When is it time to quit?

[RJ_Daley]

I hope to also follow Pat's prescription.  I've played through normal sciatica pain ever worsening for about 6-7 years, and the pain to thrill ratio was acceptable with a little Ibuprophen, or muscle relaxers.  But, now my back has gone so bad that I can't make a golf swing without serious crumble-up pain.  I can only stand and putt or maybe chip for a few minutes.  But, I have taken measures to become eligible to get a new diagnosis and hopefully fixed after a 6 month waiting period which will be Aug 1.  I intend to maintain my men's club membership, and show up an hour or so before the regular guys are finishing, where I'll just chip and putt around whatever I can - because when they get in from the round, I CAN STILL JOIN THEM AND DRINK THE BEER AND BLATHER WITH NO PROBLEMA! 

I'm just washing out play for '09 and have hope that I will return in '10.

But, as Bob contemplates, there is a limit.  One man's psychological makeup and personal expectations for playing the game at a certain competent level may be the deciding factor.  Another man's barrier may not be the skill set so much as the pain factor or however there is a physical limitation.  Yet, we see some of these vets playing without limbs.  The bar is set quite differently for each of us.  But, I think we know it when we finally see it. 

[Bob_Huntley]

Gentlemen,

Let us have no more talk of capitulation to old age and infirmities, today I went to my golfing guru, Ben Doyle of the Golfing Machine cult and he gave me the secret handshake and I hit some shots that reminded me of a foregone age.

I am ready to take on the world and with all of the sage advice from our cabal, I am willing to take to the course on the morrow and play once more.

David Schmidt, don't take to the Cool-Aide just yet, give it another try.

Bob

[Richard Boult]

So, when do I think it's time to quit golf? When we stop learning.

Mike, thanks for your story and for sharing what I think is the best answer so far. And if you're willing to keep learning, then it's only time to quit when the game has nothing more to teach you. I don't think that day ever comes.

[Patrick_Mucci]

RJ,

I dont want to bore you with the aches, pains and limitations that continue to impede my efforts on the golf course.  Suffice it to say that they're considerable.

However, great architecture should accomodate diminished abilities.

Where medical limitations and creative architecture merge to form an enjoyable challenge is an interesting yet elusive junction.

I view certain courses, especially those absent heroic carries with wide fairways, as accomodating, since they allow the golfer alternate routes.

Not just routes as in playing corridors but in terms of limited aerial requirements.  Low hitting, "rollers" of the ball should be accomodated by great architecture.

I see it at Maidstone, NGLA and other courses.
Pine Tree, as much as I like the golf course, doesn't really allow for "rollers" of the ball as you approach the green.  Eventually, loft will be required to breach the bunkering surrounding most greens.   The approaches to the greens at GCGC are ideal, although the carries off the tee of 100 or more yards might prove taxing to some.

I've also seen some very elderly people playing golf the courses I mentioned, hence I believe that they continue to enjoy the challenge presented.

So, perhaps our ability to remain attracted to the game is a function of the course we play.

Some courses may be too demanding or too limited in terms of the architectural alternatives presented.  And, if that the case, I can see where frustration or reality might cause one to "abandon ship"

My recollection was that Wild Horse might be the type of course where a "roller" would thrive and enjoy the challenge.  What are your thoughts on the course's ability to accomodate the inferior golfer ?

[Pat Burke]

When I quit competitive golf, it was surprisingly easy.  I played a couple years too many after my injury, and had plenty of statistics to prove I was making the correct decision
I now have little desire to play, other than the occasional classic course.  Great courses will get me interested, but my game does not.  After a lifetime of playing competitive golf, there is little fun for me in playing at a much lower level than I was able to in days gone by.
No big deal really, just what it is, if it isn't fun any more, not much point.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Pat Burke-

I gotta ask, maybe you can defend--

But if golf just isn't that fun for you anymore--then why are you on an internet chat room looking to talk or read about golf? I would venture to guess you still have a strong interest in it

[Doug Siebert]

I played much worse now than I did when I was a junior - but I enjoy playing much more now than I ever did before.

The answer is Never - if your having fun.

I feel very sorry for anyone if their enjoyment is dictated by what they shoot.

This pretty much sums it up.  Patrick Mucci had some really posts about his experiences a few years ago when his strength and golfing ability were greatly diminished, and he enjoyed the challenge just as much as when he was at the top of his game.

I've mentioned several times that I don't play with minimizing my score as the primary goal, but instead try to maximize my fun.  So in some cases I may take inadvisable chances, or play a shot in a way that's likely to produce a worse result just because something tells me it would be more interesting to play it that way.

I think that attitude is pretty much tailor made to never have to quit golf unless it became physically too painful, or I found something else more fun I'd rather do with my time.  I guess in some sense that's already true, since it seems I play a lot less often than most in GCA.  But some of the things I do today advancing age and reduced strength simply won't allow me to do when I'm 80, so golf become more important to me as I age and I have to drop other activities.

I really don't think that advancing age and reduced strength alone will reduce the fun I have playing golf.  Sure, I enjoy that I hit the ball a long way today and have the opportunity to attack a hole in the same way the pros do (albeit with a much lower percentage of success due to the fact that they are way better than I am)

But as I get older and find that my distances are more comparable to the senior tour golfers, then the LPGA golfers, and on down the list, I'll adjust.  I can move up a set at a time until I reach the women's tees and can go forward no further, or resign myself to taking more than a regulation number of strokes to reach the green, or just cheat and use some really illegal equipment

[Rich Goodale]

An old friend wrote this many years ago.

“No golfer finds true peace until he places his clubs in the attic for the very last time!”

When will you know it's time to put the clubs away?


This is an interesting article on Henry Longhurst.

http://www.pyecombegolfclub.com/HenryLonghurst.htm


Bob

Bob

My first thought was "When it is too difficult to get the clubs out of the attic," but one forgets about one's valet....

Rich

PS--for those putting woes I have only two words:  The CLAW(tm)!"

rfg

[Anthony Gray]

  In life you always need something to look foward to. Great pleasure can be had just being on the course dispite your golfing ability.

  I am looking foward to golfing courses I've never golfed before. It is something to live for. And watching my daughter them also. I will never quit I have too much to look foward to.

  Anthony

[Phil Benedict]

I haven't exactly quit but have decided to de-emphasize golf at least for this year by taking a leave from my club.  The decision is  based on cost and frustration with my game.  I doubt I'll play more than a handful of times given the inconvenience of public course golf in New York - maybe some business and guest golf.

I'm interested to see how I feel about this decision once the local golf season begins.  What will I do with the time?  Where will I find a substitute passion?  My tentative answers are to spend more time with my wife doing day trips and the like (not a bad thing for anyone to do); getting in better shape, which takes time; and walking the dogs twice a day on weekends.  They'll be happy to hear that.

Maybe a diet of 'subsistance golf' will make me miserable and my wife will kick me out of the house.

[Charlie Goerges]

I like that term Phil, 'subsistence golf'. I feel like I'm already on subsistence golf.

[Lou_Duran]

DSchmidt,

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective.

Scoring is merely a function of ability, the great "game" of golf isn't about ability, it's about overcoming a lack of ability.  
Therein lies the exquisite challenge.

The ultimate challenge is to overcome your lack of ability.

To produce shots and scores that are beyond your ability, that's the fun and excitement of the game.

Everyone makes a two inch putt.
Where's the fun and excitement in that ?
There is none.

Golf is an inherent challenge presented by the impediments crafted by the architect and nature that constitute the playing field on which we aspire to overcome our lack of ability.

It's facing and accomplishing shots beyond our ability that thrills us, and, even if we fail, attempting those shots provides a thrill of its own.

If, instead of you "giving up" the game, I deprived you of playing it, wouldn't you want to play it all the more ?

So, if I or forces beyond your control deprived you of the abilities required to produce superior shots and scores, wouldn't you still clamor to execute those shots and scores beyond your newly diminished abilities ?

I would .... and did.

I loved the game knowing that I couldn't hit my best tee shot 180 yards.
I loved the game knowing that I couldn't get the ball decently or sufficiently airborne.
I loved the game because new or more influencial impediments presented themselves to me.

My abilities were diminished and substantially limited, yet, I loved out thinking the architect and nature.  I loved executing alternate plans from tee to green.
I loved bunker shots, chips and pitches, my new allies.
I loved tacking my way around the golf course attempting to produce shots and scores that were well beyond my ability.
Many times I succeeded, other times I failed.  
If I succeeded, I raised my expectations.  
If I failed, I maintained my expectations relative to my abilities.

If the game was fun for you when you were eight years old and had limited ability, why wouldn't it be fun for you at eighty eight years old with limited ability, but, you'd be armed with a cannier, craftier mind borne of experience ?

Golf is a game for the ages.
It's a game centered in the heart, mind and soul, not the thighs, wrists and bicepts.

Patrick Mucci,

Is this original material?  One of the more profound pieces I've read on this site.  Great stuff.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Lou,

It's original and it was spontaneous.

One other aspect I forgot to mention was the internal challenge of coming up with a variety of ways to get your ball from point A to point B.

Using different clubs with different trajectories is a game within a game.

It's a lot of fun.

Years ago, Joe McBride showed me a number of shots that I hadn't considered when approaching or recovering to # 12 green at NGLA.

My dad also showed me how to be inventive at crafting what seemed like unusual shots that were actually high percentage shots once the golfer understood, became comfortable with and practiced them.

One of the joys of the game is using your imagination to craft an unusual shot, and then, executing it.

There's no joy or excitement involved in knocking in a two inch putt.
The thrill is in pulling off an unusual shot

[Tom Huckaby]

Gentlemen,

Let us have no more talk of capitulation to old age and infirmities, today I went to my golfing guru, Ben Doyle of the Golfing Machine cult and he gave me the secret handshake and I hit some shots that reminded me of a foregone age.

I am ready to take on the world and with all of the sage advice from our cabal, I am willing to take to the course on the morrow and play once more.

David Schmidt, don't take to the Cool-Aide just yet, give it another try.

Bob

I expected to read nothing less than this when I logged in this morning.

Well done, Bob.

And I say this with zero regret:  Patrick Mucci is wise.... about this issue.   

[Tom Huckaby]

Wow, you are depressing, Schmidt.

And you know where your logic fails here?

You make the foolish assumption that playing golf is a logical excercise to begin with.

You remain smart, very smart.  In the end you are correct about all of this.  Golf is stupid.  One never does win the game.  One has finite abilities which cannot be overcome.  It's all true.  In the greatest scheme of things it is of course a complete waste of time; we should all rather be playing the erhu, looking at leaves, curing cancer, or writing poetry.

But Pat remains inspired, very inspired.  Because once one decides to put logic aside and take on this game... all things become possible.

I'll take him this time.  And you of all people know how it pains me to say that.

 

[Dan Kelly]

Bob --

I couldn't disagree more with your friend.

True peace? That's true depression.

I've been there. Done that. Hope never to do it again.

I hope that if I'm lucky enough to be a doddering old fool, incapable of smashing the ball a hundred yards, you'll still be able to find me out by the practice green, puttering around.

Dan

[Pat Burke]

Pat Burke-

I gotta ask, maybe you can defend--

But if golf just isn't that fun for you anymore--then why are you on an internet chat room looking to talk or read about golf? I would venture to guess you still have a strong interest in it

Playing golf is not fun.  I was answering the question about time to quit playing.  I love teaching, especially the kids in our program, and I have loved golf course architecture ever since I missed my teachers notes while scribbling golf courses in to my math notebooks!

[Lou_Duran]

David Schmidt,

Of course you are right regarding "ability" in the literal sense.  However, in the context of golf and the way most people approach and play the game, I think Mr. Mucci's referenced comments are insightful and particularly relevant.

I got "into" golf as a result of going to Ohio State and having the Scarlet course available to me for less than $100 per year.  Having Tom Weiskopf and Ed Sneed around to observe closely- I've practiced next to them on several occasions- served to reinforce the physicality of the sport with a beautiful, delicate rythm and tempo that I hadn't seen in other sports.

Though Nicklaus (who I saw in Columbus numerous times but never hitting a ball at OSU) spoke of the thinking side of the game and his mental toughness and discipline were frequently cited for his outstanding performance, most of us so struggle with the physical aspects to the extent that we never get to the other part.  It is the mental side of golf that Patrick speaks about, and though this too is part of one's "ability", I think it is one that is not typically associated in practice (as opposed to theory) when most of us play golf.

A sad fact of the cycle of life, particularly for those of us on the long side, is that our physical abilities diminish.  Disease and injuries can hasten that process, but often our brains are not badly affected in the areas that can help us overcome the loss of physicality.  Understanding gca, devising good strategies, learning to hit effective shots with whatever limited range of motion we might have, etc. are the things that I found meaningful in the aforementioned piece, and that can bring new interest, excitement, and joy to our game even when we can't hit the shots we can still remember.

One last thing about quitting because one can't play like he used to, and my apologies if this gets too close to home.  I think I was with you when you got the call that your father was ill and you had to leave the KP match abruptly to return home.  You had previously told me about his condition and that he had quit the game at a relatively early age- if I remember right, in his late 40s to early 50s- because he could no longer play like he used to.  I sensed sadness and regret as you related the story, and as I saw you leave Rustic Canyon, I was saddened that you didn't have the opportunity to enjoy this great game longer with the great man.

I've never met Patrick Mucci, but it is obvious that he enjoys golf in some very existential ways.  I am sure that his family and friends are fortunate that he finds such joy in his game even when he probably doesn't often play anywhere close to the level he once did.  I hope that when it is my time, that my son will be able to remember our last round in the not too distant past.         

[Adam_F_Collins]

I think it boils down to enjoyment.

For some, storming around the course in a fit of rage still amounts to 'fun' in the grand scheme of things. The rage is part of the drama. Just like being horrified or saddened by a movie is fun.

But some fall into a rhythm of annoyance at their lack of success - and I believe that many of these people might find themselves happier if the left the game behind.

It's up to the individual to recognized the difference.

I went from playing golf several times a week (and talking here a lot) - to playing only twice last year. It was a baby that trimmed it first. Then a split with my wife, and a lost job, blah blah. And for me, the enjoyment of golf requires the time and the mindset to get lost in it. I need to 'care' about it enough to really try. Golf was never a relaxing walk in the park for me. I like the intensity of trying to stay focused and to play well.

Recently, I've begun to heft the 7 iron and swing it around in the kitchen as I watch the ice fade from the yard.

You know it's time to quit when the spirit you enjoy in it fades. And you know it's time to play when you feel it spark again.

A

[Eric Smith]

Shivas:

Let's forget score and shot making for a moment and go back to last year.  I can't help but remember your posts last year about your visit to Rock Creek and how much you loved that golf course.  I don't recall that you posted about playing well there, just that you loved the golf course.  And it was fun reading about your experience.

Are you not of the opinion that there will be more of these type of experiences to be had (by you), or was that 'the last stop'?

[Tom Huckaby]

David:

We know you are very smart Dave and battling words with you is a fool's errand.   But you're welcome... for giving you the chance to strut your stuff.

So let's cut the BS, shall we?

Here's the deal:  are you gonna quit or not?  Do you want to quit and are looking for support here for the decision? Or are you thinking of quitting and trying to be talked out of it? What is your purpose in this thread?

All this parsing of words, logic etc. is somewhat fun, but in the end pretty meaningless.

[Charlie Goerges]

Guys, just give shiv his strokes please!

[Tom Huckaby]

Guys, just give shiv his strokes please!

Hell he can have however many his lack of shame allows him to take.  He just knows that the more he asks for, the lower the stakes.

So methinks more is afoot here... but we shall see.

[Charlie Goerges]

I'd give him 5 strokes a side if I had to. Just look at that winning smile!

[Eric Smith]

I'd give him 5 strokes a side if I had to. Just look at that winning smile!

Guys, just give shiv his strokes please!

Hell he can have however many his lack of shame allows him to take.  He just knows that the more he asks for, the lower the stakes.

Auric 'Huckaby'?