Dr Mackenzie's Excellent South American Adventure

[Thomas Dai]

Has this ever been discussed on here?
http://alistermackenziefoundation.org/about/alister-mackenzie-timeline/

I don't know if this has been discussed herein before but the Timeline highlighted above is entitled 17th Revision whereas the Timeline version available on the UK Alister MacKenzie Society website is entitled 18th Revision - http://www.alistermackenzie.co.uk/files/8214/5434/5782/MackenzieChronology.pdf


A wonderful resource though and one that all involved in creating should be very proud of.


Atb

[MClutterbuck]

The timeline has a few things which are wrong and others that look to me as not quite right with respect to his days in Argentina.

1. Fray Bentos is in Rio Negro, Uruguay, not Argentina
2. Mar del Plata Golf Club is a Dentone design. AM was not involved in the current course, as discussed above
3. El Boqueron was never built, as discussed on several threads
4. Nautico San I.sidro was never built under his plans, as discussed on other threads
5. Club Mar del Plata (Acantilados) never built an AM course.
6. I find it hard to believe that the Jockey Club was seeded in June, winter. I believe the course was all bermuda, so seeding had to be in October at the earliest.

[MClutterbuck]

I need to find time to post photos of San Andres Golf Club, as well as El Desafio, but here is a small appetizer of San Andres, Mungo Park and Luther Koontz.

I have received a huge pile of pictures and documents. Unfortunately the club history is not well recorded and I am getting conflicting opinions about what I am seeing. At some point I will try to start a thread about all this if there is interest.



This is 2nd hole at San Andres Golf Club. The hole is similar to what exists today, however bunkering is much less interesting, slopes have been reduced significantly and the trees to the right of the green are overgrown.

This is supposedly the Luther Koontz redisgn and his drawing in 1935, fresh after having worked on the Jockey Club with Mackenzie.

The site is completely flat and all elevations are man made. You can see the 5th green just to the right, I believe these might have been a double green at some point. 

TD, if you are following I have a picture of current 10, a green you really liked as is now, but I believe you will find the old version much better.

[MClutterbuck]

Until now, all credit for the design of San Andres Golf Club was given to Mungo Park. The evidence I am now seeing indicates Luther Koontz is potentially responsible for much of the course as we see today, though sadly I think it was much better in 1935 than today. Unfortunately I believe a restoration is nearly impossible.

The old 11th hole, current 10th hole was one of 3 greens Tom Doak pinpointed as excellent. Below is the 1935 version that I again believe is Luther Koontz and not Mungo Park. This would have been shortly after finishing the Jockey Club and spending time with Dr. Mackenzie. Similarities?

[Thomas Dai]

MC,


Thanks for these details about San Andres. Nice to see the elevation cross-sections at the bottom of each photo.


I tried to examine the holes via satmaps without success. Do you happen to have a course map of SAGC you could post?


This thread may be worth cross-referencing. Amazing buildings, more English than England! -
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55759.25.html


Atb


PS - was Mungo Park involved in much other design work in Argentina and/or South America generally?

[MClutterbuck]

MC,

Thanks for these details about San Andres. Nice to see the elevation cross-sections at the bottom of each photo.

I tried to examine the holes via satmaps without success. Do you happen to have a course map of SAGC you could post?

This thread may be worth cross-referencing. Amazing buildings, more English than England! -
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55759.25.html

Atb

PS - was Mungo Park involved in much other design work in Argentina and/or South America generally?

Thomas,

It seems though the elevation at the bottom, which i agree is very nice to see, is done with a scale. It looks like a lot more elevation difference than there really is.

Below is a link to the course on Google Maps showing a winter course.

https://www.google.com.ar/maps/@-34.5605569,-58.5336889,1218m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

The coordinates for Google Earth are 34°33'41.30" S  58°32'03.84" W  and below is an end of summer view from Google Earth.



The thread indeed shows some of the nicest clubhouses in Argentina. Interestingly one of them was a private week-end home (Martindale). San Andres Club House also picture is a great English building, not more than 60 feet from the rail station.

I need to start a thread.
 

[Niall C]

MC

Many thanks for posting the old photos plans. I'm looking forward to hearing more about Luther Koontz's work and indeed that of Mungo Park. I'm sure the current Mungo Park who is on this discussion board would love to hear more as would the MacKenzie guys on anything you can find on MacKenzie.

All help gratefully received.

Niall

[MClutterbuck]

MC

Many thanks for posting the old photos plans. I'm looking forward to hearing more about Luther Koontz's work and indeed that of Mungo Park. I'm sure the current Mungo Park who is on this discussion board would love to hear more as would the MacKenzie guys on anything you can find on MacKenzie.

All help gratefully received.

Niall

If that is Mungo Park III, grandson of Mungo Park, he will probably know a lot more than I do. I know he has visited San Andres and probably has this same material.