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Craig Sweet

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Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #100 on: February 27, 2009, 01:44:28 PM »
Lou also like to trot out this myth that 40% of workers do not pay any taxes...of course everyone that works pays taxes....and I've seen the Tax Foundation study that this comes from...it assumes that a family earning $35,000 a year also can claim $15,500 in itemized deductions...and that is totally whacked....

It's funny, but those deductions that get a middle or low income family to zero tax liability he considers a terrible thing...and those that cut a huge chunk from a very high wage earner he considers a right.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Carl Johnson

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Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #101 on: February 27, 2009, 01:46:41 PM »
On a related development, Wells Fargo has announced they will honor Wachovia's commitment to the Wachovia Championship in Charlotte, but this year the name will be changed to the "Quail Hollow Championship."  In other words, Wells Fargo will put its money in, but does want its name on a golf tournament.

Craig Sweet

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Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #102 on: February 27, 2009, 01:50:11 PM »
Craig E....

Well...60% of those borrowing money for home buying actually qualified for a conventional loan, but were SOLD a sub prime loan buy the mortgage agent.

I would wager the sales pitch was "look, with this ARM loan you can buy that $300,000 house instead of the $250,000 house...your payments will be the same as with the $250,000 house and by the time the ARM changes you'll have a $300,000 house worth $350,000...so it works for you"  Sure, I smart person might think, yeah, but my income is not going to go up...

No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Craig Van Egmond

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Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #103 on: February 27, 2009, 02:01:34 PM »
Craig S,

        I'm sorry but that's where a little personal responsibility comes in, do a little research. If something sounds to good to be true it probably is.

        The 40% thing is supposed to be as related to income taxes and is misused as much as the 95% tax cut.. Clearly everybody pays  federal taxes for cigarettes, gasoline, phones, etc. We also pay taxes on our electric bills, gas bills, property taxes, use taxes, personal property taxes, luxury taxes, excise taxes, state income (most states), alcohol and sales tax.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 03:07:17 PM by Craig Edgmand »

Brent Hutto

Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #104 on: February 27, 2009, 02:07:39 PM »
It's been about a decade since we last moved and both our Realtor (tm) and the mortgage agent we used were politely but insistently mystified by our insistence on what we thought was quite an expensive budget but was a small fraction of what they thought our income and history indicated we "should" spend. And I know of one acquaintance several years back who had a hell of a time finding a house they wanted which cost enough. They were bound and determined not to fail to live up to something like the maximum mortgage they could afford to carry.

There's a set of social norms around credit and particularly mortgage credit that I doubt very much has been seriously affected by the last year or two of Trouble. I we were to by some miracle dig ourselves out from this landslide a year or two hence I predict it will take our society a remarkably short time to return to the expectations that were prevalent c. 2005 but which would have seemed outrageously, insanely out of line as recently as the 1980's and early 90's. In other words, people still expect to get back to the Free Lunch Forever era and the politicians are gladly acting in accordance with that expectation as they plan enormous deficits into the indefinite future.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #105 on: February 27, 2009, 03:03:59 PM »
Quote
We no doubt disagree vehemently, but we are in the present mess primarily because of vote-buying, populist Democrat policies positing that people who can't afford houses should still have them, financed by the private sector forced under the power of the gun and facilitated with implicitly government guaranteed mortages provided by Fannie and Freddy.-Lou Duran

This is like a father blaming the mother for having the baby.

The 108th Congress ('03/'04), controlled by Republicans, had *7 House and 1 Senate resolutions pertaining to FMae/FMac in front of them. They sent them all to committee and no further action was taken on any of them, possibly because their president was pushing his 'home ownership' plan at the time. There goes demonizing "populist Demoratic policies" as the culprit.
In the 109th Congress('05/06), controlled by Republicans, the House overwhelmingly approved HR 1461 by a bi-partisan vote of 331 to 90. It was named the Federal Housing Finance Reform Act and it would have created stronger regulation of FMae/FMac. The Senate received the House bill at the end of October, but did nothing on it before the session ended, effectively killing it.
In the 110th Congress,('07/'08) controlled by Democrats,  HR 3221 was introduced in July '07 and finally passed into law in July, '08. It had reforms and regulation of FMae/FMac at its core.


*H.R. 2022
         2117
         2575
         2803
         2997
         3507
  & S.1656
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 03:21:11 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Lou_Duran

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Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #106 on: February 27, 2009, 03:43:47 PM »
Jim Kennedy,

If you suggest that the Community Reinvestment Act, affordable housing initiatives, and Fannie and Freddy are not primarily Democrat programs and institutions, then you are even more partisan than I thought.  I have said time and time again that the Republicans have responsibility in creating this mess, though I disagree that "deregulation" and markets and capitalists gone wild have nearly as much to do with it.  Obama's solutions are precisely the things that got us into trouble, and doubling or quadrupling down is not going to make the fundamental problem go away.  If the Republicans were marching lockstep with the President, I would be very critical of them.

Unfortunately, Republicans are people too and they also prefer to be liked.  We knew that of Bush in Texas.  I am not aware of anyone who knew him to believe that he was a conservative.  He is a very social person, one who enjoys people and wants to be liked.  As governor he took great pride in his relations with the opposition, setting a new tone as he called it.  He was a centrist to the core and I think he ruled like one.  His biggest mistake next to Iraq was his refusal to use the veto pen in order to get along.  His overtures to Kennedy on education and expansion of Medicare with the prescription plan were driven purely by his style of populism.  He was an apple that didn't fall far from the tree, and should have been very pleasing to many on your side.  The left's pent-up hatred following Reagan's historically successful presidency and Clinton's impeachment made the better tone impossible and the "worst president ever" campaign was inaugurated even before Bush took the oath.  With a complicit academy and press, it became easy to cast him as a villain and it paved the way for a man of such limited qualifications as Obama to rise to the nation's highest office.

Come to think of it, maybe the guys who sold bad mortgages to unsophisticated borrowers were the same who sold Obama to similarly limited electors.  Nah, that couldn't be.  Overconsumption caused the crisis, so we should now really overconsume to overcome the problems.  Quite a conundrum indeed.

Craig Sweet,

You get people back to work by having people pulling things off shelves at the supermarket.  People do this when they have work and are optimisitic about the future.  The stock market has not fallen a couple of thousand points since Obama was elected because people have confidence that his plans will work.  We know from vast experience that government is wasteful and irresponsible.  Giving it more money to be more wasteful and irresponsible doesn't engender confidence.  Instead, it leads responsible consumers to postpone purchases and squirrel away resources for the rainy day.  I was prepared to buy a house and a car as late as last night.  This morning I asked the property manager for a six month lease proposal.  She is happy, my realtor will not be.  And when Obama tells me that he is going to tax me some more, I am going to have to make it up somehow and that will likely means less golf and fewer purchases.  It may make you feel good that he is taking my money to give to someone else, but that ain't going to put food in any more peoples' mouth.  If you have kids, you must know that money earned is spent much better than money received without effort.  It is relatively simple, but if you can't understand why people in NY should not be building a swimming pool in MT, then maybe it is not.

Richard G,

Trillions for a placebo?  Do you really admit to supporting this in public?  I'd rather drink the soup and rest than beign poked and pricked if the outcome is going to be the same.
     

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #107 on: February 27, 2009, 03:47:36 PM »
Lou,

I'm surprised that you speak of George W in such fond tones...

Didn't you see that "documentary" that Oliver Stone made about him called W.  The guy is a major league a-hole!!!  ::)  ::)  ::)  And he eats with his mouth open too much.  ;)

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #108 on: February 27, 2009, 04:46:59 PM »
Lou,
  CRA is a 32 year old piece of legislation and since its inception we have had Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, and several power swaps in Congress, with Republicans ruling the roost for 10 of the last 12 years.   
 
 No one is free from blame, so saying that "...populist Democratic policies" are to blame and we are in this mess because it's only Dems that created, or went along with, policies which said "....people who can't afford houses should still have them", is an argument that only rings true for someone in the extreme right corner of the Republican party, and your second paragraph sounds like it came right out of Rush Limpbough's playbook.

I'm with the idea:  "What matters is how we prevent wasting more" and I don't care who comes up with best ideas. Plenty of time later to see what went wrong, why it did, and who's to blame (sure would be fun to see who has profitted most from CD swaps).

 
 
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Brent Hutto

Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #109 on: February 27, 2009, 04:58:08 PM »
I think those of us who are most concerned about "...how we prevent wasting more" are effectively disenfranchised. There is no reason to believe a return to power of the recently deposed Republicans would involve fiscal restraint, it certainly did not at any point during the Bush II years. And the currently-in-power Democratic party starts from a baseline of Bush II spending and ups the ante from there.

For as far as I can see into the future it is trillions (Republican version) or tens of trillions (Democratic version) of unfunded spending plans combined with slightly incremental redistributionism (Democratic version) or frankly incomprehensible tax-cut-ism (Republican version) whittling around the margins. Not a whiff of any acknowledgment of the enormous dose of reality that will come crashing down on these morons a few years hence. They don't care one bit and there's nobody I can vote for who does.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #110 on: February 27, 2009, 05:12:26 PM »
Northern Trust seeks to repay bailout money



Feb. 27, 2009

(Crain's) — Northern Trust Corp. has written a letter to Rep. Barney Frank indicating the bank wants to start the process of repaying the $1.6 billion in bailout funds it received last fall under the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
The Chicago institution drew criticism this week from lawmakers in D.C. over the lavish spending it did as title sponsor of a PGA golf tournament at Riviera Country Club in suburban Los Angeles last weekend.


 
H.P.S.

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #111 on: February 27, 2009, 05:23:20 PM »
So let me see if I get this straight, all the good things that happened during the Clinton years were because of Clinton and all the bad things were because of the republican congress?   And the corollary is that all of the bad things during Reagan were because of Reagan and the good things were because of the democratic congress. 

What about George Bush Sr.?  I mean he raised taxes, so that must be worth something.  ;)

It is ironic that the group of people who created Moveon.org have never moved on.  :(

Where is Roy D. Mercer when you need him?  ;D

« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 05:43:05 PM by Craig Edgmand »

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #112 on: February 27, 2009, 05:47:21 PM »
Northern Trust seeks to repay bailout money



Feb. 27, 2009

(Crain's) — Northern Trust Corp. has written a letter to Rep. Barney Frank indicating the bank wants to start the process of repaying the $1.6 billion in bailout funds it received last fall under the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
The Chicago institution drew criticism this week from lawmakers in D.C. over the lavish spending it did as title sponsor of a PGA golf tournament at Riviera Country Club in suburban Los Angeles last weekend.


 


Who's going to send Barack a bill for the waste of money he had the other night so he could lavishly worship his favorite musician, Stevie Wonder, up close and personal at taxpayer expense?



You first.  :)
H.P.S.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #113 on: February 27, 2009, 06:08:16 PM »
The Gershwin Prize is given by the Library of Congress, ask them.

Do you break out the letter sweater from your sophmore year when you come up an idea like that, or are you just winging it?
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #114 on: February 27, 2009, 06:54:13 PM »
Shiv,

Amazing how none of the dems complained a peep about Obamas inaguration that exceeded $170 million, yet yelled bloody murder when Bush's cost under $50 Million just 4 years ago.  Hypocrisy at its finest....

Throw in there his new proposed budget that dwarfs anything Bush or the GOP ever even dreamed about and this quickly becoming the presidency of do what I say, not what I do.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 06:56:04 PM by Kalen Braley »

Ian Larson

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Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #115 on: February 27, 2009, 07:10:24 PM »
Shiv,

Amazing how none of the dems complained a peep about Obamas inaguration that exceeded $170 million, yet yelled bloody murder when Bush's cost under $50 Million just 4 years ago.  Hypocrisy at its finest....

Throw in there his new proposed budget that dwarfs anything Bush or the GOP ever even dreamed about and this quickly becoming the presidency of do what I say, not what I do.


Obama's inauguration price tag included all the transportation and security where Bush's did not. Look it up.

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #116 on: February 27, 2009, 07:15:55 PM »
$120 million for transportation and security?


WOW, I guess that makes it all better  ;).

Bart

Ian Larson

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Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2009, 07:33:34 PM »
This thread is utterly and completely useless. I keep checking in to see if it came back to anything golf and it never does. It just keeps going down the same road.

I read threads like this and picture all the participants like all the guys you see in the viagra and smug financial commercials during golf broadcasts. Maybe a little bit of The Villages too...



"$120 million for transportation and security?


WOW, I guess that makes it all better  Wink.

Bart"


The government is going to spend what it needs to no matter what, wrong or right, when millions upon millions upon millions are making the trip to Washington to watch the inauguration. If we follow what is inferred in that statement lets just imagine for a moment if security was only a quarter of what it was during one of the most important inaugurations in history with millions in one area. Alot of you are just bitter and want to disagree just to disagree and choose to think anything anti Obama.

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2009, 07:38:04 PM »
Ian...I really didn't mean to upset you...I just thought it was funny ...that's all.

Bart

Ian Larson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2009, 07:57:48 PM »


I know Bart and dont take that in a harsh or personal way..


Im just sick of everything right now. Government, steroids etc. This all sucks and its depressing. And now it really has the chance of affecting one of my favorite things, golf. Im not a super political guy that has millions in investments like most of you on here are and are arguing about.

But I just cant wrap my brain around the fact that alot of you guys cant understand the simple fact that maybe golf sponsors should dial it back a little this year. I dont know why that is such a hard thing to come to terms with. Not hiring Chicago or Sheryl Crow for a big party is not the end of the world and probably wont cost any new customers.

It just gets even more depressing when I read this thread with the guys arguing back and forth and pointing fingers. It just makes me think that these are the kind of people that are the CEO's and wealthy businessmen that you keep seeing on the national news making stupid mistakes and being made a public example because they have no sense. It makes me think that the spirit of this thread is what wrong with this country. So go ahead and feel free to fire away at me...

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #120 on: February 27, 2009, 08:23:56 PM »

Lou.."But I have a lot more confidence in the ability of productive Americans- those who actually work and pay federal income taxes.

How do you propose putting people to work?  Tell me...

Here's how I would do it...tax cuts for middle class...to spur some spending.

What you and many others don't seem to understand is the following.
You could give every taxpayor $ 10,000 and it wouldn't solve this problem, so tax cuts for low, middle or upper income individuals won't help.

What's needed is for companies to HIRE employees, not lay off thousands.
But, in order to do that you have to incentivize businesses, you have to promote business.  Funding the introduction and repair of infrastructure is a start, spending money on social programs isn't, it only makes matters worse.


Investment in infrastructure over the next 18 months....you might call that digging holes and filling them....but you and I know that is baloney....this investment needs to happen.

Investing in infrastructure is a positive move, but, so little is being devoted to that task.  More needs to be done to ramp up company payrolls, not dole out benefits.


Investment in alternatives to fossil fuels...the latest spike in oil prices should be enough to scare us all into action....

The challenge is that nobody wants a nuclear plant or windmill farm in their backyard or view.

Investing in R&D and companies developing alternative fuels would be a good thing, but, the "stimulus package" does very, very little toward funding investment.

Taxing people and businesses will only drive the economy down.

Spending on creating work for businesses that will hire employees is what is needed.

Unfortunately, those at the local, county, State and Federal level have driven our manufacturing businesses to foreign shores.

We don't make anything anymore.

We need to cultivate manufacturing, we need to expand business, not burden it further.

The politics of class warfare will backfire.

Capital will flee a hostile environments.
Captial is attracted to favorable environments.
We are confronted with a choice, what will it be ?

If we don't encourage business and the expansion of business we won't recover and if we spend our way into oblivion our children and grandchildren will lead vastly different, unpleasant lives.



P.S.  Sponsoring events was and continues to be a sound business practice
        Unfortunately, it's become politically incorrect.

        If a potential client loves to watch golf, why wouldn't you treat them
        to being a part of the event ?  Why wouldn't you invite them to your
        hospitality tent.

        If you're going to attack this practice, you might as well attack the
        entire concept of advertising and public relations.

        Only guys who don't work for or manage businesses don't get that.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 08:27:53 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Mike Sweeney

Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #121 on: February 27, 2009, 08:34:27 PM »
Shiv,

Amazing how none of the dems complained a peep about Obamas inaguration that exceeded $170 million, yet yelled bloody murder when Bush's cost under $50 Million just 4 years ago.  Hypocrisy at its finest....

Throw in there his new proposed budget that dwarfs anything Bush or the GOP ever even dreamed about and this quickly becoming the presidency of do what I say, not what I do.

Kalen,

Old news:
quote author=Mike Sweeney link=topic=38272.msg794031#msg794031 date=1232146362]
OKAY THE REAL NUMBERS THAT OBAMA IS SPENDING

Obama’s inaugural committee is in the midst of raising roughly $45 million in private funds, exceeding the $42.3 million President Bush spent in 2005. In 1993, Clinton spent $33 million when Democrats returned to the White House for the first time in 12 years.

NOW THE FEDS ARE SPENDING

As in previous years, the costs borne by the taxpayers, for security and emergency medical services, far surpasses the privately funded events. The federal government has budgeted $49 million for this year’s inauguration, more than triple what taxpayers spent at Bush’s first inauguration in 2001, according to the Office of Management and Budget.

AND THE STATES ARE SPENDING

Earlier this year, the District of Columbia, Virginia, Maryland and the Washington transit authority sent a request to federal lawmakers for more than $75 million to cover a variety of inaugural costs ranging from security to transportation.

AND THE REASON IT IS SO COSTLY FOR THE FEDS AND STATES IS THE VOLUME OF VISITORS

At least 2 million people are expected at the swearing-in and parade next Tuesday. Officials estimate 10,000 charters buses will arrive in Washington with roughly 500,000 riders alone.

------------------------------------------------

Just trying to add a little balance to the discussion. Okay my source is the Daily News, but I am guessing that they are closer than what was reported above!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/01/13/2009-01-13_obamas_inauguration_is_most_expensive_ev.html

[/quote]

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #122 on: February 27, 2009, 08:37:09 PM »
Pat,  Nice post! As a small business owner(dentistry), the biggest threat to our economy is unemployment. A society that is working has money to fuel our economy. An expansion of social programs is only deepening our recession.    Wish you well , Jack

Mike Sweeney

Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #123 on: February 27, 2009, 08:39:33 PM »


If we don't encourage business and the expansion of business we won't recover and if we spend our way into oblivion our children and grandchildren will lead vastly different, unpleasant lives.[/b]



As a small business guy, I am disappointed in some of Obama's tone to date. Wall Street is what it is. It goes up and down, but Obama needs to create incentive and celebrate the small business of America who quietly drive the economy on a day to day business. Housing with bank support is a big piece of this equation.

PS. Jack Crisham - we crossed post!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 08:41:08 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Trust under pressure...
« Reply #124 on: February 27, 2009, 09:27:34 PM »
Ian,

You of all people should know that all this has a profound impact on golf.  It is my understanding that your employer has had to dial down its renovation plans considerably because of the financial mess we are in.  If things continue in the current trajectory, even rich clubs will pinch the budgets and your employees will be among the first to feel the pain.

You say you are not a political person then go on to make all sorts of wild accusations against those who don't agree with your president.  A clear indication of your partisanship is the umbrage you've taken at even the most justified criticisms of the new administration.  For expample, the complaint regarding the inauguration had nothing to do with the amount of money spent but with the difference in reaction and the hypocrisy of the libs and the press (I know, they're but one subset) who screamed bloody murder when Bush spent a much smaller amount, apples to apples.

Amazing that you would call a profitable bank to "tone down" an important aspect of its marketing efforts.  It is true that operations people don't often understand marketing and sales until these important functions fail to generate the revenues that allow these folks to keep their jobs.  Do you think that when Crow and Chicago signed their contracts, probably long before the current crisis, that they might have a termination clause requiring compensation?  But how about all the little people setting the event up, waiting tables, pouring drinks, handling the sound and lights, etc.  Screw them because of symbolism?  And who is being compassionate here?

Jim Kennedy,

Yours is an intellectually dishonest argument and I think you know it.  Your attempt to denigrate me by associating what I said with Rush Limbaugh is desperate as it is devious.  Why don't you show me where I am wrong.  How many Americans do you think actually believe that we should be bailing out people who bought homes they couldn't afford?  That is part of the problem that Obama is having.  He misjudged his mandate and Americans do not want this spread the wealth around, particularly when it is their wealth that's being spread around.  And by the way, I am not embarrased at all to say that much of what Limbaugh "spews" is directionally accurate.  Given the choice of spending a day with Rush or Obama, it would take me one second to decide.  It is no accident that people you admire are trying to shut him up.

David Scmidt,

You are right.  Just as I don't give a rat's behind what the color of someone's skin is, I could care less if he calls himself a Democrat or a Republican.  It is a matter of aligning revenues and expenses.  Anyone who is more preoccupied with "fairness" and equal outcomes than opportunity and expanding the pie is immediately suspect in my book.  It has been my experience that all Democrats are tax and spend reditributionists.  Actually,  I can think of one exception, the congressman from GA, and he got bounced out of the party.  And while there are many RINOs out there, there are a number of fiscal conservatives in the Republican party.  So, I guess you are not as right as I thought.

Kalen,

I do like George Bush personally.  My expectations of him as president were rather modest and he underperformed.  Perhaps history will treat him well, but I agree that the country probably would have been better off if another Republican had won.  Yet, even after the fact, I do think he was a far superior choice than Gore and Kerry.

Patrick Mucci,

It is very debilitating to work the hours that many small business owners typically do, risk their money, and put their families through all the sacrifices to then be constantly villified and targeted as if there was something terribly wrong with them.  It is no accident that states and municipalities which are business friendly are in better shape financially.  Your friend Bloomberg understands this and stood up to the tax and spend politicians.  Arnold in CA doesn't though he says he does.  Both states have been losing businesses for years and if it would not be for immigration, both would be losing population as well.  The upside for the high-cost, tax and spend states is that Obama is going to try to equalize the situation by "spreading the wealth".  His current plan to eradicate the oil industry will devastate TX if he is successful, and both CA and NY will get a disproportionate share of the largesse.  We all want high paying clean jobs.  There aren't too many yuppies who want a manufacturing plant or a wind turbine in their backyard.  NIMBYs all around.  The horror!       
   
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 09:32:17 PM by Lou_Duran »

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