Is Golf Indeed Dying?

[Charlie Goerges]

Tom, I'll say that I want golf to be popular. I want it to be popular because It is a most worthwhile activity that enriches the lives of those who play it. My humanitarian nature therefore causes me to want anyone with interest to be able to play it.

Unfortunately, there's the rub. If it's very popular then the courses are crowded which is not conducive to enjoyable golf.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that we actually need more courses. But courses that cost so much less to build, maintain, and operate than the average currently seems to be, that a drastically reduced total number of rounds per course wouldn't bankrupt them. In fact the reduced number of rounds would actually make it cheaper for them to operate. Obviously this would be a very different kind of course. It would be important that most of these weren't pitch and putts or Par 3 courses, but rather rustic, fun "long" courses.

[Brian_Sleeman]

Along those lines, Charlie, are people playing fewer but more expensive rounds?  That is, are people saving up a little more so that each round is at a higher end daily fee place rather than the muni or mom and pop place down the street?

[Charlie Goerges]

Admittedly Brian, that's basically what I do. But my reasoning is twofold. First the more expensive course is less crowded, thus upping the enjoyment factor. Second, at least around here, they are the more fun, interesting, and challenging courses. The close local public course where I live is busy and very flat/uninteresting. I've found that I'd rather play 9 holes at twilight for $35 on a fun course than make a tee time (for whenever I can get a time) to play 18 for $45 on a boring course.

[Roger Wolfe]

Now,it seems like everything else is more important than just playing.Is my course ranked in the top 100,is there a weed in my fairway,are my club's towels scented,etc.

Somehow,the game of golf got hijacked by people who don't understand what's really important.Maybe this economic situation will weed out the poseurs and leave the game for those who have a passion for playing it.

Having interviewed hundreds of prospective members at our club and having observed the way GM jobs are advertised through the CMAA and search firms, I believe the focus is turning more and more to golf and family.  The golf course and practice facility bring the men in the door and gets them interested... the swimming pool is the true deal closer.  We do not have tennis and we do not have fitness and we have a modest clubhouse and F&B operation; however our members also do not have to pay for those amenities. 

A true golfers' club is a wonderful thing, but sometimes its tough for a husband to convince a wife to plunk down $22k and $300 per month for something that will take him away even MORE hours every week.  Using a public swimming facility is either overcrowded or very expensive.  Plus operating a pool is only a 3 month expense.  The day you have to pay to walk down the street or pay to play tennis at the local park is the day fitness and tennis truly become "deal closers."

The trouble is that so few clubs offer this limited level of service.  You either pay by the round and subject yourself to the masses... or you pay for not only the the golf and swimming but the tennis, fitness, fine dining and the "armies" necessary to service them.  The "niche" of a golf club with a pool and a bar/grill to get a good meal is one I think will continue to expand.

[jeffwarne]

I don't think golf is dying.

What may be dying is everything which came to define golf for too many non-golfers.

You were with friends "competing" at something else.You never worried about how good or bad the golf course was-just as you never worried if the baseball diamond has rocks on the infield.Maybe it was blissful ignorance,but all that really mattered was the PLAYING.

Now,it seems like everything else is more important than just playing.Is my course ranked in the top 100,is there a weed in my fairway,are my club's towels scented,etc.

Somehow,the game of golf got hijacked by people who don't understand what's really important.Maybe this economic situation will weed out the poseurs and leave the game for those who have a passion for playing it.

JM,
Great post.
Played a 9 hole muni today,punched greens, 3 temporaries,
course was packed,pace was brisk
didn't hear a complaint all day.

[Michael Blake]

I have some friends, married with younger kids who have quit in the last few years because:

1) takes too long to play
2) costs too much

They've replaced golf with tennis.  They find it's always challenging and very competitive, takes up much less time, their kids enjoy it, and it's free...unless they've joined a club, which a couple of them have.

[TEPaul]

Like a lot of things today and perhaps in the next few years golf will probably go into a downturn but golf isn't DYING. Golf is not going to die unless our world goes up in smoke which is probably more likely than golf dying as long as the world is still intact. 

[David Druzisky]

As a golfer I would be pleased with how things are going.  Prices down and less crowds.

As a designer of golf courses I am concerned.  Very concerned.  Not that golf is dead but that the business of golf is on life support.  Then again, the business of golf got far too big for it's own britches with a bunch of additional crap that got piled on in the justification of "providing a superior experience".  All the outdoor services, extravagant clubhouses, over the top conditioning, and "signature designs" did very little to add to the actual game.  As all of that drys up and goes away it will take everything else around it down for a while.  The bandwagon players are jumping off the wagon.

A bunch of these courses in jeopardy of closing or have closed would have been fine if they were just golf and if monies spent on the supporting facilities and amenities were kept reasonable.  On most it was the land and real estate speculation that brought down the course.  We all know that in most cases all the big clubhouses, high operational budgets, inflated values on design fees and BS marketing, and added bells and whistles should have been line itemed strictly to the overall development and related real estate as the golf could never carry that load. Time ran out on the lie.

Combine all of that with the overall "new world order" thing and we look to be in a big state of evolution.  Golf is only now being realized in many countries and there is considerable growth potential for the game there.  Lets just hope they don't use our most recent years of examples of how to go about it with signature designs, crazy budgets, and basing everything on real estate speculation.  

DbD

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tom,
I'm in the land of schlocky golf (MyrtleBeach area) and the golf courses are busy.

[Peter Pallotta]

Huck -

Golf is like that girl in university - dark hair, pale skin, had the sniffles all winter long.  If you caught a look of her past all the kleenex, you saw that she was very pretty; if you talked to her when she wasn't writing poetry, you could tell that she was very smart. You'd figure that she'd probably get consumption sooner or later, and that her parents would have to send her to Italy or Arizona for the cilmate, where she'd live alone with the cats and write tone poems all in lower case. But instead she ends up getting married and having two children and being a great wife while still managing to write a novel on the side. And she stayed as pretty and smart as ever (but still got the sniffles all winter long). I was a sucker for that kind of girl, crazy about her. Will the next generation of university students find her so irresistable, and stick around long enough to discover all her charms? They'll HAVE TO, no? They'd be crazy NOT TO, no?

Peter   

[Mike Sweeney]

I've said precisely that before.  If golf risks losing a lifelong hardcore borderline junkie like me to all but the occasional round (if that), I have to wonder how its long-term outlook could possibly be rosy.

So is golf really dying? If so, why?

The Front Four at Stowe, Snowbird/Alta, Granite Chief at Squaw, Ajax, Back Bowls at Vail........ I was a hard core skier for years. I was Best Man at my main ski buddies wedding and now I probably ski maybe one or two days a year to make sure my kids learn how. The winter trips have been replaced with trips to Florida and elsewhere for golf and weekends as a squash coach for my son. There is lots of stuff to do out there.

My wife has now done more triathlons than I have, so this year I head back this summer to Southampton not for golf but for the Mighty Hamptons Triathlon which I have not done for probably 8 years.

A friend of GCA.com had a mild heart attack last week, and he just emailed me yesterday to schedule a May 1st golf date.  As the Philosopher from The University of Notre Dame says, "its not a dress rehearsal."

[Mike_Cirba]

Huck -

Golf is like that girl in university - dark hair, pale skin, had the sniffles all winter long.  If you caught a look of her past all the kleenex, you saw that she was very pretty; if you talked to her when she wasn't writing poetry, you could tell that she was very smart. You'd figure that she'd probably get consumption sooner or later, and that her parents would have to send her to Italy or Arizona for the cilmate, where she'd live alone with the cats and write tone poems all in lower case. But instead she ends up getting married and having two children and being a great wife while still managing to write a novel on the side. And she stayed as pretty and smart as ever (but still got the sniffles all winter long). I was a sucker for that kind of girl, crazy about her. Will the next generation of university students find her so irresistable, and stick around long enough to discover all her charms? They'll HAVE TO, no? They'd be crazy NOT TO, no?

Peter   

Peter,

A lovely analogy, but sometimes I fear that it's simple good taste that's indeed dying.

[Ronald Montesano]

From beyond the grave, Alistair Cooke contributes the following:
"While there is yet time, let us turn these pages and read and weep.  Here are the power and the glory, the fine flower of many landscapes preserved in the microcosm of the golf course.  Here are the masterpieces carved out in the eighty years that saw the dawn, the high noon  and possible the twilight of golf architecture.  This book may well be, whether the authors knew it or not, a memorial tribute to the game before Nader's Raiders, followed by the Supreme Court, decide that the private ownership of land for the diversion of the few is a monstrous denial of the Constitution under the Fourteenth ("the equal protection of the laws") Amendment.

When that happens, old men will furtively beckon to their sons and, like fugitives from the guillotine recalling the elegant orgies at the court of Louis XV, will recite the glories of Portmarnock and Merion, of the Road Hole at St Andrews, the 6th at Seminole, the 18th at Pebble Beach.  They will take out this volume from its secret hiding place and they will say:  "There is no question, son, that these were unholy places in an evil age.  Unfortunately, I had a whale of a time."

These pages, this book are The World Atlas of Golf that I picked up at Oracle Junction in Kenmore, New York.  As I opened the pages, I was summoned to the stank old easy chair in the Amherst Central high school library, where I first got hooked on the game.  This was the book that kept me from furthering my studies. Welcome home, old friend.

Whoops, forgot about the rest of you.  As you can see, we feared its demise in the 1970s and, instead, toughed out the 1980s and were blessed with the 1990s and 2000s.  There is hope, Dave/Shivas and the rest of you.  Here's to a whale of a time on everyone's Reverse Jans.

[Paul Stephenson]

Here's my analogy:

Golf is like a guy, who used to be fit and trim and in great health, who got real fat real quickly.  Now, that guy, if he stays real fat will face certain death.  But, if he starts taking care of himself again, eats the right foods, exercises, etc, he can again become healthy, and live a long and prosperous life.  

My God that's me.  I'm starting to take care of myself again, and I think golf has started to as well.

Tiger and First Tee are bringing in demographics that were not even considered 20 odd years ago.  If golf can get affordable again for these new demographics then all will be fine.

It's the CC for a day that may be fat and still eating 20oz t-bones.

[Gary Daughters]

Lately when I play golf my head keeps asking:  "What am I doing here?"

That's never happened.

[Kirk Gill]

How big golf will be is the question, isn't it?

But Kirk, why does that matter?

I really could care less if golf is popular, so long as I can play... and have friends to play with.

So my question is more will my venues disappear and friends as well?

I seem to be losing one in Schmidt, and that is kinda scary.  But again I prefer to think he's going through a phase.  Or I hope so.

TH

Tom, I may naive but I feel like it's likely that golf will continue to be big enough for me to get to play. But there's a lot of guys on here whose posts I read and whose expertise I value that may need for golf to be bigger than I need it to be for them to stay in the business of it. Who knows who golf is going to lose, and whether it will be by choice or not?

All I was really trying to say is, if I was to put it another way, that golf isn't dying, from my perspective, but going forward the question is how healthy the patient is going to be.

[Matt Day]

public (municipal) golf in Australia doing very well, were up about 7% on the course and driving range at the moment. Other courses I speak to regulary are all up on last year.

[Kevin_Reilly]

I'm as nuts about the game as I was 10+ years ago.  I don't watch as much televised golf, but that's about the only place where my obsession has lessened.  This past Saturday, I teed off at 6:25 am and played 15 holes with my regular group.  The rest of the weekend included two lacrosse games, a basketball game, two baseball games and one baseball practice.  (I have 3 boys who play sports...that's a standard weekend for me).  Plus a couple of honey-do's.  If I can squeeze in 15 holes, then anyone can.

[Greg Murphy]

. . . we actually need more . . . rustic, fun "long" courses.

Hear Hear. And not necessarily of the eighteen hole variety.

[Sean_A]

DD mentioned that the business of golf is dying not the game.  I would agree with this, but I don't even think the business end of the game will die - people are too concerned with keeping up with the Jones for that to ever completely happen.  Honestly, other than the harsh reality of job losses, I think this slap in the mouth may be good for golf, business and all.  The only way for addicted golfers to ween off the machine is to have their money taken off them (or the threat of it) for whatever reason.  Its almost like a bidding war that you see in European football.  The richest clubs (read golfers) paying crazy amounts to earn the services of a player (read to play a course or buy a driver etc) just drives the prices up across the board creating ever larger gaps between the washed and unwashed - which is one of the main criticisms leveled against golf - its elitist. 

Ciao

[Mike Sweeney]

Okay we have a few Drama Queens here at GCA.com but here is some perspective:

“The economy will likely drop the number of golf rounds over all in 2009 by 3 to 5 percent,” Beditz, of the golf foundation, said. “Still, golf, which is a $400 billion industry, is doing pretty well. Detroit wishes car sales were only off 3 to 5 percent.”



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/18/sports/golf/18golf.html?pagewanted=1&ref=sports

[cary lichtenstein]

Not dying, but shrinking as its customer base ages.

[Scott Warren]

Here's my analogy:

Golf is like a guy, who used to be fit and trim and in great health, who got real fat real quickly.  Now, that guy, if he stays real fat will face certain death.  But, if he starts taking care of himself again, eats the right foods, exercises, etc, he can again become healthy, and live a long and prosperous life.  

Huck -

Golf is like that girl in university - dark hair, pale skin, had the sniffles all winter long.  If you caught a look of her past all the kleenex, you saw that she was very pretty; if you talked to her when she wasn't writing poetry, you could tell that she was very smart. You'd figure that she'd probably get consumption sooner or later, and that her parents would have to send her to Italy or Arizona for the cilmate, where she'd live alone with the cats and write tone poems all in lower case. But instead she ends up getting married and having two children and being a great wife while still managing to write a novel on the side. And she stayed as pretty and smart as ever (but still got the sniffles all winter long). I was a sucker for that kind of girl, crazy about her. Will the next generation of university students find her so irresistable, and stick around long enough to discover all her charms? They'll HAVE TO, no? They'd be crazy NOT TO, no?

Peter   

It's analogy city around here

[PCCraig]

agree it is usually too expensive...but can one build a decent quality course in an area like Chicago these days , charge only $35 or so to play, and make a profit?

if not, whats the solution..or isn't there

Paul-

I think even with today's land expenses in Chicago it would be tough to build a course and keep the green fees somewhat reasonable.

However in Chicago the best question is how many existing courses would still be able to operate if their greens fees are reduced to $35. Their play would increase but it would be interesting to see their overall margins after the fact. It is a shame when you see expensive courses with no twilight rates designed to keep play low.

[Anthony Gray]

Here's my analogy:

Golf is like a guy, who used to be fit and trim and in great health, who got real fat real quickly.  Now, that guy, if he stays real fat will face certain death.  But, if he starts taking care of himself again, eats the right foods, exercises, etc, he can again become healthy, and live a long and prosperous life.  

  Good analogy Greg. Golf went through the Tiger explosion and is now going through a little correction. Golf will be around forever. They don't call trhat course in St Andrews old for nothing.


   Anthony