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David_Elvins

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Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« on: February 23, 2009, 07:27:50 PM »
I saw this recent photo of Barnbougle Dunes.  Must admit I have no other information on this feature (it may have always bee there and I just missed it, or it may just have grown a bit).  Before noticing this feature my opinion was that Barnbougle was closer to perfect than any other golf course that I had seen.  This doesn't help its cause IMO.

Is this thread an over-reaction?  What are others thoughts? 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 07:29:51 PM by David_Elvins »
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 07:35:38 PM »
I don't like it, and don't remember it from building the course.  Judging from the photo, it's in a fairway bunker on the 15th hole.

The only reason to have something like that is to minimize sand from blowing out of the bunkers.
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Philippe Binette

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Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 07:40:01 PM »
Sorry for that one...

Me and George Waters actually planted that thing originally (I don't know if they had to replant it during grassing)...

It is actually that thing that we were planting on the picture on page 117 of Golf Architecture a worldwide perspective volume 3...

Funny isn't it. I think it comes down to my definition of a bunker as a hazard. Maybe 1 ball out of a thousand balls going in the bunker will be in trouble because of this... but this little feature will require player to respect the bunker a little more.

As for the aesthetic, maybe it would look better if there was a little more wild grasses on the edges of that bunker... but maybe it would strike as much and thus making me and george less famous... and that, that is really important ;D
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Philippe Binette

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Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 07:42:33 PM »
Sorry Tom for that one...

hell, I even just mentionned the piece of conviction... I'm in trouble. I'll have to retire, call it the worst mistake in the history of golf architecture to save Barnbougle Dunes going down as a 0     ;D ;D
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Philippe Binette

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Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2009, 07:46:56 PM »
Yeah, it's in the middle of the bunker in the middle of the fairway at 15th... so much for a straight drive...

keep this picture as archives, round up might be coming over it soon then
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Jim_Kennedy

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2009, 07:48:01 PM »
David,
I'd say whack it with that rake, make sure it's dead, and drag it out of there.

On the other hand, the somewhat similar features in the hillside bunker(upper left) don't look bad.  
Is that because the hill is convex vs. the concave bunker, or just that it's the type of growth you see on grassy dunes?
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Philippe Binette

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Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2009, 07:54:08 PM »
Here's how to start a debate...

There is stuff like that at Merion... have fun now
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Joe Hancock

  • Total Karma: 5
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2009, 07:58:51 PM »
Quote from: Philippe Binette on February 23, 2009, 07:54:08 PM
Here's how to start a debate...

There is stuff like that at Merion... have fun now

That was my first reaction/ observation.....for the record, I don't particularly like the look, let alone function, at Merion, either.

Joe
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Charlie Goerges

  • Total Karma: 8
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2009, 08:03:31 PM »
Quote from: Jim_Kennedy on February 23, 2009, 07:48:01 PM
David,
I'd say whack it with that rake, make sure it's dead, and drag it out of there.

On the other hand, the somewhat similar features in the hillside bunker(upper left) don't look bad.  
Is that because the hill is convex vs. the concave bunker, or just that it's the type of growth you see on grassy dunes?

This made me laugh out loud!
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Damon Groves

Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2009, 08:25:21 PM »
I don't have an issue with this as long as it fits in with the natural setting and is something you might find out there. Assuming it is, or close to it, it is simply part of the course you have to deal with. You could always take an unplayable lie if you had to.
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Ronald Montesano

  • Total Karma: -35
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2009, 08:46:27 PM »
Does anyone else speak Philippe?  I honestly had no idea what he was saying in his first three posts along this thread.  Is it Mauri Kudzu or something?  Tasmanian whacky weed?  Can you smoke it?  I think it is too much, especially given the craggy nature of the bunker, which seems penalty enough.  I don't like it in the hillside bunker, not neither.
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Kalen Braley

  • Total Karma: -4
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2009, 08:52:09 PM »
I'm curious...these appear to be all over the place.

I circled one on the top left corner as well.  Is the one in the original picture being singled out or are all of these being summarily reprimanded.

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Buck Wolter

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Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2009, 09:02:48 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on February 23, 2009, 08:52:09 PM
I'm curious...these appear to be all over the place.

That's the Trouble with Tribbles

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Kalen Braley

  • Total Karma: -4
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2009, 09:05:35 PM »
Quote from: Buck Wolter on February 23, 2009, 09:02:48 PM
Quote from: Kalen Braley on February 23, 2009, 08:52:09 PM
I'm curious...these appear to be all over the place.

That's the Trouble with Tribbles



Ha ha ha..great call.  I remember that episode!!  ;D
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Ronald Montesano

  • Total Karma: -35
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2009, 09:05:47 PM »
Is that Shatner, Chris Kattan or their love child?
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Coming in 2025
~Robert Moses Pitch 'n Putt
~~Sag Harbor
~~~Chenango Valley
~~~~Sleepy Hollow
~~~~~Montauk Downs
~~~~~~Sunken Meadow
~~~~~~~Some other, posh joints ;)

Bart Bradley

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2009, 09:07:29 PM »
In my opinion, they are bad..whether there is 1 or 10 or 100...design the bunker to be penalty-enough...the clumps of pampas look terrible ....if I need to take a drop, might as well make it a lake.

Bart


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Ronald Montesano

  • Total Karma: -35
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2009, 09:20:02 PM »
Good point about the pampas.  All we need is El Pato or El Gato on a steed with a bolero and we'll be all set.
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Coming in 2025
~Robert Moses Pitch 'n Putt
~~Sag Harbor
~~~Chenango Valley
~~~~Sleepy Hollow
~~~~~Montauk Downs
~~~~~~Sunken Meadow
~~~~~~~Some other, posh joints ;)

Jason Topp

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2009, 11:02:02 PM »
Quote from: Philippe Binette on February 23, 2009, 07:40:01 PM
Sorry for that one...

It is actually that thing that we were planting on the picture on page 117 of Golf Architecture a worldwide perspective volume 3...


Not much better evidence than that picture.

 I am not a fan of things in a bunker (or anywhere) that make it impossible to hit some sort of shot.  My view is not so much based on fairness as it is on lack of fun.  I've played in some stroke play events where guys have had to make the walk of shame because of things like that either in or on the edge of bunkers.

Of course many of the best courses in the world have such features - Pine Valley, Royal Melboune and apparently Merion.   
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Mike_Cirba

Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2009, 11:08:22 PM »
I like it...a lot.

Of course, I also believe snakes, gila monsters, fiery flames of hades, toxic waste, nuclear radiation, and wolverines are all fair game to include inside a bunker HAZARD, so maybe it's just me.

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Joe Hancock

  • Total Karma: 5
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2009, 11:26:34 PM »
...and if you look into the bunker from the opposite direction, you see this.....




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"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

David Neveux

Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2009, 11:52:40 PM »
Well done Joe, absolutely hilarious.
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Sean_A

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2009, 01:57:38 AM »
I don't much like it.  I too would rather the bunker itself be the penalty.  I also don't much like the look of it, though that probably means that if more of that crap were in the bunkers then it would look alright.  All that said, it is what it is, a pretty minor detail.  The far more important questions concern the bunker itself.  Is it well placed? Does it value to the hole?  Was there an alternative natural hazard that could have been used to accomplish the designer's goal?  Is the bunker a real penalty?

Ciao
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Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2009, 09:04:27 AM »
Quote from: MikeCirba on February 23, 2009, 11:08:22 PM
I like it...a lot.
Of course, I also believe snakes, gila monsters, fiery flames of hades, toxic waste, nuclear radiation, and wolverines are all fair game to include inside a bunker HAZARD......

...........so maybe it's just me.

So far, so good  ;)
 
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Philippe Binette

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Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2009, 09:57:16 AM »
Ronald, my language is Franglish... sorry, my writing was off a bit...

The thing is, I wrote my first comment before seeing Tom Doak comment, then I read Tom comments 2 seconds later and post the second comment.

Baically, what I'm saying is, I am, with Goerge Watters, responsible for putting that clump of grass there. Which is what I'm sorry (jokingly) about even more now that I know Tom don't like it.

The picture in Golf Architecture is me and George planting that clump of grass.

One thing, there was also a mini devil's A**hole in the next bunker that dissapeared during construction... that was severe... very severe.
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JMorgan

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Re: Barnbougle Dunes - Do you like this feature?
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2009, 10:57:33 AM »
I bet I could easily make it a movable obstruction.  ;D 
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