I suddenly became famous! They could not believed that I actually lived near The Bridge!! The owner had "abandoned the race car industry, was a sellout, did not fight hard enough, should have spent his life savings........" They would have fit in perfectly around here if they were golfers.  ;)

Jim Franklin

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Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2009, 09:55:11 AM »
Jeff -

Nice write up. Gregg sounds like the type of super we need at our place. We over water and punch the greens way too often IMO.
Mr Hurricane

Steve Lapper

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Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2009, 10:01:30 AM »
Mike, et.al.,

   Great snap-analysis of the course, conditioning, and topography, however your assessment that it is THE most successful private club in America(ex-ANGC) is a silly statement.  All clubs face plenty of issues these days. Wealthy ones are no exception.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 11:10:10 AM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

TEPaul

Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2009, 10:01:58 AM »
Don:

For your information, back in the old days of this website a couple of "The Bridge" threads were the longest and most adverserial this website has ever seen, perhaps only ever topped by those infamous "Merion" threads. Apparently the reason those Bridge threads back then were so long and contentious was that Patrick Mucci was so involved with them. I think some of those Bridge threads got to be about 20-30 pages long even though about half of those pages were Patrick constantly explaining how and why he is never wrong or that he is never wrong about anything.

Donal Breasail

Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2009, 10:29:40 AM »
Thank you all for your comments.

Anthony_Nysse

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Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tomas Hannell

Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2009, 01:01:25 PM »
Don,
Unless you're giving up a game at NGLA or Shinnecock to go, I wouldn't turn down the Bridge. It is a good golf course that suffers from illustrious neighbours, but as mentioned above it is kept in immaculate condition to try to make up for what it lacks. That is IMMACULATE. I've played it a few times and I'm liking it more and more. It will host the strokeplay portion of the 2010 Mid-Am, for what that's worth.
-TH

ChipOat

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Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2009, 09:12:08 PM »
Anthony,

I'm not trying to hi-jack this thread, you're entitled to your opinion and there have been many discussions here about the relative merits of the Eastern LI courses.

But, Maidstone is a JOKE???

Sorry, I can't support you anywhere close on that.

Gene Greco

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Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2009, 12:58:30 AM »
Don:

For your information, back in the old days of this website a couple of "The Bridge" threads were the longest and most adverserial this website has ever seen, perhaps only ever topped by those infamous "Merion" threads. Apparently the reason those Bridge threads back then were so long and contentious was that Patrick Mucci was so involved with them. I think some of those Bridge threads got to be about 20-30 pages long even though about half of those pages were Patrick constantly explaining how and why he is never wrong or that he is never wrong about anything.

TE:
     
     Patrick should be ready to ship his golf cart up north from his Florida home about now if I am not mistaken.  8)

     Why DOES he waste his time here with us amatooors? Afterall, he could be up on Capitol Hill. ;)

However, he did make some good points in that ill-fated thread, positive ones in defending The Bridge.

Those points were validated  further when Georgian and Harvard grad Bob Crosby came up to Long Island for a visit along with Mike Young and called me on my cell after seeing and/or playing it to say, basically, "That place is good! I was expecting a dog track from everything I've read on GCA but it is, in fact, a terrific golf course."
 
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2009, 07:08:02 AM »
Anthony,

I'm not trying to hi-jack this thread, you're entitled to your opinion and there have been many discussions here about the relative merits of the Eastern LI courses.

But, Maidstone is a JOKE???

Sorry, I can't support you anywhere close on that.

Take away #8, #9, #10 and #14 and Montauk Downs kicks ALL OVER Maidstone....Also, the worst conditioned Top 100 course imaginable. The best thing that they have going for them in their symbol, the whale.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

jeffwarne

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Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2009, 08:30:05 AM »
Anthony,
I knew you and I have different opinions on golf courses, and I appreciate your positive comments on The Bridge,but.......
I was sure chipoat had simply misread your comments, but I guess not.

Maidstone is one of my favorite golf courses anywhere-as are NGLA, Shinnecock,Sebonack, Friar's Head, Atlantic,
Throw in The Bridge, Southampton, Westhampton , Easthampton and Montauk and it's all one could ever want. (+ the occasional Goat Hill)
It's a tough neighborhood(and any course would suffer by comparison)-but certainly a great one for The Bridge to be in.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

TEPaul

Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2009, 09:56:47 AM »
"The town closed the race track-noise.
(It always amazes me how someone buys a house next to track and complains about the noise)
The owner, an avid racer fought to keep it as a race track,even operating it after it was officially closed at great expense.
It was one of the most scenic, dangerous, and famous tracks in the world of road racing (as opposed to the boring circular ovals in the NASCAR world)."


jeffwarne:

Are you dissing NASCAR My Good Man?!?   :o

I remember the old Bridgehampton race track (auto racing). As I'm sure you know that macadam road in the photo of The Bridge GC was part of the old race track (up by where the pits used to be). Are you telling me that you think NASCAR is boring because their stock cars can only run on ovals? Do you think it would be impossible for those big stockers to run hell-bent-for-leather on a road track like the Bridgehampton race track used to be??


PS:
Back in I guess the early 1960s this guy I knew from Palm Beach who was one of the best amateur race-drivers around took me out for a couple of practice laps on that old Bridgehampton road track. He had a full blown racing AC Cobra and he installed a little makeship passenger seat in it and took me for a couple of practice laps. UNBELIEVABLE stuff flying around that old road track in a car that powerful. The G forces were apparently too much for me and I threw up during the second lap.   :-[

« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 10:04:23 AM by TEPaul »

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2009, 10:48:28 AM »
Anthony,
I knew you and I have different opinions on golf courses, and I appreciate your positive comments on The Bridge,but.......
I was sure chipoat had simply misread your comments, but I guess not.

Maidstone is one of my favorite golf courses anywhere-as are NGLA, Shinnecock,Sebonack, Friar's Head, Atlantic,
Throw in The Bridge, Southampton, Westhampton , Easthampton and Montauk and it's all one could ever want. (+ the occasional Goat Hill)
It's a tough neighborhood(and any course would suffer by comparison)-but certainly a great one for The Bridge to be in.

Jeff,
  It's just not my cup of tea. There are 15 course within 50 miles Id rather play than Maidstone. Just not as good as I hoped it would be. It was my first top 100 course to play.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2009, 11:01:12 AM »
"The town closed the race track-noise.
(It always amazes me how someone buys a house next to track and complains about the noise)
The owner, an avid racer fought to keep it as a race track,even operating it after it was officially closed at great expense.
It was one of the most scenic, dangerous, and famous tracks in the world of road racing (as opposed to the boring circular ovals in the NASCAR world)."


jeffwarne:

Are you dissing NASCAR My Good Man?!?   :o

I remember the old Bridgehampton race track (auto racing). As I'm sure you know that macadam road in the photo of The Bridge GC was part of the old race track (up by where the pits used to be). Are you telling me that you think NASCAR is boring because their stock cars can only run on ovals? Do you think it would be impossible for those big stockers to run hell-bent-for-leather on a road track like the Bridgehampton race track used to be??





I'm not saying it would be impossible.
I'm saying it's a shame they don't :( :(.
It's like playing golf on a driving range as opposed to an interesting course with different holes
(how many turns the same direction can one make?:()
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island New
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2009, 11:51:26 AM »
Back in I guess the early 1960s this guy I knew from Palm Beach who was one of the best amateur race-drivers around took me out for a couple of practice laps on that old Bridgehampton road track. He had a full blown racing AC Cobra and he installed a little makeship passenger seat in it and took me for a couple of practice laps. UNBELIEVABLE stuff flying around that old road track in a car that powerful. The G forces were apparently too much for me and I threw up during the second lap.   :-[

Funny story Tom.

I had a similar experience back in 1989 or 1990.

Skip Barber had his racing school there (at The Bridge racetrack) to put on an exhibition which included a small fleet of BMW M3s to drive. I had lived in West Texas prior to moving here and did, in fact, own an M3 while I lived there. I was one of the few people who probably got to max out that engine on those deserted southwest Texas roads. Good thing I didn't hit a small animal at those speeds but I digress..

Anyway, my turn came to drive their M3 around the track and as I fancied myself  quite the driver, I tore around that track accomplishing the best time. A friend of mine had rode with us and we both talked a pretty good game while with the instructor.

Well, the instructor was very complimentary and after we finished he thought he should have a go at it.

"Driiving" around that track with him, if that's what you want to call it, was like the race to hell. We were on two wheels the whole time and when we finished I jumped out of the car and rested flat out on the infield to catch my breath while my buddy, who was in the back seat the whole time, stumbled out and heaved for several minutes.

The instructor left us with 'take that' smile on his face and I never raced on that track again.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 01:03:20 PM by Gene Greco »
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

TEPaul

Re: The Bridge Club on Long Island New
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2009, 12:14:21 PM »
"I'm not saying it would be impossible.
I'm saying it's a shame they don't  .
It's like playing golf on a driving range as opposed to an interesting course with different holes
(how many turns the same direction can one make?)"


jeffwarne:


It's not that they don't because in fact they did! Perhaps you have never been aware of this but in the early 1960s they actually had a race at the Bridgehampton road racing track with all the best NASCAR stock car drivers of that day including my everlasting early IDOL, the LATE, The GREAT Glenn "FIREBALL" Roberts!!!

It was in fact, the last time I saw him!   :'(

Do you see that macadam road in that photo of The Bridge golf course above? Fireball came bombing up the hill, past the pits, on that very same macadam and then down the long decline that led into a fairly sharp right turn.

Fireball was traveling along in his famous purple Ford at about 150mph and he had his left hand on the top of the door jamb (cruising along at that speed one-handed ;) ). He lost control of his car as he approached the right turn and proceeded to do about three 360s out in the dirt before getting his car back under control and back on the track.

But the remarkable thing was all during that three 360s spinout out in the dirt he NEVER TOOK HIS LEFT HAND OFF THAT DOOR JAMB!!!)-----he just one-handed the entire spinout.

This certainly did not go unnoticed by the large crowd lining that portion of the old race track (and now the golf course). The crowd fairly erupted in screaming applause not just as he got back in control but for every single one of the laps to come when he bombed past them.

That old lanky greaseball was the most glorious performer I have virtually ever seen! He had it all as a race driver but he was such a goofball the sport did him in not long after that. Fireball patently refused to wear the fireproofing suits that were becoming part of the safety requirements in NASCAR at that time.

When they asked him WHY he refused to wear the new fireproof suits he said because they gave him a rash.   ??? ::)

Within the year Fireball hit an unusual undulation on the inside of the track in Darlington SC, flipped his car at close to 200mph and hit a retaining wall at which point his purple Ford burst into a virtual fireball.

He was burned over 85% of his body but the tough old sumabitch fought it and hung on for an entire month before he finally succumbed to pneumonia.

What a guy and if you think he wasn't adaptable how about the time he came within a whisker of actually winning the 24 hours of LeMans which definitely ain't on no NASCAR oval!?


« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 12:18:41 PM by TEPaul »