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Rich Goodale

Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2009, 03:42:42 PM »
Who am I watching paint dry with and in what state of dress?

I just checked back in and the paint is still wet and yet several esteemed analysts are debating whether it will dry and when.  As for my state of dress, it's smart casual as I'm off to watch Man United play Inter Milan at the local.

Enjoy

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2009, 03:43:03 PM »
Matt:

I myself am in the middle of my 12-step GCA program aimed at not mentioning a certain Langford & Moreau course in Wisconsin that begins L-A-W.....

I have not played either Black Mesa or Bandon Dunes. I have hopes of playing Vista Verde sometime soon, and from what I've seen of the course via GCA threads, it looks quite good.


Tom Huckaby

Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2009, 03:45:23 PM »
Who am I watching paint dry with and in what state of dress?

I just checked back in and the paint is still wet and yet several esteemed analysts are debating whether it will dry and when.  As for my state of dress, it's smart casual as I'm off to watch Man United play Inter Milan at the local.

Enjoy

Why not watch a game featuring some skill?

Roma v. Arsenal starts at the same time... NOW....

K. Krahenbuhl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2009, 03:53:01 PM »
I wonder if one of the new classic restorations will appear on the list like Cal Club or Sleepy Hollow?

Cal Club is #60 on the classic list.

The other new entry on the classic list was Sankaty Head GC at #91.

Modern debuts are Colorado GC (#23), Fallen Oak GC (55), Estancia (79), McArthur GC (81), RTJ GC (86), Greywalls (92), Spanish Oaks GC (97), GC at Ravenna (100).
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 04:01:13 PM by Kyle Krahenbuhl »

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2009, 03:56:05 PM »
Kyle:

I hear what you say -- but I'll rate ANY aspect of BM over BD. You can start with a straight match play comparison -- I'll be glad to break it down by hole groups (e.g. par-3's, par-4's, par-5's) or how the holes fall out when playing them in terms the overall flow/character of the land.

BM is quite  walkable.

One final item -- the hazards and green complexes are also more intricate and far more stress producing for the shots you need to have within your portfolio.

You also dodged my point on BT - the middle stretch of holes is the real weak point of the course. Once you leave the short par-3 on the front until you get to the approach at the 13th the caliber of holes in that run is a good few steps behind the opening and closing ones, in my opinion.


I  prefer BM to BD as well, but it's a closer contest for my part.

BM is technically walkable but, even as a devout gym rat in his late 20's, I'd prefer to ride there. I played the course in very comfortable weather (early March 2006), but the summer heat would make walking a foolish proposition. Plus, you'd have a tough time keeping up the pace of play if you're paired with riders.

Regarding Trails, I actually like a few of the "middle holes" at BT, including 6, 8, and 12.  

7,9,10,11 are not at the same level as other holes on BT, but they're still far better than anything around my neighborhood.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

tlavin

Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2009, 04:21:55 PM »
Just one man's opinion Terry!

The greens are the big difference maker in my opinion.

I'm not arguing the point, I'm just impressed by your conviction.  It inspires me to get up there and play it myself.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2009, 04:56:12 PM »
A few more tidbits:

13.  Old Sandwich
19.  Chambers Bay
22.  Bandon Trails
23.  Colorado Golf Club
24.  Dunes Club
26.  Boston Golf Club  (from 48.)
29.  Monterey Peninsula CC (Shore)


Numerically, Whistling Straits has separated itself from the others.  Pacific Dunes is 9.23.  Whistling Straits is 8.69.  Pete Dye GC is 8.30.

John

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2009, 04:59:43 PM »
A few more tidbits:

13.  Old Sandwich
19.  Chambers Bay
22.  Bandon Trails
23.  Colorado Golf Club
24.  Dunes Club
26.  Boston Golf Club  (from 48.)
29.  Monterey Peninsula CC (Shore)


Numerically, Whistling Straits has separated itself from the others.  Pacific Dunes is 9.23.  Whistling Straits is 8.69.  Pete Dye GC is 8.30.

John

Wow...#24 for the Dunes Club!
H.P.S.

Scott Stearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2009, 05:00:57 PM »
sebonack better than golf club?

Pete Dye GC better than golf club?

--or---

raters cant get on/its not a 7400 yard course????

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2009, 05:32:56 PM »
On my wish list, I hope Stone Eagle sneaks into the top 100, but I'm doubtful.  I want Witch Hollow to stay in the top 100.  I'd like to see Rock Creek break top 60 or so, and wonder where Mountaintop or Cornerstone will debut.

Make your predictions quick; I think the lists will be on here in short order.

John, I see the Pumpkin logo under your name... what is your affiliation if any with the club?

By the Witch Hollow is at #71
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 05:42:09 PM by Greg Tallman »

Matt_Ward

Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2009, 05:46:45 PM »
Scott S:

Well put -- The Golf Club deserves better overall recognition as the best Pete Dye layout in the States.

Garland:

I've walked BM an equal number of times to the rounds I have played with a cart. BM is quite walkable and frankly is easier to walk then a place like Bethpage Black, in my opinion.

Huck:

I think there is a bit of "star" architect preference. Again, my opinion.

Phil M:

I too am a big time fane of Lawsonia Links -- wish more people would play it because I am frankly perplexed with the amount of love shown for The Straits Course at WS.

Kyle:

To use your own words -- if BM is indeed better than BT then clearly the NM layout should be rated nearer to the highest level.

The Bandon layouts get plenty of ink because of the exposure they have received. Pac Dunes does deserve the high fanfare -- the other two have simply benefited from the "in the area" vicinity, in my opinion.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2009, 05:50:59 PM »
so, whos going to be nice enough and post the list? ;D
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tom Huckaby

Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2009, 05:52:40 PM »
Huck:

I think there is a bit of "star" architect preference. Again, my opinion.


I don't know one way or the other; and I got that you think there is.  My question is more this:  what are you gonna do about it?

 ;D

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2009, 05:59:22 PM »
Sheez,

I was thinking just about all of these courses would be stoked to be in the top 10 of a list like this.   ;)

I will only add this. I've played a few of these in this top 10 and I would be more than happy....make that absolutly estatic... to get back and play any of them.

Bravo and congrats to these fine clubs/courses and best of luck to each and every one of them for 2009!!

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2009, 06:06:21 PM »
Yes Matt, BM is walkable. Although I haven't played Bethpage Black, I suspect most would disagree with your opinion. Tilly didn't have the cartball crutch to depend on to transport you uphill to the next tee most of the time. I suspect Tilly didn't make walkers take a cart path around the ubiquitous gullies separating tee from fairway. I suspect Kalen could get on here and use Google Earth to prove the green to tee walks at BB are much shorter than they are at BM.

Why else would we have a 20 something gym rat saying it is not a pleasant walk on this thread?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2009, 06:25:50 PM »
The Golf Digest List should be coming out soon too, I think. Huck?


Mike_Cirba

Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2009, 07:00:56 PM »
Nice to see Boston Golf Club moving up...it's a superb course.

Did someone say Kingsley moved up?

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2009, 07:04:20 PM »
Bet you Chambers continues to move up the list - it's the Shadow Creek (meaning massive massive buzz) of this decade and it will benefit from the Am and US Open exposure.

BD continues to prove that raters DO take location and aesthetics into account - which means it does matter . . .

Arsenal win in a shoot out - AR-SAH-NAL!


K. Krahenbuhl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2009, 07:14:30 PM »
Kingsley and Chambers Bay both moved back a couple of spots.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2009, 07:19:15 PM »
Why is Monterey Peninsula Shore considered a modern when Augusta is still considered a classic?

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2009, 07:27:07 PM »
Kyle - Like no way dude? Really. I'm surprised.

Let's get the Bandon Dunes hating in order -

Which courses currently behind BD should be ahead of it (despite a few all world holes)?

Hopefully not Shadow Creek . . .

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2009, 07:27:54 PM »
Why is Monterey Peninsula Shore considered a modern when Augusta is still considered a classic?
Would that be because it underwent a complete redo by Strantz with the direction the holes were played being reversed?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Brian Cenci

Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2009, 07:29:46 PM »
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE POST THE LIST!

Also, good to see Greywalls in the top 100 finally.  Well deserved!

K. Krahenbuhl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2009, 07:40:30 PM »
Modern

1. Sand Hills (1 in '08)
2. Pacific Dunes (2)
3. Whistling Straits (3)
4. Pete Dye Golf Club (5)
5. Bandon Dunes (6)
6. Friar's Head (4)
7. Sebonack (14)
8. Ballyneal (13)
9. The Golf Club ( 8 )
10. Shadow Creek (9)
11. Muirfield Village (10)
12. Kinloch (7)
13. Old Sandwich (15)
14. Honors (11)
15. Spyglass Hills (16)
16. TPC Sawgrass (12)
17. Wade Hampton (19)
18. Ocean Course at Kiawah (18)
19. Chambers Bay (17)
20. Kingsley Club (18)
21. Calusa Pines (22)
22. Bandon Trails (21)
23. Colorado Golf Club (NR)
24. Dunes Club (29)
25. Dallas National (23)
26. Boston Golf Club (48)
27. Wild Horse (25)
28. Harbour Town (33)
29. Monterey Peninsula Shore (31)
30. Desert Forest (26)
31. Castle Pines (26)
32. Arcadia Bluffs (38)
33. Pine Barrens (30)
34. Galloway National (34)
35. Bayonne (32)
36. Blackwolf Run River (36)
37. Wolf Run (24)
38. Mayacama (35)
39. Cuscowilla (39)
40. Double Eagle (37)
41. Black Diamond Ranch (40)
42. Sutton Bay (41)
43. Paa-Ko Ridge (43)
44. Black Rock (54)
45. Quail Hollow (47)
46. Karsten Creek (42)
47. Long Cove (46)
48. Forest Highlands (49)
49. The Rim (50)
50. The Preserve (52)
51. Pronghorn Fazio (44)
52. Lost Dunes (53)
53. Trump National (63)
54. Briggs Ranch (36)
55. Fallen Oak (NR)
56. Eugene CC (61)
57. Sanctuary (51)
58. Old Farm (59)
59. Butler National (74)
60. Concession (45)
61. Cassique (75)
62. Black Sheep (56)
63. Victoria National (55)
64. Atlantic (65)
65. Shoal Creek (70)
66. Kapalua Plantation (62)
67. WeKoPa Saguaro (67)
68. Hazeltine National (64)
69. Crooked Stick (77)
70. Lahontan (57)
71. Pumpkin Ridge Witch Hollow (77)
72. Stone Canyon Club (80)
73. Harvester (58)
74. Ocean Forest (66)
75. Souther Highlands (71)
76. Powder Horn (69)
77. Jupiter Hills (81)
78. Hidden Creek (87)
79. Estancia (NR)
80. Whisper Rock Upper (68)
81. McArthur (NR)
82. Forest Dunes (84
83. Sea Island Seaside (82)
84. Valhalla (96)
85. Princeville (85)
86. Robert Trent Jones (NR)
87. Quintero (78)
88. Secession (91)
89. Flint Hills National (88)
90. Links of North Dakota (79)
91. Forest Creek North (76)
92. Greywalls (NR)
93. Seven Canyons (97)
94. Black Mesa (73)
95. Hawks Ridge (60)
96. Old Tabby Links (86)
97. Spanish Oaks (NR)
98. Caledonia (100)
99. Crosswater at Sunriver (92)
100. Golf Club at Ravenna (NR)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 07:51:19 PM by Kyle Krahenbuhl »

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's 2009 Best Of Lists
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2009, 07:53:16 PM »
VERY suprised to see Kinloch at #12...It's a Top 10...

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

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