[Ronald Montesano]

For your reading pleasure, from the USGA Women's Open site:

http://www.usga.org/news/2010/May/The-Greening-Of-Oakmont/

[TEPaul]

It's an interesting article even if the title of it may be at first a bit misleading to some. 

[George Pazin]

Not at all what I was expecting, thanks for sharing.

[John Moore II]

Very good article and one that I think a lot of course superintendents should read. Course maintenance is one of the biggest ways that courses can cut/manage costs and that certainly translates to the consumer (or it should anyway). I like how they talk about extremely low maintenance grass areas and using organic fertilizers. Very good stuff there.

[Ronald Montesano]

Yeah, from time to time, I make an actual contribution to this place...

[Ryan Farrow]

Thanks for posting the article, a good read.

EVERY SUPER NEEDS TO TAKE NOTE. Stop over watering your golf courses!!!!!


I was just at Oakmont last week. And once again, the conditions are top notch. And its not because of the budget. It because, just like at National Golf Links and courses like Huntington Valley. The superintendents understand the playability aspect of their courses and do not over water.

And they still manage to keep their courses pretty green. You CAN have your cake and eat it too.

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

  Not about the budget?  As a past Green Chairman at Merion once said, "It's not about the money, it's ALL about the money."  He opened his presentation at a USGA Regional Conference with that.  But don't get me wrong,  John does an outstanding job at Oakmont no doubt about that.  And I agree that we Super's should read this and water less but please keep in mind the huge investment that Oakmont has made in it's golf course.  In order for John to use less water now there was a > 1 million dollor investment made in a state of the art irrigation system.  And how much do you think it costs to remove 5,000 - 8,000 trees?   BTW, I like the wide range given here, as if they don't know.  Then another $300,000 or so to rebuild the ditches and cap them with sand. They are "ditches".  Given the resources amd siupport any Superintendent would love to do all the same stuff.  Don't get me wrong - John is the Man and he definately has a plan.  But don't just say" Supers should read this and then they will water less.  If you want your golf course to be like Oakmont then get you Super similar resources.  You will both be very happy.

   

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

Mr. Moore:  I just read your post again.  You said,  "Course maintenance is one of the biggest ways that courses can cut/manage costs and that certainly translates to the consumer (or it should anyway). "   Other than some savings on water costs I did not read anything in this article that lead me to conclude that maintenance costs at Oakmont have been reduced.  Not sure how you can to your statement?

[Dan Herrmann]

Sean,
Why would a super lay down so much water so that the course plays slow and sloggy?

Our head greenkeeper was out hand-syringing greens yesterday - about 6 minutes per green and they're good to go.  This is with a high of 95F and a dewpoint of 49F.  They're also watered at night but never to the point where they get remotely wet.

Actually, I love how the rough is browning out in the hot weather.  The fescues look great and the color contrast is really beautiful.

Of course, you always have guys that think ANGC is the goal, but I suggest educating them.  Some won't ever get it, so don't even bother trying.   Worst case, bring in the USGA green section guys to give a talk.

[John Moore II]

Mr. Moore:  I just read your post again.  You said,  "Course maintenance is one of the biggest ways that courses can cut/manage costs and that certainly translates to the consumer (or it should anyway). "   Other than some savings on water costs I did not read anything in this article that lead me to conclude that maintenance costs at Oakmont have been reduced.  Not sure how you can to your statement?

Quotes from the article in red.

You can save with less water.

You can save with more efficient mowers and equipment: "Our fairway mowers are all hybrid technology,” Zimmers said. “They’re gas-driven, but the hydraulics have been replaced with electricity, which makes the blades go around. We’re using less fuel and reducing the potential for leaks considerably. We have a greens roller that’s electric and half of our fleet of carts is electric." 

You can use less chemicals and apply them more precisely: Zimmers is constantly comparing 10-year periods and, like the decrease in water usage, he has seen a decrease in the amount of fertilizer and chemicals used.  “Golfers hate the word ‘aerify’ but when we do that and take soil samples (in the spring and fall), that’s a $1,500-$2,000 expense,” Zimmers said. “But it tells us exactly what we need in our soil, so we’re not just blindly applying things. And we use organic fertilizers. All of our fertilizers and chemicals are 100 percent contained. They’re in a dike, they can’t run off. We feel like all those things are very important. It’s a responsibility we have.”

Apart from that, courses can look at how and how often they maintain bunkers and rough areas. They can look to see if they are most efficiently staffed (green staffs are usually the largest at the club). So, there are a lot of ways that courses can save a huge chunk of money if they are willing to look at it.

[Bradley Anderson]

Very good article and one that I think a lot of course superintendents should read. Course maintenance is one of the biggest ways that courses can cut/manage costs and that certainly translates to the consumer (or it should anyway). I like how they talk about extremely low maintenance grass areas and using organic fertilizers. Very good stuff there.

The grounds maintenance budget at most clubs is less than 20% of the club's overall budget.

[John Moore II]

Very good article and one that I think a lot of course superintendents should read. Course maintenance is one of the biggest ways that courses can cut/manage costs and that certainly translates to the consumer (or it should anyway). I like how they talk about extremely low maintenance grass areas and using organic fertilizers. Very good stuff there.

The grounds maintenance budget at most clubs is less than 20% of the club's overall budget.

Where is the other 80%? Because I can promise that from my last club, with a $400K maintenance budget, that our overall budget was not $2 million. Unless crew salaries are not included in that number, our maintenance budget was far higher than 20% of total.

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

Dan:  "Why would a super lay down so much water so that the course plays slow and sloggy?"   

     I don't know the answer to that question.  You would have to ask him.  I know that I would never do that.  I don't believe in that king of watering and I don't have the irrigation system or water supply to do it anyway.  I don't hear that many people talk about ANGC anymore, besides, I think they are closed in the summer anyway.

Mr. Moore:  Your quotes are good and they are examples of possible savings.  I have hybrid mowers on my greens.  The work great because the electrically driven reel gives a higher FOC (frequency of cut).   I have not been able to afford hybrid mowers for fairways as of yet.  However we have converted all hydrolic fluid to a non petrolium based product that is much nicer for the environment on the rare occasion of a leak.  The idea is to not have leaks.  The electric rollers do need to have their batteries charged but they are nice.

I think all of golf is using more organic fertilizers.  Even those who had never used them had to consider them a few years ago when gas was $4 dollars a gallon.  The cost of chemical fertilizers went through the roof, not to mention the shipping costs.  In the last ten years organic fertilizers have become more cost effective and better produced in the last 10 years.  Soil samples are a small expense and most all courses do them.  They help justify and guide fertility programs for all of us.  It's all good stuff but I don't see huge savings here.  I believe John says in the article that the largest saving came from the removal of trees.  So again we are spending money to save money.

Now for this statement:
      "Apart from that, courses can look at how and how often they maintain bunkers and rough areas. They can look to see if they are most efficiently staffed (green staffs are usually the largest at the club). So, there are a lot of ways that courses can save a huge chunk of money if they are willing to look at it. 

    Are you implying that Oakmont performes less maintenance on bunkers and rough?   And every organization is different but currently my staffing budget/ payroll is one third of the overall organizations payroll budget.  So I am not sure what 'most clubs" you are talking about but I would be interested to know.



 

[John Moore II]

Mr. Moore:  Your quotes are good and they are examples of possible savings.  I have hybrid mowers on my greens.  The work great because the electrically driven reel gives a higher FOC (frequency of cut).   I have not been able to afford hybrid mowers for fairways as of yet.  However we have converted all hydrolic fluid to a non petrolium based product that is much nicer for the environment on the rare occasion of a leak.  The idea is to not have leaks.  The electric rollers do need to have their batteries charged but they are nice.

I think all of golf is using more organic fertilizers.  Even those who had never used them had to consider them a few years ago when gas was $4 dollars a gallon.  The cost of chemical fertilizers went through the roof, not to mention the shipping costs.  In the last ten years organic fertilizers have become more cost effective and better produced in the last 10 years.  Soil samples are a small expense and most all courses do them.  They help justify and guide fertility programs for all of us.  It's all good stuff but I don't see huge savings here.  I believe John says in the article that the largest saving came from the removal of trees.  So again we are spending money to save money.

And how much will that tree removal program save in the long term? Far more than it cost, I am sure.

Now for this statement:
      "Apart from that, courses can look at how and how often they maintain bunkers and rough areas. They can look to see if they are most efficiently staffed (green staffs are usually the largest at the club). So, there are a lot of ways that courses can save a huge chunk of money if they are willing to look at it. 

    Are you implying that Oakmont performes less maintenance on bunkers and rough?  No, just stating a fact, as stated in the article: “We have 70 to 80 acres of fescue where the trees were,” Zimmers said. “And that’s low-maintenance grass, comparatively speaking. It gets mowed once a year. There’s basically no fertilizing and water consumption is nearly zero, except for what nature provides.”

Other courses could work on the same, mowing the rough with less frequency and raking the bunkers with less frequency.

 And every organization is different but currently my staffing budget/ payroll is one third of the overall organizations payroll budget.  So I am not sure what 'most clubs" you are talking about but I would be interested to know.

When did I say "most clubs." Looking back at my posts I don't see those two words written side-by-side anywhere in my posts.

While on this subject though, in your situation, counting payroll and all other maintenance expenses, what percentage of total expenditures does your department take?
 

[John Chilver-Stainer]

I don’t know about the US, but here in Switzerland I have never had to pay for a tree to be removed.

The trees are removed by professionals who cut and sell the wood. They don’t charge for the cutting and removal but make their profits by selling on the wood.

In one golf course renovation I removed approximatly 1000 trees, mainly 45 year old birches and some willows - all “gratis”.

However we did have to bury the stumps or place them in specified ecological areas !!

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