Orange Bluffs GC (Armchair Contest w/ Comments)

[Ian_L]

Holes to look at for a quick peek: #1, #4, #7, #9

Sorry this has taken me so long.  I'll try to keep the images down to 1-2 per hole.  If anybody would like extra images of a hole I can easily make more.  I appreciate all positive and negative comments on my routing.

EDIT Yardages:

Par 71
Blue: 6463yds
White: 6010yds
Red: 5137yds


(I had not added up the yardages until just now.  I was surprised to find the back tees so short, but there is plenty of room for lengthening most holes if necessary)


Topo:


Overhead w/ color:


Judges general comments:

"Entry #7--A nice spaced out drawing that doesn't look like it was fully completed, but I figured out the routing."
 
 "7 – KBM like – good pretzel style loops - intertwined "
 
"Best Holes: Hole no. 1 – Par 4

      Hole no. 7 – Par 5

      Hole no. 12 – Par 4 (actually a par 3)

      Hole no. 15 – Par 4"

"Design 007

The design 007 presents an interesting routing that offers a few holes with good potential, but also a few holes that are questionable.  The routing has a nice flow, with tees often located near the previous greens, and there are very few awkward transitions between holes.

This is probably one of the routing that offers the best relationship with the clubhouse. The greens of holes nine and ten located conveniently close to the clubhouse, the tee of hole no. 1 is right next to the practice range and the tees of hole no. 10 are located beside the green of hole no. 9 and the clubhouse itself.  Few other designs have achieved this, and I believe it is important in today’s market.

What I find disappointing about this routing, is the lack of details, or the lack of refinement of the holes themselves.  I know that the learning curve of the software might have something to do with this, but I find that the bunker placement is often approximate, or sometimes contrary to what the land dictates. In other words, the routing presents a good potential, but the designer should work on developing the strategy of the individual holes to make the routing more interesting."

I found the last few sentences extremely helpful as I looked back at my thought process.  The individual holes this judge liked were also the ones I thought out most from a strategic standpoint.  I think I could have made a better course if I had thought about every hole in the same way.

Hole-by-hole to follow.

[Charlie Goerges]

Ian, I've been looking forward to this. I can't wait to read some of the ideas behind some of the holes. I've already chosen the hole for my "favorites" post on the other thread, we'll see if it was one of your favorites.

[Ian_L]

This is going to have to go rather slowly because it takes me a while to find/upload images.  I'll do a few holes at a time and try not to drag this out too much.

Hole 1, par 4, 355/325/273

#1 was the first hole I found, not because I wanted to start out with a water hazard, rather I liked the idea of a diagonal carry off the first tee (Ballyneal, Macrihanish...).  My version gives the average golfer all the room in the world to bail out right, but it will cost him on his second shot.  The centerline bunkers are there to toy with better golfers who will undoubtedly call them unfair, since the rest of us will aim at one and miss 95% of the time.    I thought for sure this hole would come up on another contest, since it popped out at me right away.

Topo:


View from the tee (note: I made a mistake while stamping, so the bunkers ended up being bigger than intended):


Note that the approach definitely favors a shot from the left, but badly positioned players should be able to run the ball up to the front right.

I was a bit worried that the judges wouldn't like a big lake on the first hole, and would question the long, narrow green.  But this hole was fairly well received:
"Hole no. 1 is very interesting.  I like the number of options it offers.  This is a very good start."

[Ian_L]

Hole 2, par 4, 336/320/278:

I was a bit lost on where to go after #1, because I really liked the area to the south but couldn't find a way to get good visibility without a long walk to the tee.  I really liked the peninsula green site to the southeast (using the top of the map as north), but I knew the approach would have to be a short one.  If I had the chance to do it again I would have made this hole even shorter.  The idea was to tempt players to drive the green 300 yards away by banking a shot off the knoll on the right edge.   Unfortunately, almost nobody would be able to try this shot, and the hole would be reduced to a drive-and-pitch.  I still think the green site is pretty cool, although some earth would have to be moved to make it manageable.

Topo:


From well back in the fairway:


Judge's comment:
I am not too sure that I like hole no. 2.  The semi-blind tee shot feels awkward on that piece of the property.  The green will offer a very difficult target, with the land severely sloping away from the green on three sides. It appears it should be approached from the right side of the fairway, but the fairway does not seem to offer that option with its present configuration.

In the end I think this hole was one that looked great to me on paper but just didn't work out in real life.

[Ian_L]

Hole 3, par 3, 150/132/122

It's clear I drew this hole up fairly early in the process, because I completely underestimated how uphill the tee shot was.  I estimated 6-8 feet not 20.  I really liked the green site as it offered an easy bailout to the right but had a steep drop-off to the left.  I tried to use short grass as a hazard on this hole, running the fairway all the way down to #4's fairway.

Topo (note the severe uphill tee shot):

Aerial:


Judge: Hole no. 3 will be very tough, with a severe uphill shot to a blind green.  Perhaps holes no. 2 and 3 should be configured differently?

I agree that 2 and 3 could be changed for the better.  I wish I'd read the topo more carefully on this one...

[Ian_L]

To those reading: are the topo images helpful?

Hole 4, par 5, 545/527/405

The fourth gives long hitters a chance at a big drive if they choose to hit a draw and let it kick down the hill.  This will be very difficult to execute, however, due to the bunker about 260 yards off the tee as well as the severe right-to-left slope of the fairway.  A more controlled drive would be a fade into the hill, although it will be difficult to reach the green in two from well back.  Like #1, players can bank shots off the hill on the right onto the green.

Topo:


From the tee:


I was happy to see that the strategy of the hole was understood by the judge, as I thought this was the best tee shot (strategically) on the course:

Hole no. 4 is an interesting hole. I like the location of the first fairway bunker that seems to ask the golfers to hit a good fade off the tee in order to avoid it.  However, the closer you can get to it, the easier the second shot will be. The second fairway bunker also adds interest by being in play on the third shot.  The approach will clearly be easier from the left side of the fairway, but reaching this area might be tough to achieve from the right side of the fairway.  Good work.

Again, the long, narrow green with OB left did not seem to bother him.

[Ian_L]

My original plan stayed along the edge of the property with my 5th hole, until I realized how much forest would need to be cut.  Instead, I decided to start the next hole from the top of the hill on the right.

Hole 5, par 4, 427/413/349

The first longish par 4 on the course is quite straightforward.  A drive down the right side opens up the green, which is crucial for back-left pin placements.  After stamping my bunkers, I realized the lone bunker on the hole will have little effect on approach shots (maybe visual?).

Topo:


From the tee:


Judge: I like the land on which hole no. 5 sits on.  However, the hole appears to be a little too straightforward for my taste.

This is one of the few times I don't agree with the assessment. The golfer has until now not had any simple tee shots, and I feel this gives him a good rest, while still rewarding the hitter who can place it down the right side.  The green slopes away from the fairway, creating plenty of interest for the mid-iron approach most will have.  I suppose a bunker down the right would add a bit of complication to the hole, but I kind of like it the way it is.  I would love to hear the other side of this argument, though.

[Ian_L]

Hole 6, par 4, 356/347/297


I had also drawn this hole up along the edge of the property, but after taking a second look I decided it would be fun to play up and over the ridge instead.  The idea on this shorter hole was to challenge every player off the tee.  Longer hitters can try to hit a driver and get a kick forward off the hill, but a miss will bounce even farther off line.  Golfers who shy away from the bunkers on the right may be left with a blind approach from the hollow on the left side of the fairway.  Another option is to lay up with an iron, leaving about 170 yards to the hole.  One of my favorite holes, although I think the green site is rather bland.

Topo:


View from the air:


Judge: Once again, I like the terrain on which hole no. 6 is located, but I find that the bunkering fails to add interest to the hole.

Maybe some bunkering in front of the green would provide some more interest?

[Charlie Goerges]

Hole 2, par 4, 336/320/278:

I was a bit lost on where to go after #1, because I really liked the area to the south but couldn't find a way to get good visibility without a long walk to the tee.  I really liked the peninsula green site to the southeast (using the top of the map as north), but I knew the approach would have to be a short one.  If I had the chance to do it again I would have made this hole even shorter.  The idea was to tempt players to drive the green 300 yards away by banking a shot off the knoll on the right edge.   Unfortunately, almost nobody would be able to try this shot, and the hole would be reduced to a drive-and-pitch.  I still think the green site is pretty cool, although some earth would have to be moved to make it manageable.

Topo:


From well back in the fairway:


Judge's comment:
I am not too sure that I like hole no. 2.  The semi-blind tee shot feels awkward on that piece of the property.  The green will offer a very difficult target, with the land severely sloping away from the green on three sides. It appears it should be approached from the right side of the fairway, but the fairway does not seem to offer that option with its present configuration.

In the end I think this hole was one that looked great to me on paper but just didn't work out in real life.

I have to say that I disagree with you and the judge on this hole Ian. I think it works out well because the idea is if you lay up you have a more difficult shot. But the fact is the knoll to the right of the green could be used to get a pitch shot onto the green without challenging the bunkers. In that case though, the player would have little control over getting the ball to stop exactly where he wants on the green.

Perhaps some shorter tees would be good, but too much shorter increases the blindness because there is a bit of a valley in front of the tee boxes.

[Ian_L]

I think my problem is that I'm having trouble visualizing how a shot would be played off the knoll, since the green would need to be flattened to make it manageable.  I think this would be a great time to learn to use the smoove tool so we could see the results.  Maybe I'll do that at some point...

[Ian_L]

Hole 7, par 5, 528/515/446

At this point the routing turns back on itself, making a beeline to the clubhouse to finish the first nine.  This par 5 snakes around the hill on the right, with a significant right-to-left slope calling for a fade into the hill.  Long hitters will have a chance at hitting this green in two, although they will have to negotiate the famous "esker." Leaving it just a bit short will require an awkward pitch over the feature for the third shot, while a ball landing on the downslope will likely carom into the bunker.  Most hitters will want to lay up to the right to have at least some view of the green and be able to use the esker to their advantage.

If I had the option to do this over again, I would try to make this hole shorter to tempt more players into going for the green in two, as well as providing a better layup option for shorter hitters.

Topo:


From up high:


A view from farther up the fairway:



Judge: Hole no. 7 is clearly the best hole so far.  I really like the way the hole zigzags to the top of the hill towards a green hidden behind the knoll on the left side of the fairway. The width of the fairway offers many options on the second shot and I can imagine myself having lots of fun on this hole. Great job.

[Ian_L]

Hole 8, par 3, 204/183/133

This is the best example of a connector hole at OBGC. My original plan included current holes 7 and 9, but not hole 8.  After realizing than one of my holes would likely be in the middle of a swamp, I decided to make a change, leaving this 200-yard stretch between these two holes.  I thought the hill would be a nice backdrop for a par-3, but I did not think much about the strategy of the hole.  I should have put more thought into my bunkering to make a more interesting hole.  I do like the back-right portion of the green, which would add some interest to the tee shot.

Topo:



From the air:



Judge: Hole no. 8 doesn’t do much for me.  It is located on pretty flat part of the site with bunkering that fails to inspire me.

[Ian_L]

Hole 9, par 4, 445/387/313:

In general, I found that no matter what the terrain, simple yet thought-out bunkering was usually very well appreciated by the judges.  In fact, three of the judges' favorite holes (1, 9, and 12), were over fairly flat pieces of land.  I think I realized that these holes would need good strategic value in order to be interesting at all.  In this case, I created a bit of a diagonal fairway, with a bunker exactly where many players would want to land their tee shots.  The centerline bunker is meant to prevent the longest hitters from getting a free pass on the hole.  They will have to aim down the left to stay out of trouble.  Shorter hitters, on the other hand, will try to stay as close as they can to the left bunker to have a good angle at the green.

I might consider adding another bunker down the left to prevent players from simply bombing it down the left rough without caution...

Topo:


From the air:


Judge: Hole no. 9 fits very well in its surrounding.  I like the diagonal aspect of the fairway on the tee shot and the simple but effective bunkering of the hole in general.  This is a nice finish to the first nine.

[Ian_L]

Hole 10, par 5, 531/500/437

At this point in my routing, I had two choices: proceed up to the north with my 10th hole, or take it back out west, between holes 1 and 9.  Since I had already drawn out my 18th, my only real option was to head west.  On this hole, I was hoping to make the longer hitter negotiate the far bunker in order to have a chance at the green in two.  I think I did this well, but my front bunker should have been moved to the right to make shorter hitters think about tempting the ride side for a shorter second shot.  Instead, they are left without many options except to aim at it and pray for a miss. 

I didn't want to have any hidden trouble in front of the green since it would be blind for longer approaches.  Unfortunately, this led to a rather bland approach shot with the only danger being over the green.  Agreed with the judge that the hole is not very good in its current configuration. 

Topo:


From the tee:


Judge: I am not too sure I understand the strategy of hole no. 10.  The central bunkers on the tee shot split a fairway that appears to be too narrow for the shot that is demanded, and once you reach the crest of the hill, there just isn’t anything that seems to add interest to the hole.

[Ian_L]

Hole 11, par 4, 279/258/200

I've always enjoyed drivable par 4's, but often I feel only really long hitters get the opportunity to reach the green.  That's why I've always liked the very short par 4, giving even medium-length hitters a chance at running it up to the putting surface.

To go for the green (only 255yds to the front from the back tees), players must hit over the hill, avoiding a blind bunker.  I believe only the flag would be visible from the tee.  Another option is to lay up to the left with a 200-yard shot and pitch up to the green.  If I could make a change, I would provide a bit more fairway to the left.

Topo:


From the tee:


Judge: Hole no. 11 is pretty far from hole no. 10.  I wonder why the tees are not located on top of the hill directly behind the green of hole no. 10. Not only would this help define the tee shot by providing a better view of the landing zone, I believe it would also make the hole more interesting by making the cross slope in the fairway more in play.

Interesting idea, although I think I prefer the current location, tempting players to drive the green.

[Charlie Goerges]

I do like number 11, and I agree that more courses should have very short 4s. I like the fact that even though the shot is probably blind from the tee, the player can aim over the top of the hill (or just left of it, which is the natural tendency because of the visible location of the fairway) which is a good and apparent target. Plus they'll get a bit of a turbo-boost of the back of the hill.