Mmmmmmmm Camargo

[C. Squier]

One of the cool things about Camargo is that I had never played a Raynor course with such rolling terrain. 

[John Mayhugh]

I wasn't able to track down my Camargo scorecard, so yardages will be estimated from memory.  I'll be glad to correct them later.

The first hole at Camargo eases you into the round.  It's a par 4 of around 380.  The sight of the first green excites you, but OB left was also on my mind.  There's plenty of room off the tee here.


The fairway slopes down towards the green beginning around 200 yds out and then goes back uphill to the green.  I love the transition from fairway to green.  There appears to be a chance to play a run-up shot if you wanted, but not really to this hole location.


The bunker from the left side of the green.


And a look back at the first green from the second tee.


The second hole is a par 5 that is a little under 500 yds.  You hit out of a bit of a chute.  OB left was still on my mind, but it's important not to lose the tee shot to the right.  The second shot can be blocked and if you miss far enough right there is a decent chance of losing your ball in the high grass. 


This photo was taken from around 210 yds from the tee.  It's probably 230-240 to get past the bunker on the inside of the dogleg.


This was taken from just past the bunker.  Here you see how much movement there is in the fairway.  If you don't hit a long enough tee shot to get close to the green, you really need to consider the lie for your approach.  Uphill, sidehill lies are no fun even for a short wedge.  You can also see the bunkers left of the green which seem well-placed for balls that get pulled from the sidehill lie.


Here's what I saw with a 90 yard approach.


This from just short of the green.  Note the slight elevation of the green above the fairway.


Another look at the movement on the hole from behind the green.


Will post more holes tomorrow.

[John Mayhugh]

The third hole is probably the weakest of the par 4s.  It's around 300 yds with a tee shot across a valley to an uphill fairway.  Even though the hole is pretty short, the slope of the fairway makes it play longer.  There is also a steep drop for a miss to the right.


The green is barely visible from 100 yards out.


As you get closer it looks much like an island.  This from the left side of the fairway.




From behind the green you can see how uphill the hole plays.


The fourth hole is a par 4 of about 420 yards that doglegs left.  The landing area isn't easily visible from the tee.  You need to stay to the right to avoid being blocked by the trees on your approach, but from the tee it feels like you should hug the tree line as much as possible.


This is from the fairway maybe 180 yards from the green.  This is a huge green that would be very receptive to a running shot.


A ground approach needs to be on-line, though, as there are drop-offs to bunkers on each side.


This is from the back of the green looking towards the tee.  Note the slope of the green from left to right (as approached from the fairway). 


Camargo is noted for its par 3s, and the fifth is a good reason why.  It's the Eden template and played around 170.  My photos don't do this hole justice. 


The walk up to the green.  It felt like Raynor selected the par 3 greensites and routed the rest of the course around them as they are all so well placed on the land.


Here's why you don't want to go long!  Note how the green slopes towards the bunker.  I really wish I had more photos of this green complex, but just didn't have time.

[JLahrman]

Nice pics and the yardage estimates are pretty accurate.  The fifth green might be the smallest on the course, and it's not very deep.  It's a difficult target.

[PThomas]

thanks for the pics John...and keep them coming...Camargo looks like a terrific place....you can really see the tilt  on some of the greens even in the pictures!

[JLahrman]

thanks for the pics John...and keep them coming...Camargo looks like a terrific place....you can really see the tilt  :oon some of the greens even in the pictures!

'Tilt' is a great description.  Not a lot of undulation, but a great deal of tilt.  Putts look flat if you forget the tilt, but they'll break a ton on those huge greens.  There are some undulations out there though - the horseshoe on the 11th green and the two humps on the 16th green come to mind.  And there are some surprising subtle undulations on the front right of the 4th green - to me the pin in John's pictures of the 4th green is the toughest location on that hole.

[George Freeman]

Yes, thank you John for harkening to my request!  Much appreciated and keep them coming; the course looks really intriguing and awesome.

[David Whitmer]

Great pictures, John.

In my opinion, I do not think #3 is a weak hole at all. It is the shortest par 4 on the course, but I never thought it to be a pushover. For a long hitter like myself, it is very tempting to hit a driver hard and see how close to the green you can get. A subsequent wild tee shot gets you in SERIOUS trouble if you go right (down the hill) or left (behind trees with no shot at the green). There is alot of trouble around the green as well, with deep bunkers on all sides.

An iron off the tee should leave you a wedge second, and a par should be made. But oh, the temptation...

[John Mayhugh]

The sixth at Camargo is about 360 yds.  From the tee, it looks like the hole doglegs a little left but it doesn't.  There is a definite right to left slope to the fairway.


From the fairway, you can really appreciate the placement of the left bunker. Even though the hole isn't that long, it seems that using the right slope to feed the ball in wouldn't be such a bad idea.  It's more easily noticed in the aerial, but the green is angled somewhat to the fairway.


Running the ball up has it's own challenges to, as here's where a miss right ends up.  Note the uphill & right to left slopes of the green.


One last look at 6 green from 7 tee.

[JLahrman]

Thanks again John...6 has another tricky green, especially the shelf on the back part of the green.

[John Mayhugh]

Camargo's seventh is the Alps hole.  It plays around 420 yards.  There's more room in the fairway than there appears in the photo.


Here's where the fun starts.   From the fairway looking toward the green.


From just short of the end of the fairway, you can finally see the green set inside a punchbowl.  Yet no sign of......


The bunkers that await a shot that comes up just a bit short.


Looking back towards the fairway from behind the green.  I liked the small exit in the bowl.


I missed out on the thrill of coming up to the green and seeing where my well-played approach shot ended up - maybe next time.    Coming up...... the Biarritz.

[John Mayhugh]

Camargo's eight is another template hole, the Biarritz.  Yardage was just a little over 200. The green seemed to sit at a bit of an angle to the tee, making the tee shot even more of a challenge.  It would be nice if the small tree to the left just past the tees were removed.


The green is pretty level with the tee so you don't get a full sense of terror until the walk up. You certainly don't want to miss left, so naturally that is just where I ended up.  The front portion is cut a bit higher than green height and is narrower than the green surface. 


This is from the back right side of the green looking back toward the tee.  You can see the depression on the far left side.


Another photo from the back of the green.  The front landing area looks almost like green height in the photo, but it was more like fringe or slightly longer.

[JLahrman]

I actually believe the 8th plays closer to 230 from the back tees (not sure if you're giving white or blue yardages)...

I'm looking forward to the 9th, and the patio roof just a few feet off the back of the green waiting to be drilled by bladed approaches...

[John Mayhugh]

I actually believe the 8th plays closer to 230 from the back tees (not sure if you're giving white or blue yardages)...

I'm looking forward to the 9th, and the patio roof just a few feet off the back of the green waiting to be drilled by bladed approaches...

My yardage estimates are from the next to back tees.  I don't remember the color.  Total yardage from the tees I played from was around 6400, while the tips are more like 6700 or so.  Plays longer than the yardage

As for the ninth, it's a 420 yard par 4 dogleg right  This photo was from the back tee.  A well hit tee shot carries the upslope and if hit far enough gets a bit of help from a downslope toward the green.


The approach looks pretty open.


But as JAL mentioned, the back of the green isn't far from the clubhouse.  Viewed from 10 tee.

[Glenn Spencer]

I was fortunate to have a friend who was the assistant professional at Camargo when I was a club pro here in Cincinnati, so I was able to play Camargo quite often from 1997 - 2004...probably 50 times during that stretch. It's just a fantastic golf course. I agree with Billsteele that the par 3s are unbelievably good, while the two par 5s are fairly vanilla.

If you are on your game, Camargo will yield plenty of good scores. However, if you are not having a good day, you will not score well. I played there one week with a fellow club pro, and he birdied #1, #2, #13, and #17, and parred everything else for a 66. The very next week I watched him shoot a 79.

Some of the scores from the Am qualifier are the same way. 76-67. 74-66 and so forth.

I like the par 3's of course, as well, but I have always found #2 to be an excellent par 5. Couple of interesting choices from the back tee as to 3-wood or driver and how much to cut off. The second can be from a severely downhill lie to a SLIGHTLY raised green.  I like the hole a lot because you know you need to make 4 there.

17 has always just seemed like a solid par 5 to me. I don't think of them as 4 at Bethpage, but I never thought of them as a liability.

[SPDB]

I really like the 9th. The bold line is to challenge the bunkers on the right and benefit from the downslope. Great tee shot.

[John Mayhugh]

I really like the 9th. The bold line is to challenge the bunkers on the right and benefit from the downslope. Great tee shot.

I really wish I had taken a photo from the fairway looking back at the tee.  You would see how true this is.  Here's a zoomed in version of my earlier photo that at least shows the way the hole turns (although it's not as sharp as the photo makes it appear) and the downslope past the bunkers.  According to google earth it's only 220 or so to get past them, but if you get a little right you will end up with tree problems.  The more left you are, the less help you get from the slope.

[JLahrman]

Very true, the slope turns to the right following the shape of the dogleg.  Carry the top bunker and you'll get a slingshot bounce to the right.  The lefthand side of the fairway isn't bad but you'll have at least two clubs longer into the green.  On a course of large greens, the green at the 9th is one of the largest.

And let me tell you, that porch looks really close to the green when it's filled with people.  Catch a flier and you might peg the roof.

These are great pics John, I haven't been to the course in a long time.  I've got a nice wishlist of pics for the back nine.

[David Whitmer]

With the approach, I have found that the straight fairway, open front, and uphill shot makes it look like a longer shot than it is. Consequently, it seems like I usually found myself above the hole, and the 9th green is one of the most tilted (from back to front) on the course. It's a great end to the front nine.

[Chris Cupit]

A great golf course.  I sign up for Am qualifying there just to play the course.

The only quibble is with the green on hole 6.  I played one year when the greens were so fast and the hole location so poor that players were taking 6 and 7 putts due to the fact that a missed putt would roll off the green unless it got hung up on something.  Not really the courses fault but a good example of how improper set up can ruin a hole.

#6 is a bit bland as well.  Not a lot to the drive, mostly a lay-up for most players off the tee and then a wedge to a severely pitched green.  Maybe my least favorite hole.

The tee shot on #9 also seems a little lacking.  The bunkers are not given a thought by the better players and there is an infinite amunt of room left.  Obviously the farther left the longer the approach becomes but ( and I can't believe I'm suggesting this) it is almost as if there needs to be some trees or some more definition left and "through" the fairway.

Two minor nitpicks for a must see golf course.  #10 and #11 may be the coolest greens I've ever played.

[David Stamm]

John, how dramatic is the swale on the Biarritz? I've often heard that Camargo is the best collection of par 3 templates that Raynor ever did. What did you think of them as a group in comparison to others you've seen?

[John Mayhugh]

John, how dramatic is the swale on the Biarritz? I've often heard that Camargo is the best collection of par 3 templates that Raynor ever did. What did you think of them as a group in comparison to others you've seen?

The swale is 3-4 feet deep I think.  Not as deep as Yale's but very significant.

I don't have enough MacDonald/Raynor experience to compare Camargo very well. I've played Yale, The Creek, Mountain Lake, & NGLA.  Camargo's collection of par 3s is definitely the best of that group.  I'm ready to go check out more! 

[Glenn Spencer]

A great golf course.  I sign up for Am qualifying there just to play the course.

The only quibble is with the green on hole 6.  I played one year when the greens were so fast and the hole location so poor that players were taking 6 and 7 putts due to the fact that a missed putt would roll off the green unless it got hung up on something.  Not really the courses fault but a good example of how improper set up can ruin a hole.

#6 is a bit bland as well.  Not a lot to the drive, mostly a lay-up for most players off the tee and then a wedge to a severely pitched green.  Maybe my least favorite hole.

The tee shot on #9 also seems a little lacking.  The bunkers are not given a thought by the better players and there is an infinite amunt of room left.  Obviously the farther left the longer the approach becomes but ( and I can't believe I'm suggesting this) it is almost as if there needs to be some trees or some more definition left and "through" the fairway.

Two minor nitpicks for a must see golf course.  #10 and #11 may be the coolest greens I've ever played.

With you on #9, that right side is not worth messing with at all. I always felt like it was the least exciting shot on the course. With you on #10 green. Nobody else seems to, but I think this is a magical hole!! The tee shot, second, green, everything. I never understand how people skip over it so easy.

[JLahrman]

The bunker front right of the green on 10 is killer too.  It's a long difficult hole, also offers one of the few wide open views of the course as you can see 9 and 18.

[John Mayhugh]

The tenth is a 440 yard par 4 that doglegs to the left.  It's about 240 to get past the bunker on the left side. 


You really needed a good tee shot for this intimidating approach.  Whatever you do, avoid the right bunker. 


From the bunker.


But when you survive the rugged 10, your reward is stepping to the tee of the 130 yard "short" par 3 11th.   If you don't like Raynor's engineered look, it might be time to avert your eyes.  First a look from 10 green.  Makes it hard to concentrate on your putting.


And then from the 11th tee.


From a little closer.  There's a definite slope from right to left.


Here's an example of where playing and taking photos don't always mix.  I really wish I had more photos of the green complex.