[Craig Sweet]

Jeff....

I think you are right...a golf course doesn't need much in the way of amenities...

But a "club" does....

[Roger Wolfe]

Hey Jeff,

You and I both sound the same.  I would love to set up a hot dog stand and coolers full of beer.  However, there just aren't enough of us out there to support a golf course with an 800k maintenance operating budget and about 100k in capital needs per year.

The trick is to offer just the right mix of amenities to support not just the guys like you... but also the guys who appreciate the finer things (waitstaff, full bar, menu choices).  I am not saying we need fine dining... but even operating at a Bennigan's or Friday's or Chili's level still costs money.  Most clubs are split down the middle between the folks who want to work on THEIR OWN GAME and the folks who want to bring guests, families and entertain clients and what not.  We have been searching for that mix and are getting closer and closer every year.  We market ourselves as a "Golfers Club" with a pool and its worked... but in order to renovate our golf course for the 1st time in 80 years and repair our crumbling facilities... we had to take $$ from a different demographic than our traditional member.

Upscale, daily fee courses used the great golf/limited food model in the 90's into the early part of this decade.  Pay as you play... modest grill rooms with cold beer and good burgers... it worked until they built thousands of courses and your facility sat empty from Monday morning until Friday at 1 PM.  You filled the rest of the week with corporate and charity outings.  9/11 hit and the corporate money went away.  Then you had to pack them in during the only times you could get anyone to play and that created the 7 minute tee time and the 5+ hour round.    The guys who once played your daily fee were now looking for a private club since TIME replaced MONEY as the big factor.  Upscale daily fees were left behind and everyone started building homes and developments where greens and fairways once were.  Now the real estate market is dead so they just sit and grow over or are sold to a management company who squeezes whatever remaining value is left.  It's an ever-evolving curve that will continue to move back and forth.

I am rambling... but having spent many years in three very different facilities (single owner upscale daily fee, mgmt company club in a residential community, private member owned golfers club), I can't help myself.

[Roger Wolfe]

Jeff....

I think you are right...a golf course doesn't need much in the way of amenities...

But a "club" does....

Well said Craig...

[Craig Sweet]

Roger...

That is why I don't get the idea of a "social" membership..at a golf course....it just doesn't seem to pay for itself.

[jeffwarne]

Hey Jeff,

You and I both sound the same.  I would love to set up a hot dog stand and coolers full of beer.  However, there just aren't enough of us out there to support a golf course with an 800k maintenance operating budget and about 100k in capital needs per year.

The trick is to offer just the right mix of amenities to support not just the guys like you... but also the guys who appreciate the finer things (waitstaff, full bar, menu choices).  I am not saying we need fine dining... but even operating at a Bennigan's or Friday's or Chili's level still costs money.  Most clubs are split down the middle between the folks who want to work on THEIR OWN GAME and the folks who want to bring guests, families and entertain clients and what not.
crumbling facilities... we had to take $$ from a different demographic than our traditional member.

Roger,
I've been bringing guests to Palmetto GC for years.
No grille, no lunch, a golf course and tiny proshop with serve yourself hot-dogs beer and soda. Tiny staff-great pro.
Eat breakfast and dinner in town and play all day.
I've never gotten a complaint-only comments saying they wish their club were run that way-particularly when they find out what I was paying and what the beers cost.

They recently underwent a golf course renovation and added a tiny grille and upgraded the locker rooms. (no doubt due to a vocal member)
all very simple tasteful, and lower key than anywhere else, but....
last time I was there with guests we all complained -we miss the hot dogs and serve yourself beers.

Now of course as a manager, you or I can't come into a situation and begin pulling amenities so I understand your dilemna(and it sounds like you've got a nice mix), but a new men's grille won't be the END of your complaints.

[Sean_A]

Hey Jeff,

You and I both sound the same.  I would love to set up a hot dog stand and coolers full of beer.  However, there just aren't enough of us out there to support a golf course with an 800k maintenance operating budget and about 100k in capital needs per year.

The trick is to offer just the right mix of amenities to support not just the guys like you... but also the guys who appreciate the finer things (waitstaff, full bar, menu choices).  I am not saying we need fine dining... but even operating at a Bennigan's or Friday's or Chili's level still costs money.  Most clubs are split down the middle between the folks who want to work on THEIR OWN GAME and the folks who want to bring guests, families and entertain clients and what not.
crumbling facilities... we had to take $$ from a different demographic than our traditional member.

Roger,
I've been bringing guests to Palmetto GC for years.
No grille, no lunch, a golf course and tiny proshop with serve yourself hot-dogs beer and soda. Tiny staff-great pro.
Eat breakfast and dinner in town and play all day.
I've never gotten a complaint-only comments saying they wish their club were run that way-particularly when they find out what I was paying and what the beers cost.

They recently underwent a golf course renovation and added a tiny grille and upgraded the locker rooms. (no doubt due to a vocal member)
all very simple tasteful, and lower key than anywhere else, but....
last time I was there with guests we all complained -we miss the hot dogs and serve yourself beers.

Now of course as a manager, you or I can't come into a situation and begin pulling amenities so I understand your dilemna(and it sounds like you've got a nice mix), but a new men's grille won't be the END of your complaints.

Jeff

You and I are more or less on the same page where clubs are concerned.  However, one thing I really like in a club is that it serves breakfast.  Dinner I am not fussed about and lunch I can accept as standard, but I do love breakfast before playing late in the am.

You can keep the pool, sports room, tv room, card room etc etc.  A place to drink/eat indoors which spreads to outdoors with a view of the course, a small locker room with a few showers and Bob's yer uncle. 

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Sean,
a great old southern breakfast place right next door to where we stay at The Aiken Hotel.
(the hotel also has the best bar in town)

No need to muck up the golf course operation with breakfast

[Carl Johnson]

Jeff....

I think you are right...a golf course doesn't need much in the way of amenities...

But a "club" does....

Well said Craig...

The difficulty is that "efficiency" is in the eye of the beholder.  Sure, you can cut out this and that and reduce expenses, but if you not giving the "club members" what they want, then you're not being efficient.  Even in a club trying the "golf club" model as contrasted with the "country club" model, members have a wide variety of interests, extras, they'd like.  It's really a balancing act, and not an easy one at that.  My "golf club," which aspires to be a golf club only, not a country club, maintains a swimming pool.  This is not a water hazard (although I know of at least one an errant drive - not mine - that found its way into the pool), so it has nothing to do with golf.  However, without the pool I think we'd be toast, particularly in today's market.

[Roger Wolfe]

The difficulty is that "efficiency" is in the eye of the beholder. 

This is so true Carl.  We have newer members who think our amenities are bare bones... we have long time members who think we offer way too much.  Very frustrating indeed!

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