Does Pete Dye get a free pass?

[Chris_Clouser]

Patrick,

Dye takes pride in his involvement at Kampen on the Purdue campus, so I am thinking that one is all his.  I believe Plum Creek had a heavy hand from Tim Liddy, but I don't know for sure.  But we constantly praise people like Ross for courses that they perhaps were not heavily involved with. 

[Andy Troeger]

I'm pretty confident that Plum Creek was a collaboration with someone--either Tim Liddy or one of Pete's sons. Mystic Hills was a collaboration with PB Dye as was Kearney Hill in Kentucky (which I think is a bit overrated as well although I haven't played enough in Kentucky to say much about its context).

[Peter Ferlicca]

I was born and raised in Carmel, IN, Pete Dyes hometown, and have always look forward to playing one of his courses.  The challenges he presents are more interesting IMO than any other designer.  He grabs your full attention on every shot, and requires you to work your way around the golf course correctly.  My uncle who is the superintendent at Woodland Country Club in Carmel says that Pete still stops by all the time to give his input.  Pete Dye is a great guy and loves to build golf courses, I haven't been back lately, but from what my uncle was saying Pete offered to redesign Brookshire Golf Club for free ever since the city bought it over a couple of years ago.  And like Mike Wagner stated, nothing pleases you more than overcoming all of Pete Dyes hazards on his golf courses.

[Ian Andrew]

Chris,

I don't think he gets a free pass. He’s built enough great courses to deserve everyone’s respect. Whether you like or dislike the different stages of his career – you still can see his underlying architectural principles are still excellent regardless of what the courses look and play like.

I’m hugely influenced by his earliest work and the work that he in turn influenced through those courses. At the same time I’m completely disinterested in just about anything he did when he became heavily involved in tournament golf.

I think if anything – Pete’s polarizing – when it comes to discussions on architecture because everyone can find something the like and something they don’t – regardless of their taste.

Just a thought – free pass = earned respect.

[Matt Kardash]

Chris,

I don't think he gets a free pass. He’s built enough great courses to deserve everyone’s respect. Whether you like or dislike the different stages of his career – you still can see his underlying architectural principles are still excellent regardless of what the courses look and play like.

I’m hugely influenced by his earliest work and the work that he in turn influenced through those courses. At the same time I’m completely disinterested in just about anything he did when he became heavily involved in tournament golf.

I think if anything – Pete’s polarizing – when it comes to discussions on architecture because everyone can find something the like and something they don’t – regardless of their taste.

Just a thought – free pass = earned respect.

Agreed!
Dye is probably the most polarizing architect.  That in itself is probably why I like his best work so much. Like all forms of art, I tend to gravitate towards works that are polarizing.

[Mark_Fine]

Chris,
In that regard yes he does, but so do many other "name" architects.  I have played a few courses and have yet to find an architect that I loved every one of their golf courses (except a few of the guys who only did one  ).   

[John Nixon]

I haven't been back lately, but from what my uncle was saying Pete offered to redesign Brookshire Golf Club for free ever since the city bought it over a couple of years ago.

Interesting. I'm in Carmel as well. In fact I live across the street from Brookshire, but have yet to hear mention of Mr. Dye's offering his services. Frankly, I'd hope he would have a restoration/touchup in mind and not a redesign. For one thing, the city of Carmel can't possibily have the $ available to finance that, whether he's offering to waive his fee or not. (I suppose they could put a roundabout on a few cartpaths to fit it in on their Keystone Ave reconstruction budget....    ) Secondly, it's a very nice Diddel design - it needs some TLC, but at heart it's a fine parkland design suffering from an overabundance of trees and undergrowth, IMO.  If you've got more specifics, I'd love to hear it.

Ron Kern (he did Purgatory), who's on this site occasionally, has been involved with some work at the course in the past, perhaps he might know more. Ron, are you there?

[John Nixon]

Oh yeah, I will restate my somewhat lonely contention here that Plum Creek suffers because of it's somewhat mundane surroundings. It's not a great course, but it is certainly a challenge, and a nice course. It's other problem is that greens fees there are waaaaay too high for the area.

[archie_struthers]

 


Sure Pete Dye gets a free pass in a lot of ways , and so does everybody else with a resume or body of work as impressive as his.

Not commenting on his work just answering the query! 

If you've ever met him, as many on this site surely have, you'd be hard pressed not to be impressed with his work effort and down home charm, and he really does give 100% , unlike many of his contemporaries with similar stature in the industry.

[TEPaul]

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[archie_struthers]

 


Yeah, that's what I said , meant , elucidated , wasn't it   just without all that   Main Line jargon attached !

[TEPaul]

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[TEPaul]

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[archie_struthers]

   

TEP  ,  good stuff on the Dye's . I was fortunate enough  to caddy for him on a visit to Pine Valley back in the early 80's   He was already pretty big time, but you'd never know it from the way he treated you.

 He must have spent fifteen minutes in the left bunkers on #6   , where very few people venture except for the occasional slap hooker.  It sticks out in my mind today in that Mr. Dye was so interested in the detail of this obscure bunker complex, off the beaten track from the line of play.  He sat in there just looking and looking for an interminable period,  while I kept thinking if this went on all day I'd never get to happy hour at Gregory's that night !


Looking back , he seems similar in a lot of respects to Bill Kittleman, although less irascible (LOL)   This being said I'm just referring to the way they questioned the detail , and the why's of it.

Good stuff, hope you are hale and hearty!

[TEPaul]

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