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[Jim Colton]

Charlie,

  How about an 'Old Mac' approach where each contestant (or team) comes up with a design in the spirit of another architect, dead or alive?  Just a thought.  It would at least create some interest.

  Other than that, I think you should keep churning it out as is and hope it picks up more steam next time.  It was pretty clear that most, if not all, contestants enjoyed partaking, learned from the process and would likely do it again.  Fo Shizzle.

[Charlie Goerges]

Thanks Jim,

That's a good idea. I'd been struggling to even come up with examples of ways to make the contest more interesting, and that is one way. I know I don't want to just put a topo out there and say 'have at it' again, so your suggestion is a good start. At the very least, putting teams together would help make sure no one is in over their head on sketchup (which I'm assuming we'll use again unless a major uproar occurs in the meantime).


I'm also looking for the hook or gimmick and the architectural style is a contender. Or maybe we should try to produce an alternative routing for Cypress Point . I'd love to hear more from anyone interested.

[Jim Colton]

Sadly, our much ballyhooed esker has been pared down in real life.


"Hole #17…CATHEDRAL…All of the enhancements took place just beyond the landing area and the signature oak tree to the right side of the fairway.
   The large esker, that big mound which comes from the left side front of the green to the middle of the fairway is still there in the same natural shape.  It has been shortened naturally.  Hit a drive to the center of the fairway, and you will now have a full view of the green. "

[Charlie Goerges]

Son of a B*tch! That's like wiping that smirk off the Mona Lisa!

[Charlie Goerges]

I see that the Dell hole has bitten the dust too. That I'm not outraged about. Does the par 5 use the tees from the Dell?

[Jim Colton]

Computer simulation of before and after of the 17th at EH (just for fun).

Before:


After:

[Charlie Goerges]

Man, if they're flattening it that much that's too bad.

I was hoping for "Esker Lite" or at worst "Diet Esker", that looks more like "speed bump".

[Jim Colton]

Charlie,

  Obviously my sarcasm was lost on you.  I think they are just shaving it down a little bit.

[Charlie Goerges]

Hey, it's early. I can barely function before 9.

[Garland Bayley]

Sadly, our much ballyhooed esker has been pared down in real life.


"Hole #17…CATHEDRAL…All of the enhancements took place just beyond the landing area and the signature oak tree to the right side of the fairway.
   The large esker, that big mound which comes from the left side front of the green to the middle of the fairway is still there in the same natural shape.  It has been shortened naturally.  Hit a drive to the center of the fairway, and you will now have a full view of the green. "

What does "shortened naturally" mean. The seeded the clouds so they could have torrents of rain eat away at it? Or, did they turn a bunch of caterpillars loose on it?

[Ross Tuddenham]

I am new what is this contest?

How does it work?

[Charlie Goerges]

Welcome aboard Ross.

A quick synopsis of the contest:

I distributed a topo map and 3D Google Sketchup file for the contestants to use to design a course. The area that the topo map comprised was used to for the real Erin Hills golf course. Competitors used the free program Google Sketchup to draw and create their designs which were then submitted to our panel of judges for rating. When the results were posted, the discussions began and now we are winding this thing up.

I'm planning on doing it again in the future, and right now I'm trying to gather some feedback/suggestions/criticisms to help improve it for next time. Please feel free to post any ideas you have about how an "armchair architecture contest" should be run. To broaden the appeal, while keeping it rewarding and informational for the contestants, is my goal.

[Ross Tuddenham]

that sounds like a very interesting project, is the software difficult to use?

[Charlie Goerges]

Ohhhh, I think Garland and the others should answer that question.


There is a learning curve, but it's doable. There will be more practice before the next contest though, so I hope it isn't too much of an issue.

[Charlie Goerges]

I do want to get more input on what the contest should become and if we should try to get it a bit more 'established' (whatever that may mean to you).

Also, should it be (as the present one was):

18 holes

large tract of land

focused on the art of routing

conducted via sketchup



Or should those things change? Some possibilities are (this list is certainly not exhaustive, this is where I want as much input as possible):


Fewer holes

design in the style of an architect

"problem" solving (e.g. a difficult stretch of land which must contain 2 or 3 holes to connect different parts of the course)

take on a classic (with or without knowing its identity?)

Design teams (to take the pressure of everyone needing to learn the software)

Conducted using only topographic contour maps (no sketchup)


The list could go on, but I'd like the input of anyone and everyone willing to give it.

[Ross Tuddenham]

Would there be any chance I could have the file just to mess around on?

[Charlie Goerges]

Sure, Ross, go to this link and the first couple of posts (and many subsequent posts as well) should both explain how the contest was to work and contain links to all of the files you'll need.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38102.0.html

[Ross Tuddenham]

Thanks I will take a look.

Ross

[Steve Lang]

Hey Charlie & Intersted folks.  some comments below for your consideration..

I do want to get more input on what the contest should become and if we should try to get it a bit more 'established' (whatever that may mean to you).

Also, should it be (as the present one was):

18 holes .. DEFINITELY continue the 18 hole scope, biggest challenge I saw was making those "choices" when you've got more than 18 holes identified and must make the routing work and get back to the starting point one way or the other..

large tract of land .. THE EH acreage you had was just about right.. I almost sent in a 27 hole layout..

focused on the art of routing.. THIS was the most fun.. doing layouts over the topo..

conducted via sketchup.. SKETCHUP looks good on some views, but doesn't seem to show enough contours on many perspective views..  you've mastered itm, but i think its more of a "concept proving" tool like you used it on several of my favorites, #2 & 13 at Foothills Trail,  thanks again!


Or should those things change? Some possibilities are (this list is certainly not exhaustive, this is where I want as much input as possible):


Fewer holes .. NO

design in the style of an architect.. NO who's really to judge??

"problem" solving (e.g. a difficult stretch of land which must contain 2 or 3 holes to connect different parts of the course)

take on a classic (with or without knowing its identity?) ..maybe for some, but not me, give me 18, 27, or 36!!

Design teams (to take the pressure of everyone needing to learn the software) DEFINITELY YES..  THIS WOULD MIMIC REAL LIFE ..EVEN ROCKETEERS GET FIELD INPUT FROM THEIR FUTURE SUPERS!!  ONE CAN RUN OUT OF GAS TRYING TO DO EVERYTHING

Conducted using only topographic contour maps (no sketchup) ..YES I WOULD LIKE THE MOST.. ONE CAN THEN USE PENCIL OR POWER POINT OR ACROBAT TO MAKE WORKUPS.. USING THE MIND'S EYE OVER LAND DEFINTION IN THE ROUTING PROCESS I THINK IS THE REAL ART OF GCA..  GETTING SOME TOPO MAPS OR DEM DATA ISN'T THAT HARD.. WOULD BE BEST IF IT WASN'T AN EXISTING SITE EITHER

The list could go on, but I'd like the input of anyone and everyone willing to give it.

CHEERS AND GOOD GOLFING TO ALL.. GOTTA GET IN 9 before dark

[Charlie Goerges]

Thanks for the input Steve! I hear you loud and clear.

Please, others feel free to chime in, even if you definitely will never participate. If you have a good idea we'll still use it.

[Charlie Goerges]

Ross,

Here is a link to my earlier non-contest exercise. It is a smaller and more manageable file.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36362.0.html

[Ian_Linford]

I do want to get more input on what the contest should become and if we should try to get it a bit more 'established' (whatever that may mean to you).

??


Also, should it be (as the present one was):


18 holes

Yes,  for the same reasons as Steve.


large tract of land

I think this works best for us amateurs, so we don't get too many dangerous situations and have more options to use the "natural holes" we find.  Maybe a smaller site in the future?


conducted via sketchup

I still sketchup the best.  Maybe a short tutorial showing how you could draw holes on paper and scan them into sketchup for those who prefer that method?  (is that feasible?)


Or should those things change? Some possibilities are (this list is certainly not exhaustive, this is where I want as much input as possible):



Fewer holes

I wouldn't say in general, but maybe for a "specialty project" down the road (like remodeling #'s 10 and 11 at Stanford).


design in the style of an architect

I think this would be extremely difficult for people like me who have only seen one or two courses at most designed by major architects.


"problem" solving (e.g. a difficult stretch of land which must contain 2 or 3 holes to connect different parts of the course)

That sounds very cool, as long as it doesn't get too goofy.  Also, I would hope this wouldn't lead to too much implied earthmoving.


take on a classic (with or without knowing its identity?)

Would be an interesting idea, although I'm sure quite a few would recognize the course, which would probably make it much harder for them.


Design teams (to take the pressure of everyone needing to learn the software)

How would the logistics work on this?  It would be difficult not being able to talk directly with your partner.  I suppose you could have a designer and a shaper?


Conducted using only topographic contour maps (no sketchup)

Nahhh


The list could go on, but I'd like the input of anyone and everyone willing to give it.

[Charlie Goerges]

Just a quick followup to let the contestants know that I've not forgotten about the "prizes". I am still working on the cards/logos. In fact Here are 3 more (I've already shown winner Andrew Gray's card):

You know who you are.



















I'm working on all of them. Once they're all done, I'll take them to the printer and then mail them out. Andrew's will be the only one signed by the judges. Oh, I'll also post the rest of the contestants here once I've finished them.

[Garland Bayley]

Charlie,

It's Bighorn Cliffs, not Bighorn Ranch.

[Charlie Goerges]

Doh! I'll fix and repost. Sorry about that.

[Peter Wagner]

Charlie,

What if the contest had practical value instead of just theory?  I've wondered for awhile about starting a CGA.com effort to help redesign old uninspired Army and Navy goat tracks as a public service.  What if the contest was centered around a particular existing Navy track with a modest budget and realistic chances to build?  The winning design could then be submitted to the Navy course for real construction.

Just a thought.

- Peter

[Charlie Goerges]

Peter, I think it would be a terrific idea. Do you think we could get our hands on the necessary pertinent information? I'm talking topo map, with wetlands boundaries, property lines, maybe even current irrigation extents etc? Even if we couldn't, I could always generate most of it from the currently available data.

What kind of timeline are you thinking? (both for starting and for how long participants would have)

I think it would be a much more interesting experience for both participants and the general GCA viewing public than the last contest.


Others, feel free to chime in with some views/suggestions on Peter's idea.

[Peter Wagner]

Do you think we could get our hands on the necessary pertinent information? I'm talking topo map, with wetlands boundaries, property lines, maybe even current irrigation extents etc? Even if we couldn't, I could always generate most of it from the currently available data.

I think we could if we could find the right course and course manager.  I'm not sure how we would do that other than casting the net on CGA to see if anyone has contacts for these types of courses.

What kind of timeline are you thinking? (both for starting and for how long participants would have)
Because it's for a real effort (and good cause) I would be generous on timeline. 

Here's a list of Navy courses:

http://www.mwr.navy.mil/mwrprgms/golflist.htm

[Jim Colton]

Charlie,

  Nice work on the scorecard.  I was actually going to put a 3D clubhouse in the shape of a doghouse on my design, exactly like your logo.

  As expected, I continue to tweak and modify my original design, for not other reason than I have no life.  Although now that I've made all these changes, I don't know if it really any better than the last version.  In any case, let me know if it's too late to get my new version to you to go on the scorecard.  I only have one more hole to tweak.



  Jim

[Charlie Goerges]

Jim,

Send me your sketchup file when you're finished, and if you could also send me a word or excel document with the yardages, that would help as well.

Looks good.

[Peter Wagner]

Charlie,

Here's a Navy course in San Diego, Sea n Air GC on North Island (Coronado) in SanDiego's bay:

http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/course.aspx?course=104545

This might be a great candidate for a CGA makeover! 

[Garland Bayley]

Peter,

Looks like there are some ponds to be drained! As a side note, I looked at the Sherwood score card and decided to let my partner deal with hitting over as many ponds as possible by giving him the even holes for his tee shot. We started on 2, had to skip 3, and guess who ended up hitting into the water all day since skipping 3 immediately negated my tee ball rotation.