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JLahrman

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #100 on: April 17, 2012, 10:39:50 PM »
Might have been a little more room right off of 12 in the 1949 aerial?

And wow on the width of the 13th and 14th fairways. All of the fairways look wider, actually.

Dean DiBerardino

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #101 on: April 17, 2012, 11:37:23 PM »
Might have been a little more room right off of 12 in the 1949 aerial?

And wow on the width of the 13th and 14th fairways. All of the fairways look wider, actually.

How about the ninth fairway? The left side of it stretches all the way over to the fairway bunker on #10 and the right side just kind of feeds in to the gully.

Will Lozier

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #102 on: April 18, 2012, 09:14:35 AM »
I wonder if Renaissance (and the club of course) ever considered restoring the back bunkers on 15 (Redan) and 17 (Road)?  Very relevant features on those two template holes.

Cheers

jonathan_becker

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #103 on: July 29, 2013, 01:27:04 PM »
I just played here this past friday for the first time and figured this was worthy of a bump.  There are some cool photos to lust over in this thread.

People post about how Camargo's par 3s are some of Raynor's best, but they also could arguably be the best that I've come across anywhere!

Aside from the threes, the two main things that stuck out for me were the elevation changes throughout the entire 18 holes and the absolutely enormous putting surfaces.  I don't think there was a single flat or relatively flat hole on the property, but nothing was too severe.  It felt like a perfect flow of just the right undulations as the holes moved over the rolling terrain.  As for the putting surfaces, other than Old Macdonald, these were probably the biggest that I've personally come across.  My imagination was all over the place thinking about other possible hole locations and how different some of the holes could play depending on where the cups are cut. 

I think that Camargo is worthy of getting on an airplane to check it out if you have an invite.  It's that good, imo.  For those of you that haven't seen John's photos, enjoy!

Brian Finn

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #104 on: July 29, 2013, 03:18:16 PM »
Thanks for bumping the thread, Mr. Becker.  Nice way to pass some time this quiet Monday.

Knowing that you have seen most of what Ohio has to offer, where would you rank Camargo among the state's best courses?

« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 03:28:11 PM by Brian Finn »
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

jonathan_becker

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #105 on: July 29, 2013, 03:32:29 PM »
Brian,

I've played all the big guns in Ohio aside from NCR.  My top courses would go....

1. The Golf Club
2. Camargo
3. Canton Brookside
4. TCCPP

Then it gets pretty messy with #'s 5-10.  I'll defend Brookside to the bitter end, but even still, with the terrain, the variety of holes and interest in the greens at Camargo, even after a single play, I'm gonna say it's a touch better than Brookside.  The Golf Club though, sits in a class by itself.  There's so much one can learn out there regarding gca that it's ridiculous.

jonathan_becker

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #106 on: July 29, 2013, 03:43:16 PM »
Brian,

One more note....I think that no course in Ohio can match the variety of putting surfaces like at Brookside (see, I told you I would defend it!), but TGC and Camargo from tee to green show a bit more interest overall.  Combining that with their respective greens, which are extremely well done in their own right puts them ahead of Brookside.  TGC wins though because, on top of everything,  it's a modern lesson in angles.

Bill Vogeney

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #107 on: July 29, 2013, 03:50:13 PM »
Thanks for the bump. After playing Shoreacres a month or so ago, I am really looking forward to playing my next Raynor. Nothing scheduled though. The course looks like a textbook for course management

Mark McKeever

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #108 on: July 29, 2013, 03:53:43 PM »
Bill, agreed.  the mowing of the greens so flush to the faces of the bunkers look textbook.  I wish more courses could do this, but I know its expensive..

MM
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Brian Finn

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #109 on: July 29, 2013, 04:00:09 PM »
Brian,

One more note....I think that no course in Ohio can match the variety of putting surfaces like at Brookside (see, I told you I would defend it!), but TGC and Camargo from tee to green show a bit more interest overall.  Combining that with their respective greens, which are extremely well done in their own right puts them ahead of Brookside.  TGC wins though because, on top of everything,  it's a modern lesson in angles.

The Golf Club is definitely the best I have seen in OH, but I still have much to see.  Hopefully Camargo comes some time soon, so I can also make a fair comparison.

I have no argument with your love of Brookside.  While I have played it only once, I thought it was spectacular.  It says a lot that you put Camargo (even slightly) ahead of Brookside.
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Philip Caccamise

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #110 on: July 29, 2013, 10:03:30 PM »
Playing here tomorrow. CAN NOT WAIT!

Connor Dougherty

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #111 on: July 29, 2013, 10:14:46 PM »
Phillip, what time is your tee time? I go off at 9:00 and I'll keep an eye out for you. It'd be great to meet another GCAer at the qualifier

I noticed several grassed over bunkers on the course (some more noticeable than others), and the aerial confirms the existence of most of them in the past. It's a shame the back bunker of the redan is gone, but I had this thought: Isn't it tougher to get up and down from what is now a grass bunker behind the redan rather than one filled with sand? That green was almost impossible to hold today, and if they roll them tonight the scores could get silly on that hole.
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

JLahrman

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #112 on: July 29, 2013, 10:38:32 PM »
Gents, do not go long on #15. Good luck tomorrow.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 11:16:45 PM by JLahrman »

Philip Caccamise

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #113 on: July 29, 2013, 10:46:42 PM »
Phillip, what time is your tee time? I go off at 9:00 and I'll keep an eye out for you. It'd be great to meet another GCAer at the qualifier

I noticed several grassed over bunkers on the course (some more noticeable than others), and the aerial confirms the existence of most of them in the past. It's a shame the back bunker of the redan is gone, but I had this thought: Isn't it tougher to get up and down from what is now a grass bunker behind the redan rather than one filled with sand? That green was almost impossible to hold today, and if they roll them tonight the scores could get silly on that hole.

9:50 off 10. Should be fun- will be nice to go into a qualifier with no expectations or pressure, which generally means playing well. A couple of my golf buddies played well but not well enough at Coldstream today though. I'll probably be wearing a red Bridgestone hat.

Connor Dougherty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #114 on: July 30, 2013, 09:22:36 PM »
I wonder if Renaissance (and the club of course) ever considered restoring the back bunkers on 15 (Redan) and 17 (Road)?  Very relevant features on those two template holes.

Cheers

Will,
I talked with the head pro while looking at a 1920's aerial of the course. He said they have no plans to restore the back bunker on the redan because that's the pathway for carts. Truth be told, it's a more difficult up and down with the long grass at the base there, as it's darn near impossible to hold the green.

Someone mentioned the 12th hole...According to the pro (and it appears to be the case in the original aerial, there was a split fairway off to the left, acting as a sort of channel hole. I do wonder how it played, because as the hole is today, it's a pretty open driving area.

The qualifier was a lot of fun today. I started off on fire, going -4 thru 8 holes, but proceeded to go +12 for the rest of the day, largely due to my start to the second 18, in which I went bogey, double, double, double. I hope to make it back someday, it's a wonderful golf course.
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

Philip Caccamise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #115 on: July 30, 2013, 10:20:52 PM »
Three things I took away from today:

(1) I can't walk 36, even with a caddie, thanks to my diabetes wearing me down

(2) Camargo is AMAZING. Easily jumps into my personal top 10 and probably top 5.

(3) It's a really small world. The head pro was following me around for a while, and Connor and I were talking to him after the rounds when I noticed a Gulph Mills plaque on the wall. Sure enough, he was an assistant when I was working there in college. He said when he saw my name it sounded familiar so he followed me for some holes to see if he remembered who I was. Pretty cool, and he's a great guy.

I played decent for 16 holes. Was 5 or 6 over in the first round with two brain-lock doubles, before the Biarritz got me for a quad. The second round was pretty much awful, I had nothing left by about the 25th hole of the day, but that's OK.  It was a great day and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Side note, my caddie mentioned when the flag is on the extreme front like it was today on the Biarritz he lays up short of the swale and hits a pitch through or over. I was OK lets give that a try in the 2nd round, and sure enough I hit 6 iron then lob wedge to 3 feet. Playing options are what make great golf courses in my opinion.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #116 on: October 13, 2015, 08:12:27 PM »
I had the good fortune to shoot this course today. You won't be seeing the results, however. I will say that it must be a lot of fun to play. At 6600 yards, length is of no importance and you can focus on being creative with the shots. The Redan and the Short are top shelf.
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Nigel Islam

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #117 on: October 13, 2015, 11:37:23 PM »
It should have been a really good day for pics Ron. The Eden and the Punchbowl/Alps are also outstanding.

David Davis

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #118 on: October 14, 2015, 05:19:33 AM »
Just returned from the US and was extremely fortunate to have had the opportunity to play Camargo as well. It was raining but the course was in fantastic shape and the little rain falling didn't seem to affect it in the least other than make the rough a bit heavy. It helped they hadn't had measurable rainfall in several weeks. Indeed the greens were literally perfect and there were some scary pin placements. I think the rolling property works extremely well with Raynor's engineered design. Maybe as good as any of his works I've seen.
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Tom Allen

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #119 on: October 15, 2018, 11:59:21 AM »
Just resurrecting this thread because I was searching for photos and commentary after having played Camargo for the first time last week.  You guys weren't kidding about the set of par threes.  Spectacular.  I don't have any comparisons, but hope to play more Raynors in the future (having read about them for years).  Was quite happy to finally get one nailed down.

Tom

Criss Titschinger

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #120 on: June 28, 2020, 08:44:43 PM »
Bumping this thread.

I'm a born/bred/reside Cincinnatian. I never thought the opportunity to play Camargo would fall into my lap. It's interesting how some things work out.

Here are my random thoughts from an excellent day of golf:

My prior Raynor experiences were Midland Hills and CC of Charleston. It was interesting to see similarities and differences between some of the holes. In hindsight, I'm glad that I had prior Raynor experience before playing Camargo, as it allowed me a much better perspective and to better appreciate of what laid ahead.

The course really just has the feel of being larger than life. Camargo is on an enormous property. Fairways are plenty wide. And the greens. Oh my, the greens. I play a course in Cincinnati with pretty small greens, so it's a complete game changer to play a course like Camargo. The 18th green at my home course is small, built for a three shot par 5. I'm certain that 3.5 of that green would fit in one of Camargo's greens. As such, just hitting the green is often not good enough.

I disagree with anyone who says the greens are boring. The contour, on the whole, is very subtle; Double Plateau excluded. Where I really had to be careful with putting was the rollout. And anyone who says a mid-capper can't appreciate architecture is just wrong. First, I saw Tiger Woods play Muirfield Village in his prime in person. I know what the best can do on a golf course. Secondly, when we reached the Redan, with a pin tucked waaaaay back left, I told my playing partners, "I'm going to play this Redan the way it's meant to". I aimed at the right side of the green, and low and behold, the ball funneled back to the center. It was a fun part of a round I'll remember for a long time.

The first revelation of the Eden and Short holes are nothing less than spiritual for a golfer. It's all you can do to focus on the hole at hand.

I always wondered why, with rolling topography Cincinnati has, why it doesn't have as many or more great courses like other Ohio cities do. I'm starting to form the opinion that perhaps the land is too severe. My home course certainly is. Hyde Park, Maketewah, and Clovernook all require walks up and down steep ridge lines. Camargo was severe in places (don't be right on #3), but also had the softer type of land movement you often see at better courses. Camargo is on a great property for golf, and took full advantage of it.

I discussed my favorite courses with my host during the round. As I told him, for what I've played, Prairie Dunes is still the best course I've played; however, it's not the one I would want to play day in/out, because I'm just not that good. Before this round, that distinction was designated to White Bear Yacht Club. After this round, I think Camargo gets the nod. Very playable for a player like me, yet the greens really make it interesting for those trying to score low.

Ryan Hillenbrand

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #121 on: June 29, 2020, 06:25:03 PM »
Great post Chris. Congrats on getting to play it

Nigel Islam

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #122 on: June 30, 2020, 09:40:04 AM »
Yes that is an awesome story Chris!   

Joe Zucker

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #123 on: December 19, 2022, 02:26:49 PM »
Adding my Camargo thoughts to an older thread.



I had the pleasure to play a few rounds at Camargo earlier this year and the place is very special.  As a native Ohioan, the parkland style always feels like home to me.  Camargo is the best one I’ve seen other than Milwaukee CC. 


With all that praise out of the way, the Redan left me underwhelmed and I struggled to appreciate it.  I played in June when the course was medium-firm, but plenty playable and saw a pin in the front, middle and back of the green.  Every shot that was hit “properly” with any kind of draw collected to the back third of the green.  In the 15-20 shots I saw onto this hole, the only way to stop the ball in the front or middle part of the green was to hit a high cut. 


I’m wondering if this is a good green/hole if the “proper” shot leaves a 50+ foot putt for most pins?  No one deserves to have easy/accessible pins, but the ball seemed to collect to the back very consistently.  Or am I thinking too simply and a draw for the right handed player is not always the correct play on a Redan?  I (naively?) assumed it was, but it wasn't great to watch your ball move far away from front/middle pins.


Tom_Doak

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Re: Mmmmmmmm Camargo
« Reply #124 on: December 19, 2022, 02:51:39 PM »
Joe:


A draw may have been the play on the Redan at North Berwick back in the early days, when 190 yards was a long way, but nowadays it is often the case that a fade works better.  So there is nothing wrong with the Redan at Camargo being that way, too.  In fact, great holes generally don't require you to play them only one way.

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