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TEPaul

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2009, 05:23:50 PM »
"Re Macdonald, his overt self-promotion certainly lead to widespread info. and knowledge about the great courses overseas and the idea of "golf architecture" in general out to "the masses" for the first time, don't you think?
I'll never fault him for this contribution."


Jeff:

I most certainly wouldn't either. I'd definitely tend to praise him for going that public. All I meant to imply was others who had come before him with some of the very first pretty great American architecture like Leeds of Myopia were just intensely private about what they were doing COMPARED TO how Macdonald went about NLGA and promoting it and its idea. 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 05:47:42 PM by TEPaul »

Dean DiBerardino

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Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2009, 05:34:03 PM »
Mike:

The modern pic is the 13th at Mayfield as well.  Sorry about that.....

TEPaul

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2009, 10:32:57 PM »
"Tom,
When did Travis' "infamous" remodel of Garden City take place? Wasn't it 1902, or thereabouts?"


Jeff:

According to Bob Labbance's biography of Travis, "The Old Man", Travis made some semi-critical remarks of the greens and such at GCGC and some suggested changes in 1906 (he had begun to write) which apparently hurt his formerly close relationship with his friend and clubmate, Dev Emmet.

The club apparently decided to try some of Travis recommendations in late 1906 and from that he worked on architectural changes to GCGC (being on the Green Committee) for the next ten years or so. And then he got involved again in the 1920s.

In the fall of 1899 Travis got involved with John Duncan Dunn in laying out Ekwanok in Vermont for James Taylor. Apparently Dunn left after the routing but Travis stayed on for close to two months designing up the course and overseeing construction.

After winning a few US Amateurs and being the first American to win the British Amateur in 1904 put him at the top in American golf, including architecture and instruction on how to play the game. At least that seems to be how some of the prominent golf magazines of the time described Travis.

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2009, 08:41:01 AM »
Tom,

Thanks.

I should have referenced my own essay on Garden City that features in Volume 4 of Paul Daley's Golf Architecture, A Worldwide Perspective series before posting! Everything you've posted above reminds me of writing this piece... and my admiration for Travis as a pioneer golf architect, and real talent.
jeffmingay.com

TEPaul

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2009, 09:24:50 AM »
Jeff:

I guess it should be mentioned that Travis seemed to have gotten pretty "top-of-the-curve" knowledgeable for that early time on golf agronomy too, certainly with greens. I'm pretty sure anyone who knew anything about golfers back then probably considered him to be the best and the last word on putting too.

I don't think it's any secret that part of the emanation of the on-going Schnectedy Putter issue was that the British felt he basically putted everyone else's brains out over there in 1904 when he became the first American to win the British Amateur. Obviously Travis always felt the British didn't appreciate his talent and basically blamed his win on his unusual putter and then the other side (R&A) tried to make it illegal.

I've always felt the falling out between Macdonald and Travis which was mostly over the Schnectedy Putter issue apparently was sort of unfortunate because Macdonald did not really agree with the other side that the putter should be banned. I think Travis basically blamed Macdonald because he felt it was a conflict of interest that Macdonald also served on the R&A Rules of Golf Committee as well as on the USGA's.

Most of Travis' early criticism of some of the prominent American courses in the early years including GCGC was that their greens were too bland.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 09:35:48 AM by TEPaul »

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2009, 12:22:54 PM »
Tom,

Trying to blame an "illegal putter" on Travis' 1904 British Am victory is comical history! Funny.

I recall reading that most of the field really treated him badly throughout the championship as well, which speaks to Travis' will, too. Very cool.
jeffmingay.com

Mike_Cirba

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2009, 01:18:08 PM »
Tom,

Travis also seemed to write crtitically of the "cross bunker", suggesting that modern, scientific courses had bunkers placed in more thoughtful positions.   

The more I read of his early writings the more convinced I become that he was really the most fundamental early distributor of architectural knowledge.

Macdonald was more public, and more vocal, but he was also more isolated and focused on a few courses.

Travis travelled extensively and had huge positive influences on early courses from New England, to Long Island, to the mid-Atlantic, and as far south as Pinehurst and even Florida.

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2009, 02:02:06 PM »
Mike,

What was Travis involved with in Florida, in the early days of the 20th century? Interesting. Florida really was little more than a swamp then, wasn't it?

Seems Travis and Macdonald shared an important trait, too, which certainly helped them influence the development of golf course architecture in North America... they were both extremely opinionated! Which, under such circumstance, isn't necessarily a bad thing!

I'm sure this same shared trait also lead to their eventual rift!
jeffmingay.com

Mike_Cirba

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2009, 02:38:50 PM »
Mike,

What was Travis involved with in Florida, in the early days of the 20th century? Interesting. Florida really was little more than a swamp then, wasn't it?


Jeff,

I should be very careful, as I haven't yet found anything that specifically cites Travis as the architect of the early Florida courses, which were built by Alex Findlay and John Duncan Dunn, and others.    Ed or Ian may have more info in that regard.

However, he was playing in tournaments on Florida courses as early as the turn of last century, among them Ormond, West Palm Beach, and a number of others.  Given his prominence in the game, as well as his growing interest and involvement in designing courses pretty early on, I find it likely that he had some input in Florida, much as he did at his other primary winter retreats, Pinehurst#2 and Lakewood, in NJ.

Here's an example from 1906, although he was playing in Florida by 1899.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9506EED9103EE733A25754C1A9649C946797D6CF



Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2009, 02:49:16 PM »
Neat article, Mike. Thanks for posting the link.

Tiger can sympathize with Travis' problem with the photog down in Florida... photog snaps his camera as Travis is teeing off -- in 1906, imagine! -- causing him to top his drive and make a 7! And, like Tiger, he still wins the tournament!

I can only dream of having had opportunity to listen to Travis and Donald Ross talk golf, course architecture and agronomy during early 20th century visits to Pinehurst. Pretty neat stuff.
jeffmingay.com

Mike_Cirba

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2009, 03:00:37 PM »
Jeff,

No Travis in this article, but fun stuff nonetheless that gives a sense of how many courses already existed by 1908 and the pros associated with them.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=940DEEDD113EE233A25750C1A9649D946997D6CF

TEPaul

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2009, 07:00:01 PM »
"Tom,
Trying to blame an "illegal putter" on Travis' 1904 British Am victory is comical history! Funny.
I recall reading that most of the field really treated him badly throughout the championship as well, which speaks to Travis' will, too. Very cool."


Jeff:

It may be a bit hard for us today to appreciate just how strong national pride was in top flight tournament golf between America and the other side back then, not to mention that the other side had always been completely dominant in many of the national championships certainly including our own US Open and certainly their Open and Amateur. It's not hard to say it was a bit of a jolt to the other side when an American won their Amateur championship for the first time. It was probably something like a father (GB golf) being beaten by a young son (American golf) and not being at all happy about it.  ;)

And the thing that made the on-going effort of some on the R&A Rules of Golf Committee to deem Travis' putter illegal is that at that time there really was very little to no I&B standardization or Rules and Regulations and so it wasn't as if Travis' putter came close to violating some existing I&B rule or regulation because at that time there really wasn't any rules and regs. The R&A basically had to think up some reason why the Schnectedy Putter should be illegal and they found the fuel for it in some question that had previously been asked them by a golf club I think on the other side of the world about a putter that was in some way similar the Schnectedy. It's more amazing in that I think that club was asking the R&A if something constructed like a croquet mallet could be used to putt.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 07:07:52 PM by TEPaul »

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2009, 07:06:10 PM »
Tom,

As you know, I've done A LOT of historical reading and research. But, I have no idea why they figured Travis' Schnectedy Putter should be illegal. If you know, tell me!

Thanks in advance,
jeffmingay.com

TEPaul

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2009, 07:29:34 PM »
"Tom,
As you know, I've done A LOT of historical reading and research. But, I have no idea why they figured Travis' Schnectedy Putter should be illegal. If you know, tell me!
Thanks in advance,


Jeff:

Do you have Macdonald's biography "Scotland's Gift Golf?" If so the entire Schnectedy Putter thing (that took years to resolve) is in there in specific and vivid detail. The fact is Macdonald was sort of in the Cat Bird Seat throughout the whole thing because he was the only man who served for years on the Rules Committees of both the USGA and R&A. You can find it in the sections in the book on the USGA.

Most people interested in Macdonald and golf course architecture have never read those particular chapters of his book very carefully that deal with the administration of the USGA because they don't have anything to do with golf course architecture.

But they do show another area of Macdonald's life and times in golf that is no less important. If one reads those particular sections carefully they will not fail to see that Macdonald was remarkably facile in such things as "Roberts (administrative) Rules of Order" and in an administrative protocol sense and how clever he could be in wrapping hot issues in a labyrinth of resolutions and such that might make a point that could be interpreted in many ways by different people as well as be even nonbinding in certain aspects etc to give those an out who wanted an out by some interpretation. In a sense he was expert in constructing complex administrative logic to sort of make an issue disappear while essentially keeping both sides happy somehow.

Essentially Macdonald was in every way the constant advocate of unification of American golf with the other side and its traditions and Travis essentially was an advocate in various areas for the burgeoning and innovative spirit of "American Golf" independence from the other side. This put the two men eventually on something of an ultra dynamic road and some eventual collisions of philosophy. It's just so ironic that Macdonald actually supported the legality of the Schnectedy Putter but Travis blamed him nonetheless.

Macdonald felt (and actually said) that he thought the barometer of the success of a national golf association is how few questions they were asked!  ;)

This is why I've said a number of times that we need to know more about the other areas of Macdonald's seminal postion in American golf other than golf architecture. The man really was a massively complex character, and in some areas like I&B standardization just when you think a purist curmudgeon like him should be all for it he actually turns out to be just the opposite for some other fascinating reasons that have some grounding in the tapestry of golf that he knew somewhere else such as the old days of St. Andrews when he was a college guy there in the early 1870s.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 07:46:39 PM by TEPaul »

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2009, 07:39:11 PM »
Tom,

Of course I have Scotland's Gift  :)

But, obviously, it's been too long since I've read the entire book (probably 10 years). And you're right, even back then I'm sure I FOCUSED on the golf architecture segments of the book, not the boring (!) stuff on the USGA!

I may need to revisit Scotland's Gift... better reading than modern mainstream media, I'm sure  :(
jeffmingay.com

TEPaul

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2009, 07:51:11 PM »
Jeff:

If you think you might have some problems putting this Schnectedy Putter issue (or the relationship between Macdonald and Travis in that area) in the proper historical context it belongs just give me a call. We owe each other a phone call anyway.

I have a great interest in golf architecture and the history of architecture but the other subject I've been just as interested in and for a lot longer is the history and evolution of the Rules of Golf which of course also include I&B Rules and their history and evolution.


"even back then I'm sure I FOCUSED on the golf architecture segments of the book, not the boring (!) stuff on the USGA!"

It is boring and more than a little complex, including the development and the evolution of the Rules, both the playing rules and the development of I&B Rules. Macdonald was very much a proponent of what is sometimes called the "Conservative Party" on the Rules as opposed to what has been called the opposing "Equity Party."

There isn't much question that in the 20th century the "Equity Party" with both the playing rules and I&B rules has won out over the philosophies of the old "Conservative Party."

It's quite interesting for us today to understand that most of those old heavy-weights in golf and architecture we all venerate in architecture from the old days were proponents, like Macdonald was, of the "Conservative Party" with the Rules.

One could probably even make the case that in some ways it very much played into their philosophies and their practical applications with golf course architecture.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 08:03:22 PM by TEPaul »

Rich Goodale

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2009, 10:56:55 AM »
Jeff and Tom

The problem with the Schenectady putter was that it was center-shafted, I believe.

Rich

TEPaul

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2009, 11:34:25 AM »
"Jeff and Tom
The problem with the Schenectady putter was that it was center-shafted, I believe."

Richard The Observant:

I know and that's why the R&A dredged up the lame reason that it might be too much like a croquet mallet!   ??? ::) ;)

Ed Homsey

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Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2009, 09:45:26 PM »
There is so much in this thread to respond to, I don't know where to start.  One question I have is this:  what documentation is there that MacDonald and Travis had a disagreement about the Schenectady Putter.  The USGA did not support the R&A's ruling, so where would they have a disagreement.  I would welcome seeing the documentation about such a disagreement.  They were both strong personalities, so I'm sure they didn't see eye-to-eye on everything.

Also--if there is any suggestion, in this thread, that the Brits banned the Schenectady because of Travis's 1904 Brit Am victory, that is dead wrong.  It didn't take place till 6 years later, and it was a ban on center-shafted putters which just happened to include the Schenectady.  Us Travis fans don't believe that it was in retaliation for Travis's victory.

Back OT:  It is so great to hear Mike Crba refer to the influence of Travis in the 1900-1915 period of time.  In 1902, he wrote a seminal piece in Golf expressing his opinons about the purpose and design of hazards.  It was a marked departure from the Willie Dunn concepts that made use of cross-bunkers.  Travis's concept was to place bunkers strategically and asthetically.  It was the beginning of his crusade against the prototypic cross-bunkers used by designers such as Bendelow. 

A 1901 visit to the UK left a lasting impression on Travis about the use of natural features for hazards and greens.  His Dec. 1901 Golf article gives a great account of his observations and conclusions.

Travis became a member at Garden City Golf Club in 1899.  Soon thereafter, he became Chairman of their Green Committee, a post he held for 10 years.  Following his victory in the U.S. Amateur in 1901, held at Garden City Golf Club, Travis began a concerted effort to bring his course up to the standards that he felt it deserved.  He lengthened the course, added many bunkers, and reworked most of the greens.  The results of his work were unveiled at the 1908 U.S. Amateur.  Some have said that those results earned him the reputation of a "penal" designer.  Others insisted that his changes required "thinking golf".  Nevertheless, it put his name on the map of golf course designers.  It is true that, later, friction developed between Travis and Emmet, and in the 1920s, Emmet undid many of Travis's features at GCGC.  But, some of Travis's work remains, including the renown Travis bunker on 18.

It is good to see that some have included Ekwanok CC among the best courses during this era.  Travis played a major role in the approval of the golf course site as well as the design and construction of the Ekwanok course.  It is likely that he drew a lot of design knowledge from John Duncan Dunn, who collaborated with him in the design of the course; but, while Dunn returned to NYC, Travis remained during the construction of the course.  It was a course that received great acclaim upon its opening, and of course, was the site of the1914 U.S. Amateur, won by Ouimet.

There is also good evidence that Travis was an influence on Ross's decision to enter the field of golf course design.  In addition. there is documentation that suggests that Travis came up with the name National Golf Links of America for the course that is now associated with CB Macdonald.  Apparently, Macdonal wanted to call it the National Golf Course of America.

Also within this time period, with a 1910-11 Travis remodeled course, the CC of Buffalo was able to host the 1912 U.S. Open.  They had commissioned Travis to bring their course into championship form.  Though outside this time period, Travis did the same thing at Columbia CC in Chevy Chase--remodeled the course in 1915, and it hosted the U.S. Open a few years later.  He may have been the first U.S. Open Doctor.

Questions have been asked about Travis's work in Florida.   We have records of his consultation at just two Florida courses:  Palm Beach Club and Ormond Golf Club.

Any discussion of this type for the years 1900-1915 have to include Travis, though some of his best work lies beyond that period of time:  his 1917 rework of Hollywood Golf Club, etc.

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2009, 08:02:06 AM »
Ed,

Are you saying that after Travis reworked Garden City, the course's original designer, Dev Emmett, came back again, and undid much of Travis' remodel work? Just curious.

I've always understood that much of what Garden City is today should be credited to Travis.
jeffmingay.com

TEPaul

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2009, 08:26:12 AM »
"There is so much in this thread to respond to, I don't know where to start.  One question I have is this:  what documentation is there that MacDonald and Travis had a disagreement about the Schenectady Putter.  The USGA did not support the R&A's ruling, so where would they have a disagreement.  I would welcome seeing the documentation about such a disagreement.  They were both strong personalities, so I'm sure they didn't see eye-to-eye on everything."


Ed:

Perhaps unfortunately for some of the "fact demanding" minds on here, it doesn't seem that Macdonald or Travis actually ever stated in writing they were having or did have a disagreement over the entire Schnectedy Putter issue.

However, if and when one reads what either or both said about the issue, even years later, it's pretty hard to miss that there was some kind of disagreement between them or at least dissatisfaction with each other between them over this issue. In my opinion, most of the vituperation seemed to come, back then, particularly from Travis and his point of view as he did write an article or a few in which he both took to task the other side for trying to ban the putter, as they were considering doing, and I believe he also criticized Macdonald in print as having something of a conflict of interest for serving on the USGA AND R&A Rules of Golf Committees in the midst of this very public controversy.

It seems he felt if one (in this case Macdonald) was going to represent the interests of American golf and an American golfer involved in some equipment dispute issue with the other side, it was wholly inappropriate to serve on the Rules Committee of the other side TOO. I believe Macdonald was the only one then, or perhaps ever, to actually serve on both Rules Committees. Of course there was a particular reason for that in the beginning (shortly after the USGA formed) but that was not Travis' point or interest later. The Schnectedy Putter issue was.

The Schnectedy Putter issue lasted quite a long time and it was huge apparently evoking national pride and competitiveness on both sides. Even the President of the United States weighed in on it at one point.  ;)


Also, Ed, there is this cryptic remark from Macdonald about Travis and NGLA from his book written in 1928:

"As I stated in my agreement to associate with me two qualified golfers in America, I asked Jim Whigam and Walter Travis as associates. Eventually I dropped Travis......"

He doesn't say WHY he dropped Travis but it is probably somewhat indicative that this was the very same time that Schnectedy Putter issue was on-going.

Don't you think placed all together this kind of evidence seems to suggest they had some kind of disagreement?  ;)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 08:36:07 AM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2009, 08:43:25 AM »
Ed:

Regarding how and when Travis became involved with the architecture of GCGC, the following is what I gleaned from Bob Labbance's biography of Travis entitled "The Old Man."


"Jeff:

According to Bob Labbance's biography of Travis, "The Old Man", Travis made some semi-critical remarks of the greens and such at GCGC and some suggested changes in 1906 (he had begun to write) which apparently hurt his formerly close relationship with his friend and clubmate, Dev Emmet.

The club apparently decided to try some of Travis recommendations in late 1906 and from that he worked on architectural changes to GCGC (being on the Green Committee) for the next ten years or so. And then he got involved again in the 1920s."


I got to know Bob Labbance on various courses and research projects over the years and I always found him to be a very fine researcher and reporter on what he found, and remarkably objective too. Of course, there will probably always be a certain dynamic with those who are particularly concerned and interested in various architects----eg some think others try to unnecessarily and inaccurately glorify some of them while those being accused of that almost always deny it, and very vociferously!  ;)

I find it incredibly ironic, at this point, that practically the last words Bob and I had were at Waynesborough a few years ago on this very point. I said I was all for the unvarnished presentation of those people and subjects from back then, warts and all, and even if it included some of the things they said and did which may seem to us today to be particularly politically incorrect.

He said, he couldn't agree more, and unfortunately that was the last time I spoke with him or saw him.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 08:54:51 AM by TEPaul »

Ed Homsey

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Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2009, 01:14:04 PM »
Jeff asked:  "Are you saying that after Travis reworked Garden City, the course's original designer, Dev Emmett, came back again, and undid much of Travis' remodel work? Just curious.

I've always understood that much of what Garden City is today should be credited to Travis."

From my experience at Garden City, it is made very clear that Emmet is regarded as the designer of their course, though Travis is held in high esteem for his contributions to the course, but most of all, because of his incredible accomplishments as an amateur golfer.  A room in their clubhouse is dedicated to Travis and Travis memorabilia, and their 100th anniversary book devotes chapters to Travis and his amateur golf career.  There is some space given to his work on the course as Green Committee chairman from 1899 to 1911.

I cannot give you details of what is left there from Travis; I'm unable to glean that info from their anniversary book.  Will check with their historian to see what he would say about that.  I do know that the deep bunker to the left of the par 3 18th is a Travis bunker.

In the Cornish/Whitten "Architects of Golf", they state that "Emmet had the last say" (in the ongoing debate between he and Travis) in the design of the course when his remodeling undid some of the Travis features in 1926.  It is amazing to me that the Golf Club was as tolerant of Travis as they were, given his rants about the condition of the course following his tenure as Green Chairman.  In one response to one of his letters, they took what appears to have been a called-for jab at Travis by lamenting the fact that he had turned down their invitation to become more active in the supervision of golf course maintenance.

TEPaul:

I appreciate the reference to Macdonald's comment, i.e. "Eventually I dropped Travis...".  I've often wondered what happened.  There were references in Golf such as, "The committee to lay out the course will be Walter J. Travis, C.B. Macdonald, H.J. Whigham, and D. Emmet".  (Golf, Jan 1907, pg 50)  Another item, in a later Golf article stated that "The National Golf Links of America was laid out, primarily, by three men--Mr. Chas. B. Macdonald, Mr. Walter J. Travis and Mr. Devereux Emmet."  It goes on to describe how the "three men tramped over the ground in its rough state...".  It does seem apparent that their relationship was contentious, at times.  I think the Old Man was a bit of a thorny character.  Not that C.B. was much different.  In his defense, I've not encountered any criticism specifically targeting C.B. in any of Travis's writings.  Travis was certainly vocal about the center-shafted putter issue and was supportive of the USGA charting its own course in the matter.  If you read his June 1910 American Golfer editorial, in response to the barring of Centre-Shafted Clubs, you'll see that his main concern was that such as ruling to lead to the "standardization".  He credited the "Rules of Golf Committee" (R&A's) with having "done a great deal of good for the game", but was of the opinion that they "overstepped their limit" and had taken action that "is the first step toward standardization".  He goes on in his column to describe his concerns about the standardization of golf equipment.  At one point, he says, "If a man can putt better--or think he can putt better--with an umbrella, for instance, by all means let him so do."  A bit extreme I think, but he was trying to make a point.

TE::  re your remarks about Bob Labbance, GCGC, and "unvarnished presentation:   Bob was a special friend from whom I learned the lessons of careful research and reliable documentation during the time we were assembling information for his writing of The Old Man.  The past few weeks I've finally been able to go through the Travis files he turned over to the Travis Society a few weeks before he passed away.  The organization and thoroughness of the files are impressive, though not at all surprising.  So, if he wrote something, you could take it to the bank that it might his high standards for reliability.  But, he was also of the opinion that our knowledge of Travis continued to grow after the production of The Old Man.  To the extent that he prepared a proposal for writing Travis book II.  His loss was a significant loss for each of us.

Travis was Green Chairman at GCGC from 1899 until 1911.  From trips to the UK, in the late 1890s and early 1900s, he became acutely aware of the short-comings of golf courses in this country.  Those trips shaped his thinking about the design of golf courses, and were a major influence in his 1899 design work at Ekwanok, in collaboration with John Duncan Dunn.  So, it was a natural for him to take on the job of Green Chairman, and to begin thinking of how GCGC's course could be improved.  His 1901 U.S. Amateur victory at the Atlanta provided the impetus, and the authority, to revise the GCGC course.  He used the Haskell ball in that victory, and it was his belief that the "bounding billies" would render many courses out-dated because of the distance one could achieve with them.  Thus, according to the GCGC history, "Travis returned to Garden City insisting that the course had to be lengthened if it were to remain a championship venue."  The course was lengthened to 6400 yards "making it the longest course in the country at that time".  According to the GCGC history book, Travis filled in cross-bunkers, added deep green side bunkers, introduced deep pot bunkers, and rebuilt greens over a span of several years, culminating in the unveiling of his changes at the 1908 U.S. Amateur.  The GCGC history points out that during his decade as Green Chairman, the course "was regarded as Travis's course".

I'm not sure what to make of your comments about the "certain dynamic with those who are particularly concerned and interested in various architects".  Perhaps just an editorial comment, eh?  But, if I understand what you're saying, I couldn't agree more, with you, and most certainly, with Bob.

TEPaul

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2009, 04:11:35 PM »
Ed:

In your first paragraph to me above it seems that Macdonald and Travis may've been on opposite sides of a sort of general philosophical issue resulting from the Schnectedy Putter issue while perhaps being on the same side on another philosophical issue also somewhat resulting from the Schnectedy Putter issue.

It seems neither Macdonald nor Travis supported "standardization" in I&B, particularly "I", but there's little question that perhaps Macdonald's single greatest concern was to preserve a form of general unification in most all things to do with golf in America with the other side, while it appears Travis was more for the idea of "American Golf", if you know what I mean. :)

The real rift, or as Macdonald described it, "rift in the lute" seem to come in 1901 when incoming USGA President R.H. Robertson called for "American golf" (apparently some intended departure from how things had been done or were done abroad) Clearly this very much worried and upset Macdonald.

Also don't forget, Robertson and Travis went abroad together in 1901, and just before leaving somebody fairly bothersome created quite the stir with the USGA by quesitioning Travis's amateur status. I think Robertson dealt with that issue fairly swiftly and it looks like Macdonald was on board with him.

In the final analysis Travis did not like that Macdonald served on both Rules Committees and I'm quite sure he said that in print.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 04:13:33 PM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re: Architectural History in North America 1900 - 1915
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2009, 04:23:39 PM »
"I'm not sure what to make of your comments about the "certain dynamic with those who are particularly concerned and interested in various architects".  Perhaps just an editorial comment, eh?"


Ed:

Don't worry about that; I realize you haven't been on this website all that long, probably thankfully for you. ;) That sort or refers to some of the things that have been said on here over the years about certain people regarding their concentrated interest in certain architects and their courses. There have been some significant (and lugubrious and adverserial) threads on here where some accuse others of glorifying the lives and times and work of some architects, and probably a proportionate push-back ;) from those being accused of that on here. I'm sure you've heard of some of the infamous Merion or even Pine Valley threads, for instance, and what a few on here have said about how Philadelphia only glorifies their own architects and minimizes and denigrates anyone from the outside who had anything to do in this area.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 04:28:20 PM by TEPaul »

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