[Adam Clayman]

The other day I received an email from a fellow poster who happens to be involved with a new course construction. He relayed an account of a situation where the architect was trying to figure out a routing problem, caused by a natural feature. He wrote that he and the architect were walking along and all of a sudden the architect walked about 200 yards away, turned around, walk another similar distance away from that spot and came back with a look that could only be described as the Cheshire cat look. In one fell swoop, the architect turned the holes in question around, creating a figure eight routing and simultaneously improving other adjacent holes.

In my book that's a moment of magic that would likely never happen off a topo map or sitting at a computer.

I have no reason to post this other than to share the story. The names are withheld because I didn't ask or receive permission to recount the recount.

It's probably obvious to many who this architect was , and was not.

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks for sharing that, Adam - a very neat story.

Moments like that must be the icing on the cake, unexpected touches of inspiration.

I'm guessing that hard work, talent, time, and psychic energy and attention end up producing such magic moments.

Everything is fed into the unconscious, and it percolates back there day and night, and -- if given a genuine chance -- produces the perfect answer. 

Peter

[SL_Solow]

Sounds like the guy who starts his routing by wandering the property until he finds something that "looks like golf".  From there its a big game of connect the dots.  A talent I wish I had.  those who attended our outing at Hidden Creek know who I am talking about.  Might not be him but it could be.

[Adam Clayman]

Shel,
 It wasn't that one, but... I've been wondering for a while now why a collaboration between the two hasn't yet been attempted.

Peter, the coolness of the moment was not wasted on my friend. Who by the way had an influential hand in the already existing course at this locale. hint hint.

[Ronald Montesano]

How to ruin a good post with a snide, condescending remark:

"It's probably obvious to many who this architect was , and was not."

Nah, we're not snobs.  Man, was I enjoying that post until the final sentence.  I'm guessing that the architect in question was one of Nicklaus, Trent II, Rees, Fazio or Hills.  It certainly wasn't Doak, Hanse or Methuselah (yup, he's still producing good courses!)

All good to great architects think outside the box, although not everyone's box appeals to the crew on GCA.

[Bill_McBride]

How to ruin a good post with a snide, condescending remark:

"It's probably obvious to many who this architect was , and was not."

Nah, we're not snobs.  Man, was I enjoying that post until the final sentence.  I'm guessing that the architect in question was one of Nicklaus, Trent II, Rees, Fazio or Hills.  It certainly wasn't Doak, Hanse or Methuselah (yup, he's still producing good courses!)

All good to great architects think outside the box, although not everyone's box appeals to the crew on GCA.

Actually I'm wondering if the initals "BM" might be involved..........

[Dave_Miller]

The other day I received an email from a fellow poster who happens to be involved with a new course construction. He relayed an account of a situation where the architect was trying to figure out a routing problem, caused by a natural feature. He wrote that he and the architect were walking along and all of a sudden the architect walked about 200 yards away, turned around, walk another similar distance away from that spot and came back with a look that could only be described as the Cheshire cat look. In one fell swoop, the architect turned the holes in question around, creating a figure eight routing and simultaneously improving other adjacent holes.

In my book that's a moment of magic that would likely never happen off a topo map or sitting at a computer.

I have no reason to post this other than to share the story. The names are withheld because I didn't ask or receive permission to recount the recount.

It's probably obvious to many who this architech , and was not.

Adam
That is not a "MAGIC MOMENT" That is just good architecture by a very GOOD Archy
Best  
Dave

[Ronald Montesano]

BM...Bob Marley?  Bowel Movement?  Bootsy McGillicuddy?  I give up.

[Adam Clayman]

Ronald, You appear to be a little too sensitive to that last remark.
 
There is a clear difference in HOW these designers work.

The ones who spend the time to walk the site (more than cursory), and the one's who don't!

[Adam Russell]

Adam,
 Did he find his stamp? 

[Roger Wolfe]

The other day I received an email from a fellow poster who happens to be involved with a new course construction. He relayed an account of a situation where the architect was trying to figure out a routing problem, caused by a natural feature. He wrote that he and the architect were walking along and all of a sudden the architect walked about 200 yards away, turned around, walk another similar distance away from that spot and came back with a look that could only be described as the Cheshire cat look. In one fell swoop, the architect turned the holes in question around, creating a figure eight routing and simultaneously improving other adjacent holes.

In my book that's a moment of magic that would likely never happen off a topo map or sitting at a computer.

This happened at our club when the architect walked a 42 acre tract we had just purchased adjacent to the golf course.  It was supposed to be a driving range.  In the end it became a new par 4, a new par 5 and a 7 acre lake.  The change meant everything to the renovation and the results are spectacular.

[Lester George]

Adam,

Believe it or not, these Magic Moments happen quite frequently in our business. 

I would bet my bottom dollar that the architect you are referring to already knew he was going to do that when he arrived that day.  He was already aware he had a problem and had considered his options before he got there.  He only walked to the different locations to "verify" in his mind that his theory was correct.  There-in lies the "MAGIC"!!!

Lester

[Roger Wolfe]

Adam,

Believe it or not, these Magic Moments happen quite frequently in our business. 

I would bet my bottom dollar that the architect you are referring to already knew he was going to do that when he arrived that day.  He was already aware he had a problem and had considered his options before he got there.  He only walked to the different locations to "verify" in his mind that his theory was correct.  There-in lies the "MAGIC"!!!

Lester

Did you have one of these moments when making the decision to keep the 19th hole part three at Kinloch?

[Kalen Braley]

Seeing how this thread is already getting a bit snippy.

One might call it a "magic moment"....but someone else might just call it actually performing your job and doing what your paid to do.   

[Lester George]

Roger,

Not really.

The 19th was depicted on an early routing and the owners embraced it.  I put it on there to compensate for the constraint of the dam and the distance to the clubhouse.  I always felt that it would be a nice "finish" by the house.

There were a couple "moments of magic" during the creation of Kinloch, the 19th wasn't one of them.

Lester

[Kirk Gill]

Such moments are important, in my opinion, to many creative artists. The two keys are being open to that moment happening and having the talent to see it and take advantage of it.

I've experienced these moments when making music - either when a "happy accident" results in a sound or a part that hadn't been anticipated, or when a bit of distance from the piece allowed me to bring a new approach to it that took things in a new, providential direction.

[Ronald Montesano]

Adam,

Perhaps, but someone always walks the property these days.  We're not talking Donald Ross and Topo Maps From A Distance anymore.  It may not be the principal, but it is the important person.  Hurdzan-Fry opened two courses in western New York in the past three years, yet neither Hurdzan nor Fry set foot on either.  Bill Kerman and David Whelchel, however, gave much of their time to courses that may not bear their name, but certainly bear their prints.  Same goes for the RTJII, Rees, JWN, Hills and any other postmodern designer who is not a revered and adored (on this site) throwback designer.  I find it to be irresponsible posting to make a snide comment like that one, especially when I enjoyed the first part of the post so much.

[RJ_Daley]

I can't figure out what is snide by making the observation, which even Mr Montesano acknowledges that "some" archies don't make too many if any site explorations, leaving it to their associates, despite many of their websites and promotional materials would lead you to believe they are practically out there doing it in the dirt themselves. 

Over time, perhaps in may become obvious to many of us who discuss these things, who archies are that do delegate such opportunities for that "magic moment" to associates, and who do still take the time to let one of those "magic moments" continue to rev up their creative juices. 

I think that many of us do believe we see a difference in a project that was delegated to associates, and those where the archie with his name on the door and business card, still get their hands dirty and put their boots on to go see in the field if there are some magic opportunities beyond the paperwork they review from what is sent them from the field.  Respect for associates is quite admirable.  But, how many associates are getting the credit for finding the magic that the boss didn't have time to come experience?  Just my impression.  Not trying to be snide at all. 

[Bill_McBride]

BM...Bob Marley?  Bowel Movement?  Bootsy McGillicuddy?  I give up.

I was actually thinking about a course in NM knowing Adam's ties to that state.

Sorry to stick a burr under your saddle there.

[Jeff Doerr]

I have a feeling a very cool thread is getting sidetracked...

I'd love to hear about specific holes and courses where this came together.

Ran's write up on Cypress makes me think about this "Moment of Magic":

The fact that the golfer walks right and up a dune as opposed to left and up a dune after leaving the 6th green speaks volumes as to how well routed the course is. While many architects might have seen the 7th hole, very few would have found the 8th with its requirement to hit over the shoulder of a dune. Fewer still would have had the courage to follow the 360 yard 8th hole with the 295 yard 9th. With a lesser architect, this three hole stretch would likely never have come into existence, which would have been a crushing blow to the quality of the course. 

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