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Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When is it time to quit?
« Reply #125 on: March 20, 2009, 10:01:30 PM »
talent and consistency are absolutely separable.

talent makes a scratch handicap a possibility, while consistency (through practice) can make it a reality.

about 85% of golfers have no hope in hell of ever shooting in the 80s no matter how much they practice. they will be consistent from all of the practice, but consistencly mediocre.

So what?

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When is it time to quit?
« Reply #126 on: March 21, 2009, 03:17:25 AM »
talent and consistency are absolutely separable.

talent makes a scratch handicap a possibility, while consistency (through practice) can make it a reality.

about 85% of golfers have no hope in hell of ever shooting in the 80s no matter how much they practice. they will be consistent from all of the practice, but consistencly mediocre.

So what?
The "what" is that others have argued the contrary.  I'm struggling to see what purpose your "conribution" to this thread has?  Is there one?  Or is it just gratuitously contrary?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When is it time to quit?
« Reply #127 on: March 21, 2009, 11:09:37 PM »
talent and consistency are absolutely separable.

talent makes a scratch handicap a possibility, while consistency (through practice) can make it a reality.

about 85% of golfers have no hope in hell of ever shooting in the 80s no matter how much they practice. they will be consistent from all of the practice, but consistencly mediocre.

So what?
The "what" is that others have argued the contrary.  I'm struggling to see what purpose your "conribution" to this thread has?  Is there one?  Or is it just gratuitously contrary?

O.K., here it is.  Not gratuitious -- sorry if it sounded so.  The question is, "When is it time to quit?"  Honestly, and sincerely, I'm not sure how your answer relates to the question.  So, my question, "So, what?" asks for the connection between your comment and the "time to quit" question.  I can't see it, but that may be my fault.  At my age, or at any of my earlier ages, I don't have the talent (physical skills) to be a scratch player.  Moreover, I don't believe that even if I practiced as much as Tiger does I'd be scratch.  Today, at age 67 (index 22.4), I shot an 87, breaking 90 for the first time in 10 months (as best I can recall).  So, I am mediocre, skill-wise, and consistently so, but my partner for the day, as well as in business (who plays to a 7) and I won 4 bets (but were down one in trash) in our Nassau against two other business partners, and I feel real good about that.  The weather was great. We walked 18 on a hilly course.  I had a good time with friends.  I'm not quiting.  Should I?

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When is it time to quit?
« Reply #128 on: March 22, 2009, 05:12:46 AM »
Now that I agree with.  The side discussion on this thread (is talent the same as consistency) is just that, a sideshow.  It has, as you have pointed out, no relevance to quitting.

What, it seems, might have relevance is how good  a player once was.  There seems to be a line of thought that players who had been really good players might want to quit when their game left them, whilst hackers like you and me might carry on happily, not knowing what we were missing.  It sounds a sensible argument.  I'm not buying it, though, and think it  takes a sizeable dose of arrogance to give up a game (or not enjoy a game you once did) simply because you are no longer as good.  If golf (or any sport) is just about being good it seems to me that the player who feels that is missing out on much of what makes golf a great sport (and I don't think golf is unique in this).  No sport is just (or even mostly) about performance.

Last year on holiday in Elie I was fortunate enough to play in a group immediately in front of another group, consisting of four old men, each a mid-teens handicapper.  One of them was of note because he was a five times Open Champion.  This man, who had once conquered the great links courses and proved himself one of the worlds leading golfers of his generation was happy to enjoy being out on the links even if he wasn't breaking 80 on what is, in reality a short and easy course.  If Peter Thompson isn't ready to quit it strikes me as perverse that some lesser (albeit decent) golfers should quit for that reason.  Perhaps they need to understand what Thompson understands, that golf is as much about the cameraderie, the challenge and the sport as it is about pure mechanics and numbers.  Perhaps they would enjoy olf even more if they understood that.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When is it time to quit?
« Reply #129 on: March 22, 2009, 09:52:34 PM »
Mark,

Knowing Peter, I find it hard to believe he cannot break eighty. However, I daresay he might mess it up a bit but I always thought he would be the last golfer in the world to lose that wonderful contolled swing. Now I don't fel so bad..

Bob

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When is it time to quit?
« Reply #130 on: March 22, 2009, 10:11:13 PM »
Last year on holiday in Elie I was fortunate enough to play in a group immediately in front of another group, consisting of four old men, each a mid-teens handicapper.  One of them was of note because he was a five times Open Champion.  This man, who had once conquered the great links courses and proved himself one of the worlds leading golfers of his generation was happy to enjoy being out on the links even if he wasn't breaking 80 on what is, in reality a short and easy course.  If Peter Thompson isn't ready to quit it strikes me as perverse that some lesser (albeit decent) golfers should quit for that reason.  Perhaps they need to understand what Thompson understands, that golf is as much about the cameraderie, the challenge and the sport as it is about pure mechanics and numbers.  Perhaps they would enjoy golf even more if they understood that.

Mark,
That's a great story.  Thanks so much for sharing it.  Pretty much answers the question, doesn't it?

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When is it time to quit?
« Reply #131 on: March 23, 2009, 01:11:10 AM »
Mark, whether a golfer used to shoot upper 60s at his peak or upper 80s, I would think that the effect on one's ego to add 10-15 strokes to those numbers would be the same.

One could even argue it would be less of a problem for the guy who used to shoot in the 60s.  Even if he only breaks 80 on his best days he's still better than most golfers, and if he played at a course where no one knew him they couldn't tell the difference between him and someone who had shot the same score since he was 25 and somehow maintained that same skill level 50 years later.

The guy who is now shooting triple digits on all but his best days might start feeling he's not very good even compared to average golfers and shame himself into quitting.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When is it time to quit?
« Reply #132 on: March 23, 2009, 01:12:21 AM »


  Golf is "this thing of ours". Once you are in you cannot get out.



Anthony

Hotel California (Eagles).  

"You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

You never, ever leave golf.  You do check out from time to time.  For some of us, the weather seasons force it on us.  For all of us, there are times in life with different priorities, which when overcome later enable us to check back in to golf.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When is it time to quit?
« Reply #133 on: March 23, 2009, 05:09:32 AM »
Mark,

Knowing Peter, I find it hard to believe he cannot break eighty. However, I daresay he might mess it up a bit but I always thought he would be the last golfer in the world to lose that wonderful contolled swing. Now I don't fel so bad..

Bob
Bob,

I wouldn't say he couldn't break 80.  He just didn't that day.  He still looked to be enjoying his day.

Mark
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Rich Goodale

Re: When is it time to quit?
« Reply #134 on: March 23, 2009, 06:21:12 AM »
Mark

Please do not encourage Bob.  I can see him now scheming to get Peter Thomson over to MPCC to play a game of "Wolf" against two GCA.com innocents, with Peter playing off a "mid-teen" handicap.  I suspect they will split the prize money, just as the pros used to do in ye olden golden days.....

Rich