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Niall C

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Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #100 on: May 03, 2014, 07:44:02 AM »
Course - would need to be links and preferably with a second course adjoining such that it is easy to skip between the two and make up your own routing (thinking Lossiemouth here). Hardly any walk between holes. No boundary fence, if someone wants to walk across the course to get to the beach then let them. No blaes/gravel paths, as little signage as possible.

Clubhouse - ideally stone built a hundred odd years ago, should be less than an ideal layout with enough compromises to be made to make it quirky (thinking Kilspindie). Dress code, casual will do.

Staff - minimal amount of employees with no uniforms, club logos etc, and definitely no caddies or indeed ride on buggies.

Now who gets in ? Well anyone who is happy to golf all year round, is happy to tee it up in all sorts of weather, doesn't mind joining up with other golfers he (or she) doesn't know, who will happily buy a round at the bar afterwards (or before), isn't at all stuck up about prestige and is only in it for the golf and a bit of company. Anyone who fits that general profile would be good enough for me.

Niall


BCowan

Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #101 on: May 03, 2014, 08:11:49 AM »
''I was too until I got to Charlie Parker''

Donna Lee

Bob_Garvelink

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Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #102 on: May 03, 2014, 09:02:19 AM »
Course Name: Royale with Cheese

Course Info:  Heavily wooded Northern Michigan course with extreme elevation change.  There would be a number of elevated tee shots and all par 3"s would be less than 170 yes.  Additionally, the course would be short with the tips maxing out at 6500 yards and the member tees being around 6200 yds.  Greens would be lack major undulation but would roll faster than the winner of the Indy 500.  I would prefer the par 5's to be reachable in two for big hitters and a few par 4's that are reachable off the tee.  This would be a course where accuracy off the tee is essential.

ClubHouse:  very simple cabin with small bar

Favorite Dining option: Royale with Cheese

Who's Allowed to Golf?  Anybody

Cost $2500 a year for family or $45 greens fee with $30 twighlight

Dress: No denim but changing shoes in Parking lot is a must!
"Pure Michigan"

Terry Lavin

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Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #103 on: May 03, 2014, 09:06:58 AM »
A course with drama, fun and excitement on a piece of dunesland that provides a brisk walk, as no carts will be allowed. A small clubhouse whose minimalist design will be in harmony with the course it serves. A professional staff that doesn't necessarily include a PGA professional. In fact, I'd go with grinder golfer types to run the show because they will understand that the allure of the club is the competition and fun on the golf course. For food, we'll have the pros cook burgers, sausage and chicken on outside grills, because we won't need a kitchen. Keep the membership under 100 most of whom are members elsewhere, to keep the volume of play at a nice level.  I'd make the course a nine-holer which saves on the maintenance and makes it a little different. And as an act of goodwill, I won't charge for the first three guests they bring out any day of the week.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 09:09:03 AM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Terry Lavin

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Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #104 on: May 03, 2014, 09:11:13 AM »
Oops, I forgot to mention that I'm already a member of that club, the Dunes Club in New Buffalo, Michigan. Thank you, Mike Keiser.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Patrick_Mucci

Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #105 on: May 03, 2014, 11:12:24 AM »
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits

BHoover

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Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #106 on: May 03, 2014, 11:16:07 AM »
I would hire the GolfNow.com Old Tom Morris to serve as the official starter.

Carl Nichols

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Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #107 on: May 03, 2014, 12:01:20 PM »
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits

Gib's premise was that there were no financial constraints . . .

Patrick_Mucci

Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #108 on: May 03, 2014, 12:17:32 PM »
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits

Gib's premise was that there were no financial constraints . . .

I wasn't referencing anything to do with finances


RJ_Daley

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Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #109 on: May 03, 2014, 01:31:25 PM »
I'm happy to say I haven't changed my mind after 12 years and 106 posts later... ::) ;) ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

JMEvensky

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Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #110 on: May 03, 2014, 02:02:07 PM »


Course Name: Royale with Cheese



Favorite Dining option: Royale with Cheese



Pulp Fiction references should always be highlighted.

Carl Johnson

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Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #111 on: May 03, 2014, 04:08:00 PM »
Question: I start my own club (that is, it's private and I own it).  Who gets in?  That is, what are the membership requirements?

No limitations based on the usual no, no's, such as race, religion, age, sex, sexual preference, disability, political affiliation.

However, jerks, a--holes, loud-mouths, perpetual whiners and those who exhibit prejudices based on any of the above shall not be admitted.

Must exhibit an interest in playing golf according to the USGA rules and traditional etiquette.

I have the final say - as a membership committee of one - based on such other criteria as I deem appropriate on a case to case basis.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 04:10:36 PM by Carl Johnson »

Gib_Papazian

Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #112 on: May 03, 2014, 09:48:30 PM »
I'll echo the sentiments of Dick Daley that my opinions have not changed much in the last 12 years, especially watching the dilution of my home base by a conga-ling of 30-something, cigar smoking, hubris-infested money changers; nothing was ever the same after the government slithered into our door and I see no hope cleansing our temple of blowfish who have no clue the difference between an intimate golfing enclave and an overblown, CCFAD factory. Thank gawd most of them refuse to play the Ocean Course.

Santa Gib is keeping a list of whose been naughty and nice; let me assure you there will be no clown boys allowed at Redan Hills.  If you're going to trumpet the need to grow the game, be careful which orifice you shove the mouthpiece into. I recall a "When Golf Was Good" thread many years ago and the older I get the more tearfully I recall the good old days.

The one thing I would change from the previous era was the level of racial and religious prejudice, of which there would be none at Redan Hills. Donald Sterling may have been set up by a whore and I hope for the sake of America he is not forced to sell his team, but he's also not getting into my club under any circumstances under the "no assholes" rule. Trump is out too. I may admire his determination, moxie and chutzpah, but not in my grill room.

Come to think of it, the best teacher by 100 miles at my club is a black dude who I've always thought would my first choice as Head Pro at Redan Hills. I wonder how long he's going to have to wait for the plum job he deserves; it seems like half the club pro's I meet are empty-headed schmucks who look and sound like extras in a surf movie. The bleach job with too much hair jell always gives it away.

It occurred to me that after starting this thread, I rewrote part of it as a column for ANG News/Times. As I recall, we got quite a bit of comment about it, including an angry letter from an insane lesbian who was offended I had not specifically mentioned gender neutrality. She was an older gal from one of the local women's golf clubs and even took the time to complain to my editor - who happened to be the legendary Dave Burgin. Dave told me I ought not be surprised people get pissed off with some of the inflammatory shit I put in print.

One thing I did add to the column was an unconditional ban on politicians. "Party affiliation is irrelevant, no exceptions." Since what seems like half the California Legislature is facing charges of corruption, graft, tax evasion and even offshore gun running, it appears my absolute distaste for the slime balls who run our once-great state is well founded. I've amended the bylaws that politicians are unwelcome as guests and not allowed to set foot on the property. See Louise Renne and the Olympic Club - "Exhibit A."

As a retort to my column, my expat brother Rhic Goodale penned his own version I ran the next week - and then promptly moved back to Scotland for good.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PLEASE FORWARD TO ANG SPORTS. THIS IS A GOLF COLUMN FOR THE TUESDAY SAN MATEO TIMES.
By Gib Papazian

Several weeks ago, we conjured up mythical Redan Hills Golf Club from the best ideas over a lifetime of experiences. Apparently, the idea of starting a club is a fantasy shared by many of our readers. We are still receiving responses and suggestions about a column that has somehow taken on a life of its own.

Richard Goodale, a longtime reader and friend, sent us a retort so impossibly clever I feel compelled to print it for your enjoyment. Evidently, he took exception to the private and insular nature of Redan Hills in favor of a far more egalitarian set-up.

Goodale will be returning to Scotland next month with his family to raise kids - and hopefully to organize a club based on his unique vision. Here is an edited version of his letter to the Times:

Dear Gib,
One of the finest and most fascinating things about golf is that golfing friends of similar experience can envision their "ideal" club almost 180 degrees apart! And yet, I'm very sure I would enjoy Redan Hills as much as you would enjoy the Old Links at Strathwhinn. So much for the pleasantries………….

Strathwhinn, being a links, has no "hills" to speak of, just an infinite series of randomly dispersed mounds and hollows. It does not have a "Redan" hole and anybody who even suggests that it ought to is immediately put on "double-secret" probation.

It is, of course in the Kingdom of Fife. As Hillaire Belloc once said about wine: "The first duty of a wine is to be red. The second is that it be a Burgundy."

On the same note, I say: The first duty of a golf course is to be a “links.” The second is that it be in Scotland.
In terms of the club, mine would have the following"characteristics:"

</button> Strathwhinn will be very much a public course. Various categories of "membership" are available (daily, weekly, fortnightly, seasonal, yearly, senior, junior, local, walk-ons, etc.) but all are subject to non-renewal at the end of any term. No other privileges for any class of member.

</button> All "members" will be subject to the sanction of "time out." Just as in kindergarten, this will be for misbehavior and entail a loss of all club privileges for a period of time.

</button> Strathwhinn will not employ a double-barrel named, anal retentive, retired British military officer to run the place. Some cheerful middle aged woman named Maggie will do just fine, assisted by a few lassies and laddies to help out during the busy months.

</button> We will have the same old pro year after year (he summers at my club and winters at Redan Hills), but he has no official duties except to occasionally sell sweaters, golf balls and faux club ties. He must have a questionable history, be a raconteur and not averse to a drammie or two.

</button> There will be assistant pro's, but rather than being well paid as at Redan Hills, they (or their sponsors, college, parents, etc.) will pay Strathwhinn for the privilege of a 2-year "residency." It will be one of the most sought-after posts for an ambitious young golf professional.

</button> The Greenkeeper will be highly competent, but not draw a lucrative salary. If he or she wishes to leave, the existence of Strathwhinn on the resume will guarantee a highly paid job at places like Redan Hills or Wentworth.

</button> He or she will have a large and cheerful staff, taken mostly from the local population. They will all be enthusiastic, with a thorough understanding of how to maintain a course with playability in mind.

</button> There will be a tennis club down the street and a local cricket club. A Strathwhinn "membership" will come with fishing privileges at a wee loch up in the hills.

</button> Unlike Redan Hills, there will be no "Dormy House" at the club. Players will be encouraged to frequent local establishments for accommodation, meals and non-golf oriented camaraderie.

</button> Much of this will be found at the club as well, of course. Strathwhinn will have a simple menu and legendary craic.

</button> We will not, however, have any wines priced at more that $10 retail. In fact, if a player wishes to drink any sort of wine in the clubhouse, it will be made difficult for him or her to find one of their liking.

</button> Beer and spirits will reign. The scotch of choice will be the "Strathwhinn Highland Malt" bottled for the club, and sold at a reasonable price.

</button> The course will have been a piece of scruffy land that the great-nephew of the owner claims used to be a golf course. It will be bought at an estate sale.

</button> The founders will hold a design competition which will consist of sending a disguised topographic map to every golf course architect we have ever heard of, asking them to send us back a routing.

</button> We will keep their ideas and tell all of them they lost the job. From their drawings, we will assemble a routing and hire the best unemployed golf hole shaper available to live in the village, hire and train some assistants and do his stuff.

</button> The designer of the course will always be listed as "The Singularity."

</button> I, Richard Goodale, will be in charge. There will be 20 or so founders who kick in a few grand, participate in the design of the course, and have playing privileges for the first year. After a while I might allow a "committee" of sorts, but they would have no power except that of possible persuasion.

</button> All holes will be subject to renovation, restoration, complete rebuilding, or even demolition. The course will be reversible and in common with St. Andrews, several tournaments will be played each year "back to front."

</button> All this is contingent upon me winning the lottery. Hope to see you soon in Scotland.

Cheers,
Rich Goodale


                

« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 06:44:49 PM by Gib Papazian »

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #113 on: May 03, 2014, 10:33:46 PM »
I will gladly admit to access whoring-- I want privileges at each of your clubs. The newsletter alone would be worth the initiation fee.

BCowan

Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #114 on: May 03, 2014, 10:43:41 PM »
Redan Hills sounds wonderful, but I prefer Rich's Strathwhinn
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 06:33:49 AM by BCowan »

Michael Whitaker

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Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #115 on: May 04, 2014, 12:21:32 AM »
Oops, I forgot to mention that I'm already a member of that club, the Dunes Club in New Buffalo, Michigan. Thank you, Mike Keiser.

I was going to say... I thought you were describing a real place! About as cool as it gets!!!
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #116 on: May 04, 2014, 02:34:26 PM »
Rihc,

You wrote:

"</button> There will be assistant pro's, but rather than being well paid as at Redan Hills, they (or their sponsors, college, parents, etc.) will pay Strathwhinn for the privilege of a 2-year "residency." It will be one of the most sought-after posts for an ambitious young golf professional.

</button> The Greenkeeper will be highly competent, but not draw a lucrative salary. If he or she wishes to leave, the existence of Strathwhinn on the resume will guarantee a highly paid job at places like Redan Hills or Wentworth.


Internships are coming under much attack in the USA and here you are advocating stiffing a young man or woman out of a few shillings.

I think John Major came up with the line about "The unacceptable face of capitalism".

I remain Sir,

Your Hon. servant.

Karl Marx


Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #117 on: May 04, 2014, 05:10:33 PM »
Two courses.

The first will have a par of 73 and stretch to 6,800 yards. I might put some other tees in further back, thus topping 7,000 yards, but only to allow me to then charge LESS to visitors wanting to play them, just to confuse the poor idiots that equate length with quality. The Pro Shop will have CCTV, just so as to capture their bemused expressions.

The other course will only stretch out to 6,000 odd yards but par will only be 68. The second course will widely be accepted as the better of the two. Again, the green fee will be accordingly more, much to the bemusement of the idiots.

One course will be pure links, the other, due to a very pleasant geological quirk, will be heathland. Between the two will be two excellent 9 hole, par 3 loops. TD can perhaps add a putting course.

Access to the main courses will be, as used to be the norm in Britain, limited to golfers with handicaps. The par 3 course will be open to all and sundry. Needless to say, no discrimination on the basis of gender, race, sexually orientation etc. I'll consider excluding anyone I know to come from a discriminatory club, just to see how their libertarian ideals react. And as a final principle regarding access, juniors, subject to holding an adult handicap, are permitted to play in ALL club competitions. I had my time taking the candy when I was a kid and now it's their turn. If you didn't play golf as a kid, it's not their fault. Anyone moaning about them not paying as much, getting better too quickly or just generally growing up will be asked to consider who really needs to grow up.

The clubhouse will be a fine but understated building, converted from a big old farmhouse. I have no idea who thought it would be an idea to farm this land but then that's why we picked it up at a good price. The main restaurant will have a Michelin star but there will be a second menu of old favourites and three courses of whatever the chef finds to his or her fancy at market that morning.

No staff uniforms as such, just clean white shirts and black trousers/skirts in the restaurant and bar. And yes, in keeping with the lack of discrimination, men may wear skirts if they absolutely insist! Absolutely no logos. And on the subject of staff, free membership for all.

Dress code on and off the course should be, as a a minimum, proper golf attire. However, jackets and ties are not required.  

All are welcome to apply to join the Greens Committee, subject to receipt of their thesis on golf course architecture. If the usual sort of characters suddenly and mysteriously feel less inclined to put themselves forward for office, it'll be a committee of one. Well, two actually as our outstanding Green Keeper will be joining me. Occasional input will be sought from various archies, all of whom will be granted free membership for life.

Full seven day membership should cost no more than £1,500, with reductions for everyone under 40 and those over 70.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 06:56:12 PM by Paul Gray »
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #118 on: May 05, 2014, 01:49:47 PM »
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits

Gib's premise was that there were no financial constraints . . .

I wasn't referencing anything to do with finances


Then you will have to explain, rather than play hide-the-ball.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #119 on: May 05, 2014, 02:32:25 PM »
Interesting to see who's still postin' after all these years...

My club already has a name; only one other person besides me knows it, but he's likely forgotten it. Check that, might be two, can't remember on one person. That's the only thing my club has right now. Well, that and the fact that the apparel guy is good to go.

Only three members: me, Mike Nuzzo and Don Mahaffey. They have the right to kick me out, should the need arise, but the vote has to be unanimous. Sorry to everyone else - almost all of you will have full guest privileges, but my inability to say no means I must really restrict voting membership. I failed my only other significant choices in life, so this time there will be no choices.

The notion of having my own club is what started my interest in architecture, some 15+ years ago. I was closer then than I am now...
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #120 on: May 05, 2014, 03:08:27 PM »

Quote
This may offend some, but one very nice quality in a potential member is someone who pays their dues regularly but really doesn't play very often.

For example: a person who belongs to other clubs in town and has a wife that doesn't like them hanging out at the "golf club" on weekend afternoons.

I fit that profile to a tee!  The only time I'm able to play is at 5:30 a.m. on Saturdays at a local course with some friends, while I play monthly fees somewhere else.  They need more people like me!

Funny to read this 12 years later...I only recently quit the club that I wrote about....my patronage of the club hadn't changed over that time period.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #121 on: May 05, 2014, 03:21:41 PM »

Quote
This may offend some, but one very nice quality in a potential member is someone who pays their dues regularly but really doesn't play very often.

For example: a person who belongs to other clubs in town and has a wife that doesn't like them hanging out at the "golf club" on weekend afternoons.

I fit that profile to a tee!  The only time I'm able to play is at 5:30 a.m. on Saturdays at a local course with some friends, while I play monthly fees somewhere else.  They need more people like me!

Funny to read this 12 years later...I only recently quit the club that I wrote about....my patronage of the club hadn't changed over that time period.

There's nothing wrong (and many things "right") about being a member of a club where a good chunk of your fellow members have memberships at other clubs.  That's one of the great things about Dunes Club.  I would venture that 80% of the members view it as their "second club", and many are members at two or more other clubs.  Rounds are obviously going to be lower as a result.  The downside is that it can be hard to "get a game" at places like this, so new members wind up always taking guests until they can find a regular game at the club.  Keiser's attitude at the Dunes is that he doesn't want to penalize a member who can't get a game, so he doesn't charge for the first three guests that one brings on any given day.  It's a great thing, because if you have your pals pay for their caddie, you're only paying for beverages and burgers, so it's a pretty easy decision to bring a lot of guests over the course of the summer.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Patrick_Mucci

Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #122 on: May 05, 2014, 06:36:21 PM »
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits

Gib's premise was that there were no financial constraints . . .

I wasn't referencing anything to do with finances


Then you will have to explain, rather than play hide-the-ball.

Carl,

If I have to explain it to you, it clearly indicates that you've graduated from MIT to full moron status.

Start with caddies rating members and two dings resulting in members being thrown out.

Go back and reread the posts and if you can't recognize the absurdity of the posts, well you may be on your way to becoming a grand exalted moron.


Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #123 on: May 05, 2014, 07:04:12 PM »
Must love the game FAR more than they love themselves (outwardly at least).

2 day interview

-18 at prospective member's current club
-Dinner & drinks at PM's current club or favorite local restaurant/hangout
-18 at Gringo Shores Club (designed by Jim Lipe, Kurt Bowman and yours truly)
-Lunch at GSC with a few club members (likely to include Ron Riemer, he'll  be around most of the time)
-Invitation is extended or not at some point during the next 30 days.

Clubhouse is a modest yet tech heavy glorified sports bar.

Chef name is Mariana, she says the word and you're out (careful now). WVU games take precedence... ALWAYS. Yes, even when we are 3-7 and Bama is playing Auburn.

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You have started your own club - who gets in?
« Reply #124 on: May 07, 2014, 01:21:14 PM »
What's amazing is how absurd and out of touch with reality the guidelines/rules are.

But I guess fantasizing has it's benefits

Gib's premise was that there were no financial constraints . . .

I wasn't referencing anything to do with finances


Then you will have to explain, rather than play hide-the-ball.

Carl,

If I have to explain it to you, it clearly indicates that you've graduated from MIT to full moron status.

Start with caddies rating members and two dings resulting in members being thrown out.

Go back and reread the posts and if you can't recognize the absurdity of the posts, well you may be on your way to becoming a grand exalted moron.


I'll agree there were a couple of bad ideas---out of 123 posts. 

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