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Steve_ Shaffer

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Tom Weiskopf
« on: March 25, 2009, 07:54:17 AM »
Good article by Al Barkow on Tom Weiskopf:

www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/columnists/2009/03/gw20090330barkow?printable=true


What course is his "lasting memorial to golf?"
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2009, 08:03:32 AM »
Loch Lomond is his own choice for his best design.

Isn't it in bankruptcy right now?  I hope it lasts.
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2009, 08:09:30 AM »
Loch Lomond is for sale and not in bankruptcy to my knowledge. Lyle Anderson,the developer, is restructuring his debt by relinquishing 4 of his projects to his lender. Superstition Mountain in AZ, another of his projects, is up for auction in April.



www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/2008/10/31/20081031biz-anderson1103-ON.html
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 08:11:57 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tim Nugent

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Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2009, 08:45:22 AM »
Unfortunately whenever I hear Tom Weiskopf, all I can think of is Jay Morish designs. 
Tom Doak,  good call on Loch Lomand, especially the back 9.  That front slope off #11? is incredible.  Miss a little, miss alot.

An interesting contrast is the 2 Troon courses,  the 1st Jay was involved with, the second he was not.
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John Nixon

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Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2009, 08:56:55 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on March 25, 2009, 08:03:32 AM

Isn't it in bankruptcy right now?  I hope it lasts.

The course, or the bankruptcy?
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Matt_Ward

Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2009, 11:17:47 AM »
I've always liked the many sides of Weiskopf -- anyone having the opportunity have seen him up close had to marvel at the effortless power and accuracy his swing brought to bear.

Proves the mental dimension is the key to the greats.

On the course front I have not played Loch Lomond but will say this - he has designed a number of fun and and interesting layouts. Don't have time to elaborate on all -- but places like Silervleaf are very good, ditto his work at Lahontan in the Truckee area and his underappreciated success with Snake River near Jackson, WY.

The Jay Moorish connection was well served by the two men but the idea that Weiskopf's design contributions ended when that relationship ended doesn't bear up from the ones I have seen in that post phase.
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Ronald Montesano

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Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2009, 11:34:51 AM »
Loch Lomond was almost his eternal memorial.  That's the joint where he went a-wandering around 3 am with some idea, got stuck in quicksand and went in up to his shoulders.  Somehow got out and lived to tell the tale.
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Steve Salmen

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Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2009, 11:43:14 AM »
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2009, 03:44:34 PM »
John Nixon:

I meant it would be a shame to see the Loch Lomond course go away (and I didn't mean to start any rumor about bankruptcy, I just had heard that it was struggling).  I don't like to see any course fail, and I have a little experience with that myself lately.

That said, Loch Lomond was a very expensive course to build -- difficult soils, even if they didn't have to move much earth -- and it's a very difficult place to grow grass with all the rain and cloud.  It is a very cool design but it was always going to be a struggle financially, unless they sold a bunch of memberships at unreasonable prices to people who weren't going to come over often.  The oft-mentioned "third owner" will probably have a better chance to make it work.
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Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2009, 04:06:18 PM »
"I made it, it just didn't go in."

That is classic.
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jeffmingay.com

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2009, 07:10:27 PM »
Tom's right, some poor draining soil there.  However, there's a really cool painting in the clubhouse.  When you look at this guy from different angles not only do you swear that his eyes are always looking directly at you but his shoes are also pointing at you too.  Really creepy.  The GM said when Lyle bought the place, the mansioin was in really bad shape.  When they started to clean it out, they found a large cache of old paintings in the attic.  Worth a small fortune.  Also loved the little Wiskey Bar (can't say Scotch because it's Scotland).
If you venture that way, the Cameron House just up the road is one of the nicest places I've ever stayed.
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Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2009, 07:56:55 PM »
Not a well-researched (or maybe fact-checked) story.

Quote
When he and Morrish ended their partnership of more than a decade—an amicable break...
  Here's Jay Morrish's letter to Golf Digest back in 2000 after a GD interview with Weiskopf where he threw dirt on Morrish:

Quote
April: Tom Weiskopf Dialogue on Golf

After reading the interview with Tom Weiskopf, I felt compelled to reply to his comments about our golf course design breakup. I really wish the issue of our partnership dissolution would just go away, but when he elected to take the low road in the interview and tried to hurt my son, Carter, it seemed that the real and hopefully final story should be told.

First, the conversation about Tom not wanting to pay one penny [of Carter's salary] because Carter wasn't a landscape architect never occurred. In fact, Carter joined my firm in 1989, and after that Tom paid Jay Morrish & Associates an hourly rate for all work that Carter did on our joint projects. It astounds me that if Tom felt so strongly about hiring only a landscape architect, why did he hire someone without that degree when we broke up? At that time we probably had a dozen or so employment requests in our files from people with degrees in landscape architecture. As a matter of fact, I don't recall seeing any kind of diploma on Tom's wall.

Actually, there were several reasons I wanted to escape. For a year or two before our split, I felt our personal relationship had deteriorated. I won't go into details, but anyone who has followed the Weiskopf career surely can read between the lines. The greatest reason for the collapse was that Tom could not stand for me to design a golf course without him. He had no compunction about playing golf, doing advertising to make a few hundred thousand dollars a year that he did not share with me, and still taking 50 percent of our fees, but he begrudged me the right to pick up any money on my own. I never took a job for myself that wanted a Weiskopf-Morrish design. (Believe it or not, there were many people who didn't want Tom involved.) I tried to take on only one job of my own per year so as not to have scheduling conflicts with our joint work.

In 1993, I was presented with another design opportunity and informed Tom of that. There was no response at the time, but about three months later he threw the worst of his tantrums and accused me of sneaking around behind his back. That was really the final straw, and I made the decision to end our partnership then and there. His representative from IMG drew up a press release that sugarcoated my decision, to which I agreed, because all I wanted was out. I want to emphasize that I would have made the decision to end our relationship whether or not I had a son or anyone else involved with my company. I had had it!

Well, that is the real, unvarnished story. I really don't ever want to discuss it again, but that's up to Tom. If he wishes to challenge this letter, I'm prepared to quote chapter and verse.

Jay Morrish, Flower Mound, Tex.
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Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 08:19:17 PM »
Great stuff Kevin.  There are a lot of Weiskopf stories out there.  Maybe it is best to just leave Morrish's comments as the final resting place.
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Tom Weiskopf
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 08:48:18 PM »
I said it was a good article. I don't vouch for accuracy. ;D
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”
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