News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2009, 11:41:06 AM »
Like any links course, Turnberry depends on wind to defend par but then again, as Mark says, defending par is not what links golf is all about. I've played Turnberry a couple of times in recent years and seen some of the changes that have been put in place for the Open and I'm sure the pros will love it. The course is fairly straight forward and more or less everything is in front of you without any real hidden trouble. Most of the time it plays like a resort course, which is what it is, ie fairly open, but I'm sure it will have been set up a lot tighter for the Open.

Niall

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2009, 12:28:12 PM »
Here's the interesting thing...the winning scores were -12, Level par, -12.  FWIW, I wouldn't want to see her torn to shreds in record fashion, but I also don't want a U.S. Open type slog where +1 wins...maybe a little of each...a couple tough days, a couple easy days...
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2009, 01:08:30 PM »
Yes, I think it is reasonable to suggest that Turnberry is the one in the rota most reliant on a breeze for its defense.  But I quite agree with this:
I think Turnberry this time round is more difficult, so it probably at 7200+ par 70 will be like the others much harder if the wind puffs. I agree TOC is most reliant on a windy defence, it is effectively the shortest of the courses on the rota
At least, the lengthening of Turnberry is all done by staying on what one might reasonably discern as "the golf course", as opposed to The Old Course, quietly ravaged by out-of-control equipment technology, which needs to borrow at least a couple of tees from out of bounds and who-knows-where.

Mark Bourgeois

Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2009, 02:13:37 PM »
Sean

I agree the start is nothing to write home about. The 1st in fact is absolutely blah.

But I like a number of holes outside the magical stretch, especially 13, 15, 16 and 17.

The green complex on 14 is interesting and 18 is fun if only to recreate the Duel shot from the right rough.

Having read about but not seen the changes on 16, I am trying to keep an open mind but fear the worst.

But perhaps your feelings are felt mutually: didn't you play through a hailstorm there?

Mark

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2009, 04:14:08 PM »
great stuff everybody...Normans 63 was in a windstorm too, which made it extra special...he could have had 61 or 62, but three putted the last from 30 feet.


Jay,

I don't think most people really appreciate just how good Norman's 63 was. It was a howling gale with gusting winds and the course was not set up easy even for a calm day. This round goes down in my book as one of the best if not the best low scoring round in major championship history.

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2009, 04:51:14 PM »
Great Hotel too (tho godawfully expensive).  We stayed at Turnberry before taking the ferry over to Northern Ireland in '90.  I still remember lounging in the infinity pool, looking out at Ailsa Craig, with the classical music piped into the water, and the heated towel rack in the morning was a very nice touch.  Of the three guys on our trip, Turnberry was the least favorite.  But it is in the rota, and it is links golf.  Sort of like being the least favorite SI swimsuit model. . .

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2009, 05:17:51 PM »
Sean

I agree the start is nothing to write home about. The 1st in fact is absolutely blah.

But I like a number of holes outside the magical stretch, especially 13, 15, 16 and 17.

The green complex on 14 is interesting and 18 is fun if only to recreate the Duel shot from the right rough.

Having read about but not seen the changes on 16, I am trying to keep an open mind but fear the worst.

But perhaps your feelings are felt mutually: didn't you play through a hailstorm there?

Mark

Mark

Ironically for not being a huge fan of the place, I have played Turnberry a number times.  The golf may not be up there with the best of them, but the combo of the hotel, spa and golf is near unbeatable and one place my wife will visit if golf is on the cards. 

The hole I like outside the stretch is #3.  I used to like 16, but we shall see what has happened.  The stretch from 11 thru 18 isn't really blessed with many really good shots and this is why I think Turnberry is a second tier course on first tier land.  I don't think anywhere near the best was had from the site and its one of those what could have been places for me.  Still, I do think Turnberry will make for a good Open if the course browns out a bit.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2009, 07:52:14 PM »
great stuff everybody...Normans 63 was in a windstorm too, which made it extra special...he could have had 61 or 62, but three putted the last from 30 feet.


Jay,

I don't think most people really appreciate just how good Norman's 63 was. It was a howling gale with gusting winds and the course was not set up easy even for a calm day. This round goes down in my book as one of the best if not the best low scoring round in major championship history.

jenkins said that too.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

MSusko

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2009, 09:47:07 PM »
Good course, but not the best in the rota.  Great atmosphere however.  The best part is 18 holes then dinner and drinks followed by a round on the par 3 course.

Robin Doodson

Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2009, 02:36:39 AM »
Turnberry is simply heaven. there is no better place to play golf rain, hail or shine. The consensus of opinion from this thread is that because it is not unfairly difficult then it can't be a great course. This obsession with protecting par must stop!

Turnberry will provide us with a sensational Open. One quick point to remember is that each time the Open has been held there the current world number 1 has won. Might be worth a couple of bucks on Tiger.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2009, 08:03:35 AM »
Turnberry is simply heaven. there is no better place to play golf rain, hail or shine. The consensus of opinion from this thread is that because it is not unfairly difficult then it can't be a great course. This obsession with protecting par must stop!

Turnberry will provide us with a sensational Open. One quick point to remember is that each time the Open has been held there the current world number 1 has won. Might be worth a couple of bucks on Tiger.

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you for saying it Robin. I even think 14 & 15 have their merits (not sure about 11 - there's a wasted opportunity).  I'm really looking froward to this open and winning the lottery so I can afford to go back. ;)

To misquote Groucho, if you're not having fun at Turnberry have your Caddy check for your pulse .

Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark Bourgeois

Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2009, 12:13:37 PM »
Turnberry is simply heaven. there is no better place to play golf rain, hail or shine. The consensus of opinion from this thread is that because it is not unfairly difficult then it can't be a great course. This obsession with protecting par must stop!

Turnberry will provide us with a sensational Open. One quick point to remember is that each time the Open has been held there the current world number 1 has won. Might be worth a couple of bucks on Tiger.

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you for saying it Robin. I even think 14 & 15 have their merits (not sure about 11 - there's a wasted opportunity).  I'm really looking froward to this open and winning the lottery so I can afford to go back. ;)

To misquote Groucho, if you're not having fun at Turnberry have your Caddy check for your pulse .



No no no this is not the consensus of opinion! A few go after the scoring thing but others say the real knock is that it is too orthodox, thus less linksy than other courses on the Rota and thus a favorite of Americans who the stereotype goes are hung up on fairness.

I think Sean's basic point is fair - the course is more orthodox than other Rota course save perhaps HCEG, and orthodoxy by definition limits capriciousness - but I find Ailsa lots of fun and so disagree with his unstated premise that orthodoxy cannot produce fun.

Mark

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2009, 02:27:28 PM »
Turnberry is simply heaven. there is no better place to play golf rain, hail or shine. The consensus of opinion from this thread is that because it is not unfairly difficult then it can't be a great course. This obsession with protecting par must stop!

Turnberry will provide us with a sensational Open. One quick point to remember is that each time the Open has been held there the current world number 1 has won. Might be worth a couple of bucks on Tiger.

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you for saying it Robin. I even think 14 & 15 have their merits (not sure about 11 - there's a wasted opportunity).  I'm really looking froward to this open and winning the lottery so I can afford to go back. ;)

To misquote Groucho, if you're not having fun at Turnberry have your Caddy check for your pulse .



I think Sean's basic point is fair - the course is more orthodox than other Rota course save perhaps HCEG, and orthodoxy by definition limits capriciousness - but I find Ailsa lots of fun and so disagree with his unstated premise that orthodoxy cannot produce fun.

Mark

Its interesting having a back up brain to explain my latent thoughts.  Where were you when I wasn't having fun at Turnberry? 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Bourgeois

Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2009, 03:28:51 PM »
Guilty as charged.

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2009, 02:06:43 PM »
The following is an excerpt from an interview with Ernie Els in which he discusses Turnberry:

"As I say, I was at Turnberry for two days, and that could be quite a beast if the wind comes up. The rough is very high and so forth. You need to strike the ball well. No matter what your record is like, you need to strike the ball well and have some kind of game going into any kind of major.

Q. Can you describe the conditions at Turnberry in a bit more detail, and also, can you tell us why it is that links golf allows -- you separate yourself from the rest of the world in links golf and don't in parkland golf, so what are the specific things about your game that creates that separation in links?
ERNIE ELS: Well, I played Turnberry, and it's very lush. They must have had a lot of rain up there unlike down south, until yesterday. But in any case, they are very lush, very green and I think that's the reason why the rough is so high. Even flying into Prestwick and driving down, everywhere, the countryside, the grass is up there like that. It's not like they put any steroids in the grass to let it grow but it is up.
So you are going to have to have a good game plan, probably play quite safe off the tees to get it in play and going in with longer irons depending on the breeze. We played it with a northerly, so the front nine was into the wind, so that forces you to play the long club off the tee. You have to hit driver off most of the tees there. And if you have downwind holes, you want to try and make birdies and really survive into the wind. It's a true links where you have out and in."

It sounds like a big departure from Hoylake, for example.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2009, 02:20:14 PM »
Tim

I think you're right. Up until late last week I would have said that there was a good chance of fast and firm playing conditions (assuming of course that they weren't watering everywhere) however there was a deluge of rain on the west coast Friday night and further rain at various times since. Looking ahead I don't think we are going to get the really hot/sunny weather needed to getting it back to f&f assuming that it was like that, which I dounbt given Ernies comments.

I have heard though that they have cut the rough some but that may be relative.

Niall 

Rich Goodale

Re: On to Turnberry - your thoughts
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2009, 02:51:36 PM »
Mark B. is right.  Turnberry is unrelenting fun.  I'm sure that Tom Simpson or Mike Stranz or AN Other could have made a funkier course from the land avaialble, but a better course?  Doubt it.  And a more fun course?  Closer call but still the (speculative) vote goes to Turnberry.  I predict that the player who will win will be the contender with the biggest smile on his face as he heads into the back 9 on Sunday.......