One More Pasatiempo Thread

[Bill_McBride]

Anyway, I love this sort of feature especially as I think there is some very clever bunkering up short of the green which artfully disguises some dead ground.  Do folks drive into this swale and how awkward is it to get out?  This to me is where architecture really shines.  Seemingly innocent features that can pose little niggling problems, but aren't so awful that guys won't take them on. 

Sean,
Here's my lie on the 14th from last year's KP.  I think I hit 7 or 8 iron out of it with no real difficulty (at least no more than any other iron shot  ) other than just a lack of comfort with the shot.  It does feel awkward but I love the feature.  It would seem that the desire to avoid it creates more problems than just dealing with it.

Notice how that ball settled down in the flat with a good lie?  I have never seen one stay on the slopes, and I don't mind the shot out of the swale at all.  I think you actually also get a bit of a boost from rolling down in there.  Great feature on a very underrated hole.

[Tom Huckaby]

Love this - more converts for 14, which I have said several times is my favorite par 4 on the back nine... considering the competition, a very tall statement...

Bill - in winter and other wetter times, the ball stays on each side of the swale. In fact my last time there I had a ball on the downslope and that complicates things for sure!  In any case it just adds to the coolness of the golf hole, I think - there really is no one clear best way to play it.

[Ross Waldorf]

Ha! I knew I could eventually snare Tom Huckaby into my thread if I dangled a little Pasatiempo nibble out there for a day or two. So that's your FAVORITE hole on the back nine, Tom? That's very cool. It's definitely a great hole because there's "no one clear best way to play it."

But, boy, picking a favorite on the back nine is very, very hard. There are so many fantastic golf holes out there. You know you're in for a big treat as soon as you step onto 10 tee and get that shot over the barranca with the brow of the hill in the distance just begging you to see what's over there.

[Tom Huckaby]

10-11-12-14-16.. and now even 17... all great golf holes.  Picking the fave is always gonna be just a matter of taste.

And talking about Pasatiempo is an addictive drug!

 

[Ross Waldorf]

I really like 15 quite a bit, too. It's a neat jewel that shows up in just the right place. Might not be a truly great golf hole, but it sits so beautifully into that little corner it occupies, and it's a pretty little hole. I was at Ojai last weekend and was thinking of 15 at Pasatiempo when I played 3 at the Ojai Valley Inn, which is a tiny little hole that's also tucked neatly into the routing. I'm really fond of little par 3s, I guess . . .

13 doesn't seem to get the big love around here, but it's a nice hole, too, I think -- the cross bunker 100 yards in from of the green makes me think when I hit a shot anywhere near it. And 18's no slouch either. Just thought I'd round out your post, Tom, by adding some commentary about the 3 holes you so (cruelly) refused to acknowledge. Don't want any hurt feelings for the holes that failed to make the cut!

[Tom Huckaby]

Ross - I thought we were discussing the par fours.

 

[Bill_McBride]

Love this - more converts for 14, which I have said several times is my favorite par 4 on the back nine... considering the competition, a very tall statement...

Bill - in winter and other wetter times, the ball stays on each side of the swale. In fact my last time there I had a ball on the downslope and that complicates things for sure!  In any case it just adds to the coolness of the golf hole, I think - there really is no one clear best way to play it.

I try to avoid California during the monsoon season - which is when the Kings Putter usually takes place. 

[Ross Waldorf]

10, 11, 12, 14, 16 -- whaddaya know, all par fours! How did I miss that? Clearly I have dropped the ball and failed to pay close enough attention. Sorry about that, Tom -- I am new to this forum, and can be a bit slow on the uptake . . .

[Tom Huckaby]

Ross - no problem, it's all good.  Heck I love 13, 15, 18 also.  Great 9 holes of golf.. front nine pretty darn awesome too.

Bill - we control it that way to keep out the weak.

 

[Ross Waldorf]

Tom,

Well, having lurked around here for a few years, one thing that is quite obvious to me is that trying to get you to wax poetic about Pasatiempo is not all that difficult. Clearly a man of taste . . .

And, yeah, the front nine is pretty darn awesome, too.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

Well, having lurked around here for a few years, one thing that is quite obvious to me is that trying to get you to wax poetic about Pasatiempo is not all that difficult. Clearly a man of taste . . .

And, yeah, the front nine is pretty darn awesome, too.

LOL!
I do so love the course.  But wax poetic gives me way too much credit.

BTW... when did you play and how were conditions?  LOTS of rain up there the last 4 months....

[Ross Waldorf]

I played a week ago Saturday, which was a very nice day. The rain came in again the following morning, I think. Conditions were nice, although not perfect. It was a bit wet -- nothing major, but some of the low areas were kinda squishy. They were going to aerify on the following Monday, and I thought the greens were very nice, but perhaps could have been a touch smoother. This coming from a public course player, by the way, so I don't have expectations for perfection.

All in all, though, I had absolutely zero complaints, really. In this dopey day where they charge $275 or whatever to play Grayhawk in Scottsdale (I'm trying desperately to remember ONE hole on that course and coming up mostly blank), $220 to walk Pasa is just a (I know it's ludicrous) bargain. And that coming from a guy who used to play Bethpage Black before the renovations, back in the late 80s/early 90s. They charged a premium back then for the Black, I think -- it was like 19 bucks. Groan.

[Tom Huckaby]

Well Ross, I feel your pain..... I used to play Pasatiempo for $15 in the early 80s.  But I guess it remains cool one can play it at all... and relative to other courses it does remain reasonable.  I just find that sad.

In any case you really lucked out last Saturday! It had rained pretty much all week before that... and has off and on for several months.

Thanks for the report.

TH

[Ross Waldorf]

I'm sure if I'd played it for $15, I'd be way more pissed off about the price now. But I think your point, Tom, about it being cool one can play the course at all, is a very important one. This is a subject that I often muse on -- and I mentioned to the pro shop staff that I really do think the membership at Pasatiempo should be commended for keeping it open to the public.

For a public course player interested in golf architecture like myself, it always remains a frustration how difficult it is to play many of the great courses, at least in the United States. So for a club with a venerated Alister Mackenzie course to continue to maintain public access, even at a relatively high price, is really top shelf in my book. I thank the membership for the opportunity to drop in and sample their wonderful golf course. I've appreciated it each time I've been there.

[Damon Groves]

Anyway, I love this sort of feature especially as I think there is some very clever bunkering up short of the green which artfully disguises some dead ground.  Do folks drive into this swale and how awkward is it to get out?  This to me is where architecture really shines.  Seemingly innocent features that can pose little niggling problems, but aren't so awful that guys won't take them on. 

Sean,
Here's my lie on the 14th from last year's KP.  I think I hit 7 or 8 iron out of it with no real difficulty (at least no more than any other iron shot  ) other than just a lack of comfort with the shot.  It does feel awkward but I love the feature.  It would seem that the desire to avoid it creates more problems than just dealing with it.

Notice how that ball settled down in the flat with a good lie?  I have never seen one stay on the slopes, and I don't mind the shot out of the swale at all.  I think you actually also get a bit of a boost from rolling down in there.  Great feature on a very underrated hole.

My home course, Santa Anita in Arcadia CA, has some holes with fairways like this and I have played Pasatiempo. The lie is not the hard part but it is getting the ball up quick enough to not hit it into the hill ahead of you. Many times you end of having to talk a more lofted club than you wanted just to get the ball up. Great stuff.

[Ross Waldorf]

That's an interesting comparison, Damon -- it hadn't occurred to me but thinking about your post I can really see the tie-in. I've played Santa Anita many times, and while it's not in the class of Pasatiempo ($23 green fee, anyone?), it's a really great, sporty course with way more architectural merit than most of the courses I've played in LA county. And it does have some really fantastic funky swales and fairway contours that make for real fun. 14 and 18 in particular, and there are some great features in the 3rd, 7th, 9th and 16th, too, come to think of it . . .  That's a really neat golf course. It was my go to before Rustic Canyon was built in '02.

[Jordan Wall]

This was very favorite hole on the course.  Steve Pieracci played a beautiful 4-iron to 3 feet en route to a birdie against me, so getting the ball up is not an issue from the swale.

I drove past the swale in the middle of the fairway and after watching three shots from behind that, I was very indecisive on what to do with mine.  I ended up playing the wrong shot and leaving a 40 foot putt across a very good green, promptly 3-putting.  I think front pins are best played with a driver off the tee, and a 3-wood to back pins so as to hit a longer club in and let it release from the front of the green.  It's such a wonderful hole with so many options.  I love it.

Cheers,
Jordan

[Sean_A]

Anyway, I love this sort of feature especially as I think there is some very clever bunkering up short of the green which artfully disguises some dead ground.  Do folks drive into this swale and how awkward is it to get out?  This to me is where architecture really shines.  Seemingly innocent features that can pose little niggling problems, but aren't so awful that guys won't take them on. 

Sean,
Here's my lie on the 14th from last year's KP.  I think I hit 7 or 8 iron out of it with no real difficulty (at least no more than any other iron shot  ) other than just a lack of comfort with the shot.  It does feel awkward but I love the feature.  It would seem that the desire to avoid it creates more problems than just dealing with it.

Notice how that ball settled down in the flat with a good lie?  I have never seen one stay on the slopes, and I don't mind the shot out of the swale at all.  I think you actually also get a bit of a boost from rolling down in there.  Great feature on a very underrated hole.

My home course, Santa Anita in Arcadia CA, has some holes with fairways like this and I have played Pasatiempo. The lie is not the hard part but it is getting the ball up quick enough to not hit it into the hill ahead of you. Many times you end of having to talk a more lofted club than you wanted just to get the ball up. Great stuff.

Damon

Getting the ball up quickly is what I had in mind.  I don't know what the wind is like at Pasa, but this is a great feature when the wind prevails against play.  Its a pity the swale isn't used more often out in fairways because they are clever alternatives to bunkers - especially if the second requires some hitting.  There is a lot to be said for a hazard whose penalty is the loss of choice of ball flight.

Ciao

[Damon Groves]

Sean -

Absolutely. Adds a kind of risk reward situation on its own. Do I want to play the club with the distance to get to the green but risk the flight being too low or take the sure club with enough loft but know it will not get to the green. Makes for some excellent strategic golf and another reason why I love my little gem Santa Anita.

Damon.