10% of Irish golf courses generate over 90% of golf tourist income

[Mike Sweeney]

Ireland has a new Links initiative. Not sure what it means, but here it is:

http://www.gui.ie/news_detail.asp?area=1&id=2000

[JESII]

Would you disagree?


What surprised me was links courses only represent 10% of all Irish golf courses.

[Tom_Doak]

I would guess that 1 or 2% of Irish courses (Ballybunion, Lahinch, Portrush) generate well over half of the tourist income.

What's the picture?

[Tom Dunne]

That's one of the newer holes at Ardglass--which, if I'm not mistaken, isn't a true links!

I've played Ardglass and love the place, but it's a heavier-soiled clifftopper in the Nefyn & District mode. 

[Rich Goodale]

This sounds very similar to Malcolm Campbell's attempt to create a Links Golf lobbying group in Scotland.  The numbers in Scotland probably also have a similar Pareto relationship (i.e. 20% of the courses create 80% of the income) but given that most of the best courses which contribute to that income (i.e. Muirfield, Old Course, Dornoch, Troon, Turnberry, etc.) are already nearly fully booked and there are very few pieces of undeveloped linksland which are both accessible and avaialble for new links golf courses, I can't really see the purpose of such initiatives.  Rather, what Ireland and Scotland ought to be doing is promoting the excellent non-links courses which they have and which are starving for visitors.

PS--it is ironic that the picture which leads the article is of a course (Ardglass) which is only partly (if that) a true links course.

[Anthony Gray]

That's one of the newer holes at Ardglass--which, if I'm not mistaken, isn't a true links!

I've played Ardglass and love the place, but it's a heavier-soiled clifftopper in the Nefyn & District mode. 

 Ardglass....Northern Ireland..my back was out and could not golf .


  Anthony

[Ally Mcintosh]

What surprised me was links courses only represent 10% of all Irish golf courses.

I am not sure about this figure... About 400 courses in Ireland altogether... Should be possible to name more than 40 links... Surely...

[Ally Mcintosh]

Another link:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/initiative-brings-links-together-1676017.html

[Rich Goodale]

What surprised me was links courses only represent 10% of all Irish golf courses.

I am not sure about this figure... About 400 courses in Ireland altogether... Should be possible to name more than 40 links... Surely...

Ally

I think that 40 might be a little high.  The number of true links courses in the world is something like 200-250, and there are a lot more in England and Scotland than there are in Ireland.

Rich

[Ally Mcintosh]

What surprised me was links courses only represent 10% of all Irish golf courses.

I am not sure about this figure... About 400 courses in Ireland altogether... Should be possible to name more than 40 links... Surely...

Ally

I think that 40 might be a little high.  The number of true links courses in the world is something like 200-250, and there are a lot more in England and Scotland than there are in Ireland.

Rich

Let us try off the top of our collective heads, working clockwise(ish) from Dublin:

Portmarnock (27)
Portmarnock Links
Royal Dublin
St. Annes
Corballis
The European
Arklow
Rosslare
Waterville
Ceann Sibeal
Dooks
Tralee
Ballybunion Old
Ballybunion Cashen
Doonbeg
Spanish Point
Lahinch Old
Lahinch Castle
Connemara (27)
Carne
Enniscrone
Co. Sligo
Donegal / Murvagh
Bundoran
Strandhill
Narin and Portnoo
Portsalon
St. Patricks
Rosapenna Old
Rosapenna Sandy Hills
Ballyliffin Old
Ballyliffin Glashedy
Castlerock
Portstewart Strand
Portstewart Old
Portrush Dunluce
Portrush Valley
Royal County Down Championship
Royal County Down Annesley
Ardglass
County Louth
Seapoint
Laytown and Bettystown
The Island

All of these (with the possible exception of Ardglass) are true links courses... That was straight out. I am positive I will have missed a few...

[David_Tepper]

Ally M. -

You can add Ballycastle, on the Causeway Coast east of Portrush. It is about 1/2 links, 1/4 parkland and 1/4 cliff top.

DT 

[Rich Goodale]

Was that 40, Ally?  If so, I probably stand corrected.  Of the courses I know, I'd not put Bundoran on that list, but I would add Mulranny and Northwest.  There may be others of yours that are not complete links, but possibly others that are.  I'd be interested in hearing from others as to their opinions.

Cheers

Rich

[Tony_Muldoon]

The following are possibilities

There's another new hotel course near Ballybunion thats part links?
Another 9 at Carne?
Cruit Island 9 holes. Links? Looks it in photo's.
And this year I believe Rosapenna will be 45 holes and although St Patricks was 36, today it's 0.
Castlerock - another 9 (the most linksy I've been told)
Portstewart Old is barely 8 holes links but there's another 18 by the Bann, anyone know how much links?  At least 9 of them used to be part of the main course until the 1970's.
Cushendall part links?
Sutton 9 holer

[Bill Gayne]

Add Castlegregory in Kerry to the list.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Rich

Thank you for continuing to make the case for a links association.

No matter how many "links" we try to pad the list with, in the scheme of things we should all be able to agree the distribution of "linksiness" is log-normal leptokurtotic Gamma.

Mark

[Michael Whitaker]

Mark - Super Gaussian?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Careful, Mike. It's a very slippery slope from there to Gaussian copula models and the next thing you'll know Rich will be pitting Malcolm against poor David X. Li, and that's just not fair.

May the Reverend Bayes give us strength...

[Michael Whitaker]

Presbyterian common sense should be more in line with Malcolm's criteria for links qualification.

[Rob Rigg]

I was so excited to see Bundoran on the list! Wonderful rounds across many summers there - how lovely. Then RG had to put the kybosh on it -  

I always thought it was a links course when I was a wee lad playing there.

Golf in Ireland is a bit unique - many of the older links courses are brilliant, many of the older established county courses (at least by American standards) are pretty weak - and these make up the majority of the 400 in country, while some of the new inland county courses are fairly solid.

Pleasurable golf can certainly be found in Ireland by playing a county "open week" tournament because it is a lot of fun - but the GCA element may leave you wanting a bit.

Seems like tourists migrate to the well known links courses while the locals support the county clubs scattered about the country.

[Rich Goodale]

Robb

I hereby officially declare my kybosh invalid.  I've only played the course once and it was on my honeymoon, so all objective judgement brain cells were functioning at a particularly confused operational level.  Even the Reverend Bayes (or "Himself" as he is called in Mark Bourgeois' world) would throw out that data point.

Rich

[Rob Rigg]

Rich,

I'm canadian, what would I know about a links course!

I remember the first time my family went there, I was about 12 years old. I woke up about 5am and it was pouring rain outside but I went out for nine anyways, got drenched and rolled in for an Irish breakfast. The staff at the hotel were looking at me like I was out of my mind while trying to figure out what exactly the cat had dragged in.

It was brilliant.

My next round out I played with an older guy who hit cross handed - it was like he was hurling! Spectacular, you don't see that kind of stuff everyday, especially on this side of the ocean.

I have never seen Bundoran rated on this site by anyone (or anywhere else for that matter) and I it has been almost 20 years since I was back there, but some courses just stick in your mind in a really special way.

I think my parents went there on their honeymoon as well - go figure.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think Bundoran is a genuine links course... flat but genuine... It will have to stay on... Mulranny and Northwest are two I forgot - Thanks Rich

Tony, I didn't realise Cruit Island was so linksy but looking at the website, there seems no doubt.

David, I'll add Ballycastle if more than 50% of the land is linkslike (Arklow would fall in to this links / park category as well)

Tony, Sutton - How could I forget?... Other than that, I only split out courses at the same club if I felt they had their own seperate character... some of the 27 hole facilities feel like the extra nine is a relief course... A bit of an arbitrary split I admit, based on my own judgement.

Here we go then:

1. Portmarnock (27)
2. Portmarnock Links
3. Sutton
4. Royal Dublin
5. St. Annes
6. Corballis
7. The European
8. Arklow
9. Rosslare
10. Waterville
11. Ceann Sibeal
12. Dooks
13. Tralee
14. Ballybunion Old
15. Ballybunion Cashen
16. Doonbeg
17. Spanish Point
18. Lahinch Old
19. Lahinch Castle
20. Connemara (27)
21. Mulranny
22. Carne
23. Enniscrone
24. Co. Sligo
25. Donegal / Murvagh
26. Bundoran
27. Strandhill
28. Narin and Portnoo
29. Northwest
30. Portsalon
31. St. Patricks
32. Cruit Island
33. Rosapenna Old
34. Rosapenna Sandy Hills
35. Ballyliffin Old
36. Ballyliffin Glashedy
37. Castlerock
38. Portstewart Strand
39. Portstewart Old
40. Portrush Dunluce
41. Portrush Valley
42. BallyCastle
43. Royal County Down Championship
44. Royal County Down Annesley
45. Ardglass
46. County Louth
47. Seapoint
48. Laytown and Bettystown
49. The Island

All that said, maybe there are more than 400 courses - It could be 400 clubs... 10% is probably not too far off the mark after all...

[Jack_Marr]

Here's a thread discussing something similar from a good while ago - http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,15507.0.html

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Althought this is an old topic, I don't see the point in starting a new topic, as what I have to say is quite short.

Ally:

A few glaring omissions on your links list (all 4 are in Donegal).

Dunfanaghy (18)
Gweedore (9)
Buncrana (9)
Otway(9)

I have played Otway a few times and I would never consider it parkland. It has a links feel to it, and the turf is sandy and firm. It's a links course in my opinion. Buncrana is a links course with a very long history.

I cannot comment on Greencastle Golf Club, as I have not played it, but I suspect some holes are links like.

Dónal.

[Bill_McBride]

That's one of the newer holes at Ardglass--which, if I'm not mistaken, isn't a true links!

I've played Ardglass and love the place, but it's a heavier-soiled clifftopper in the Nefyn & District mode. 

Tom, is that the par 3 where you turn for home?

I didn't even know that tee was there?  That's a much better looking hole than from the shorter tees to the left.

Ardglass was fun but disappointing at the same time - maybe 6 really good holes, 6 okay holes, 6 mediocre holes.

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