Bunker Rake Protocol

[Forrest Richardson]

Working on a small piece about bunker rake options. I have always liked the "Stanford Protocol", which is to set the rakes half-in, half-out, leaning on the lips. This way the surface area of the rake is minimal and, therefore, interfering with the ball, minimal.

What say the crowd here? If you are going to have rakes, and they are going to be left out on the course, where should they go...and how?

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

I think you're going to get a lot of different answers on this one I'm not a fan of the method you suggest.  I like to place them head toward the green (like an arrow) and put them at the preferred place of entry ie lower spots on the banks to encourage golfers from entering/exiting on the faces and screwing them up. This also indirectly helps in keeping them out of play (or well at least not in a place where a ball can be stopped by one. It also ensures they are more hidden from sight. 

Of course PVs method (of not having any) is the best.....

[Pete_Pittock]

1) Stanford Protocol, as long as the tines are on the flat
2) On floor of bunker parallel to line of play
3) Outside of bunker, as far out of play as possible, parallel to line of play

Bad  place - on slope in bunker
Worst place, in the bunker, on a slope, at extreme back (furthest from hole)
of the bunker where there is no free relief in the bunker.

[Ken McGlynn]

Working on a small piece about bunker rake options. I have always liked the "Stanford Protocol", which is to set the rakes half-in, half-out, leaning on the lips. This way the surface area of the rake is minimal and, therefore, interfering with the ball, minimal.

What say the crowd here? If you are going to have rakes, and they are going to be left out on the course, where should they go...and how?

Forrest, I was with you (half-in/half-out option) until witnessing almost on a daily basis (I caddie) shots that were interfered with by the rake.

Even though there is no mandate from the resort I work at, and it takes more time, I now leave the rake outside the bunker in the spot "least" likely to have the ball come in contact with it. Sometimes this means walking completely around the bunker to find such a spot, but I always do it, thinking I'm helping out the guy behind me. There is nothing worse than seeing a ball lodged up against a rake just inside the lip. I suppose the USGA could make this easier for us by making a rules stipulation, but I sense because of the irregular shaping and depth of bunkers they've stayed away from offering an opinion.

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[Bill Gayne]

Are there different protocols by geography? Because in GBI, I think the rakes are in the the bunkers, in the USA outside the bunkers, and I don't know about Australia.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Working on a maintenance crew of a top westchester private club I was told to place the rakes so that as a member is walking towards his ball, entering in the back of the bunker, the shaft  of the rake is pointing to him... Saves the most time, and if placed on the "outside" (as far away from the centerline as possible).

Works great for greenside bunkers and bunkers on the outside of fairways. Bunkers that cross fairways we just picked a side and dropped it!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I always thought outside the bunker out of  line of play.

[Scott Furlong]

I could be wrong on this but if the ball is resting next to a rake in the bunker and the ball moves when the rake is moved it is a penalty.  Therefore, rakes should be in the grass

[Forrest Richardson]

Mathematically, isn't the best protocol to have the rake touching the least amount of ground as possible?

GIVEN: The rake is the same basic size and will not change.

GIVEN: The ball will strike the rake in the same frequency, whether the rake is in the air (upright, or partially so) or on the ground (lying down, in or out of the bunker).

OR: Is the rake, when parallel to the ground, more prone to interfere?

GIVEN: The most "damage" to the flow of play is a rake lying on the ground as this causes the ball to often stop rolling or be deflected.

VARIABLE: The rake is perpendicular to the customary line of play, or parallel to it.

THEREFORE: A rake resting on its tinges with the shaft resting on the lip of a bunker, is mostly NOT touching the ground as it is supported by only two main points, and therefore will not interfere with a ball rolling on the ground as much as a rake lying flat, whether in the bunker or out.

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Where am I wrong?

[Carl Johnson]

Just throw it any place.  If it's in the bunker, it's part of the hazard (not techincally, necessarily, but an issue to be dealt with -- you shouldn't be in there anyway).  Outside, then it's the rub of the green.  It's just a game, after all.  Alternatively, in the bunker on odd numbered holes, and outside on even numbered holes.

[Brad Klein]

They should be left in the maintenance shed and never put out at all.

[Bill_McBride]

In Northwest Florida we leave them outside the bunker.

The worst I ever saw was Bay Hill where the bunkers were in the back of the (mandatory) carts.  I left ours in the bunker on #1. 

Once, and I don't remember where, the rakes were placed into a PVC sleeve set in the turf outside the bunker, with the tines up.  Has anyone else ever seen this?

[Stephen Britton]

I could be wrong on this but if the ball is resting next to a rake in the bunker and the ball moves when the rake is moved it is a penalty.  Therefore, rakes should be in the grass

Scott,

I'm with you, we leave rakes on the "bunker noses" or "walk-ins" so that balls won't rest against the rakes in the sand and to encourage golfers to pick up the rake as they enter the bunker. Also I think rakes look messy when they are in the sand. When rakes are in the grass around the bunker they are less noticeable.

They should be left in the maintenance shed and never put out at all.

Brad,

Can you come to my next board meeting and convince my board to remove rakes? HA HA.

[Brian_Ewen]

No Rakes .

But if we must , then the Royal St. George method is the best I have seen .

[Bruce Leland]

No Rakes .

But if we must , then the Royal St. George method is the best I have seen .

Care to expand on that Brian?

OK, I'm currently loading the RSG thread looking for photographic evidence of said method!  Found one that would appear to be the Stanford Protocol approach.....thanks.

[Brian_Ewen]

Bruce
I cant find an example either 

But last time I was there , they had holes by the bunkers where rakes were placed upright into .

I know , I know , someone is going to come on now , and tell me what a crap idea it was , and they did away with it 

[Peter Galea]

Who cares? It's a minor irritation.

After the crew sets the course up, a player will hit into the bunker,
if they're even courteous enough to halfassed rake the bunker, they will toss
the rake anywhere, in or out, without a thought.

There is no penalty in the bunker if you lift the rake and the ball moves, you simply replace the ball.

Is this another off topic topic?

[Jeff_Brauer]

I agree with Peter.  All you can do is have them "right" for the first player of the day to hit into the bunker.

I think Fazio is pushing the in ground bunker rakes (and trash repceptacles) to minimize the visual clutter.  Still, I wonder if they get replaced and if they would be so well hidden that it might slow up play?

From a play perspective, I would place them on the low side and near where a golfer would enter, trying to speed up play, and discourage entering the bunker from the top since that leaves big footprints.  I would take a chance on a ball hitting it since its happened so few times to me in my golf career.  The only thing thats happened less is my shot being affected by a catch basin!  (although both actually happened to me yesterday)

As a former maintenance crew guy, I was always taught that players should leave them fully in or out of a bunker, but not both - it saves one crew - bunker raker or bank mower - the problem of moving rakes to perform their chores.

[JohnV]

From a rules point of view, we prefer them outside the bunker away from the general line of play.  So, for a fairway bunker, they are outside the bunker in the rough opposite the fairway.  Similarly, for a greenside bunker, they are outside the bunker and away from the green.

I've unfortunately had to penalize players who walked into a bunker, picked up the rake and raked there way to their ball or for other dumb things like that.  Also, anytime a rake is in a bunker and the ball comes to rest against it, the player can end up half way up the face of the bunker after moving the rake and possible replacing the ball vs down in the bottom.

I really don't like the T version where the rake handle is on the grass with the tynes in the bunker.  It seems to be most liable for problems.

[Forrest Richardson]

John — Why do you say that a leaning rake is most liable?

[bbarkley]

When I played Cleveland Golf Links, in the UK, I recall being asked to carry a rake in our golf bag. 
 
But the most unique rake protocol I have come across was at Pacific Grove Muni.  Pretty cool contraption, however the bunker handles were wet and slimy.  I am sure the costs are pretty high as well.

[Damon Groves]

I am a half in half out kind of guy.

Some courses in the Palm Springs area have rakes that pop up out of pockets in the ground.  Not sure what I think about this but certainly gets the rakes out of the way.

[Karl Bernetich]

I was at a course where this was one of the hottest topics.  However, the traps were more likely not raked.  Shouldn't the debate be how to enforce the bunkers are raked   Then we can debate where to place the rakes after they are used.

[mike_beene]

This was a topic that developed a life of its own at our club.We went from in to out.Now leaving a rake in is like not fixing a ball mark.The second time it gets reported you may be spending a little more time with your family for a few months.

[Forrest Richardson]

We could, Karl...but, for now I am interested in the ideas on what to do with them regardless of whether they are used or not.

So far I have heard very little about the physical and mathematical factors — i.e., a rake propped up like a flagstick has significantly less impact on a moving ball than one lying on the turf or sand. Likewise, a rake partially resting on its tinges and a bunker edge has significantly less impact than a rake lying prone — in or out of a bunker, regardless of its orientation to the play of the hole.

Comments?