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Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2009, 12:29:20 PM »
I understand where you're coming from, Richard. As someone said above, this would be a kind of "silly season" event, for fun. I think that folks would love it. Go whole hog on it. Have the guys wear lime-green sansabelt slacks and shiny white shoes. Sideburns, perhaps.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2009, 12:37:46 PM »
Richard Choi,
You're not taking into account that fans also love comparing across generations, so even though Hogan cannot be resurrected*, or Arnie and Jack cannot be returned to their prime, it is possible to stage an event that approximates how today's player would fare using equipment from that generation.

This is about fun, not roll backs.



* this belief is held my most people, not all.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2009, 12:40:32 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2009, 12:41:06 PM »
Shivas...

Whatever...if you want to argue..fine.

I am saying baseball has set up a situation that has led to bad behavior by the participants...much like the recent banking crisis.

Reduce the number of games, reduce the number of night games followed by day games...and doubleheaders and I bet you have fewer problems with drug use.

Reduce the number of games played?

How about one strike and you're out. Lifetime ban with salary clawbacks.

Nobody forced one player to stick a needle in their ass. A little personal (not to mention social) responsibility would go a long way. Baseball is dead to many unless they establish a nuclear-level testing program.

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2009, 01:49:09 PM »
I love the silly season idea...replace the less than entertaining skins game with a throw back. Persimmon drivers, balatas, and lets go with vinyl bags for kicks..

Tiger, Phil, Paddy....and SEVE!!!  Seve gets the white tees..

I'm calling Finchem..

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2009, 01:54:32 PM »
Speaking of everyone doing drugs..what's going on here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye3ecDYxOkg

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2009, 02:21:14 PM »
Here is an example of a local (SF area) tournament requiring "traditional" clubs:

http://www.traditionalrulesofgolf.org/sfopen.html

They also use a separate set of rules, as described on the site.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

John Keenan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2009, 03:01:08 PM »
Kevin

Do you know who the TRGA is? I Googled it  and got Three Rivers Golf Assoc which I doubt is correct.

My guess is Traditional Golf Association and went with TR rather than T
The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2009, 03:13:49 PM »
And while we're at it...let's set up the course to maintenance standards of the day...and then leave them there.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2009, 03:30:06 PM »
Another thought....would never happen but what if Jack, Lee, etc - some of the older at this point seniors - competed but with modern equipment vs the young lions and '60s equipment?  Seems like the perfect 'silly season' event and certainly more entertaining than the current rendition of the skins game.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2009, 04:11:53 PM »
Cliff,

Evidently you weren't bowling in the 1970's when the "soaker" was discovered.

You mentioned: USA today reports that this weeks bowling tournament will use plastic bowling balls that were used back in the 1980's.  The tournament will be called The Geico Plastic Ball Championship.  The article goes on to indicate that it is to increase ratings but also to "bridge the disconnect that viewers might have in seeing how much better the pros are than civilians in bowling leagues....Using plastic balls will allow pros to show how good they are even when they're not helped by the latest technology."

Before the early 1970's all bowling balls were hard rubber. With the invention of the plastic ball scores did not immediately get lower. It wasn't until a pro, whose name escapes me now, began "soaking" his ball in paint remover and turpentine and began dominating the pro tour.

What this soaking did was it softened the outer portion of the ball so that it would grip the alley quicker regardless of the amount of oils used on it (All alleys are oiled). This enabled his ball to react better, hold the line upon which it was thrown tighter and deviate less when it hit the pocket.

The manufacturers who learned what he was doing quickly began manufacturing bowling balls with a softness range that a bowler could choose from. Balls began hooking more and scores began rising. this was actually the cause of players to begin using two or three balls in a match as the necessity to control a hook was now dependent on the balls softness rather than the skill acquired to manipulate the amount of hook one would use.

Within a few years the governing body of bowling restricted the hardness quotient of the ball and tightened the allowable offsets allowed in drilling it (Side, finger and top weight).

So going back to plastic balls from that time period isn't like going back to a time of markedly different inferior equipment, but rather a time where the rules governing them were markedly different. The bowling balls used today react quite similarly to how they did at that time under the tougher manufacturing guidelines used today.

It would be as if steel shafts, persimmon heads and golf balls of the 1970's could be made to play by today's players the same because the rules of manufacturing and personal adaptation of them were remarkably different.

 

Tom Huckaby

Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2009, 04:26:24 PM »
Sadly the reality does not live up to the fantasy.....

http://www.bowl.com/aboutUSBC/executive_bios.aspx#dornberger


Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2009, 04:29:10 PM »




 and a Hamm's sign hanging in the background behind them... 


Sounds good to me ;D

Tom Huckaby

Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2009, 04:31:24 PM »
Dave, this guy kinda fits the image too, I think:



And Cliff, you are my hero. 

Tom Huckaby

Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2009, 04:33:04 PM »
Hide the guns from Dave....

http://community.bowl.com/forums/


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2009, 04:36:10 PM »
Sadly the reality does not live up to the fantasy.....

http://www.bowl.com/aboutUSBC/executive_bios.aspx#dornberger



Damn Huck,

Why'd you have to post that...those guys look pretty normal.  I much prefer to keep the image of Bill Murray and Woody Harrelson from KingPen in my mind.   ;D


RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2009, 04:52:53 PM »
It would be really fun to see the pro's play with something from say.. the 1960's. You do have to realize it can't happen because the equipment manufacturers will through a hissy fit.
I helped GD do an article back in the 90's and "unfortunately" the hickory club did too well and Callaway got pissed. The editor was talking about doing a match between a couple of pro's, but that went out the window.
IF you could pull it off, you will need to pick a specific year because all the guys will go for clubs the latest date. If you said 60-70's, they will all go for 79 1/2 if it exists. None of them would use 60's clubs. Amongst the pro-classic collectors there are more of them sets floating around then you can count. 80 sets or so would easily be doable. Another problem is that the guys would have little modifications done that could easily be hidden.

It could be done, it would be fun to see, but there are too many roadblocks I don't believe can be overcome.

And forget anything wood shaft eras, that list of problems would fill a couple of pages long post.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2009, 05:58:37 PM »
So last fall went to visit daughter in Madison, Wisconsin.  Played Lawsonia and got some great pix. Thought they would be the best of the trip until we went to an Octoberfest in New Glarus, home of some great local brew.  Went by this house with a garden and thought there were Easter eggs and then looked again.  Lo and Behold - Brats, beer and bowling.  Priceless.






jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2009, 06:12:54 PM »
It would be really fun to see the pro's play with something from say.. the 1960's. You do have to realize it can't happen because the equipment manufacturers will through a hissy fit.
I helped GD do an article back in the 90's and "unfortunately" the hickory club did too well and Callaway got pissed. The editor was talking about doing a match between a couple of pro's, but that went out the window.
IF you could pull it off, you will need to pick a specific year because all the guys will go for clubs the latest date. If you said 60-70's, they will all go for 79 1/2 if it exists. None of them would use 60's clubs. Amongst the pro-classic collectors there are more of them sets floating around then you can count. 80 sets or so would easily be doable. Another problem is that the guys would have little modifications done that could easily be hidden.

It could be done, it would be fun to see, but there are too many roadblocks I don't believe can be overcome.

And forget anything wood shaft eras, that list of problems would fill a couple of pages long post.

Ralph,
many of the touring pros were using woods from the 50's in the 60's,70's, and 80s.
and plenty were using vintage 60's and 70's irons. (
In fact I doubt many were using clubs from 1979--most were laminated and sucked-and no good players were using PINGs yet (except putters)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2009, 09:40:05 PM »
It would be really fun to see the pro's play with something from say.. the 1960's. You do have to realize it can't happen because the equipment manufacturers will through a hissy fit.
I helped GD do an article back in the 90's and "unfortunately" the hickory club did too well and Callaway got pissed. The editor was talking about doing a match between a couple of pro's, but that went out the window.
IF you could pull it off, you will need to pick a specific year because all the guys will go for clubs the latest date. If you said 60-70's, they will all go for 79 1/2 if it exists. None of them would use 60's clubs. Amongst the pro-classic collectors there are more of them sets floating around then you can count. 80 sets or so would easily be doable. Another problem is that the guys would have little modifications done that could easily be hidden.

It could be done, it would be fun to see, but there are too many roadblocks I don't believe can be overcome.

And forget anything wood shaft eras, that list of problems would fill a couple of pages long post.

Ralph,
many of the touring pros were using woods from the 50's in the 60's,70's, and 80s.
and plenty were using vintage 60's and 70's irons. (
In fact I doubt many were using clubs from 1979--most were laminated and sucked-and no good players were using PINGs yet (except putters)

Heck, i was at the 1970 U.S. Open at Hazeltine, and already had a BombSquadGolf-like obsession with equipment back then, so I used binoculars to look in every bag I could find.

There were more than a few original 1930s Wilson sand wedges, and tons of Wilson and Hagens from the 1950s.

And I estimated at the time that 85% of the drivers were Macgregors, most of them 10 to 15 years old.

At the time, you could get a pro to pay $300 to $500 for a tight-grained Mac driver, and the real R-90 and R-20 wedges were bringing $300+

Now they're worth squat.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2009, 10:03:08 PM »
Hide the guns from Dave....

http://community.bowl.com/forums/



Fortunately for Dave, the "Equipment and Lanes" section only has one thread in it and it isn't actually on "Lanes" so I still think it is safe to declare it isn't a GCA equivalent.

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2009, 10:08:36 PM »
Uh-oh... Nice knowing you, Dave.

http://forums.mrbowling300.net/mb/mrbowling300

The thread list under "Equipment and Lanes"

http://forums.mrbowling300.net/mb/mrbowling300?forum=89744

This thread is about as close to GCA as we can get...

http://forums.mrbowling300.net/tool/post/mrbowling300/vpost?id=3079974


Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2009, 10:18:09 PM »
« Last Edit: February 20, 2009, 10:19:53 PM by Charlie Goerges »
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2009, 02:35:15 AM »
Tiger already practices with Persimmon so he would have an advantage . . .

http://www.louisvillegolf.com/index.php/cPath/1_117

This comment is also interesting - "Earlier this year this player was quoted as saying if he ruled golf, it would be all persimmon and balata."

It would be really cool to see some of the best players of today (maybe 32) playing a two or three day tournament at Cypress Point with old equipment. Then compare those numbers to what Hogan, Snead and others have carded there.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2009, 08:29:38 AM »
I was in a bowling league back in the late 80's on a team with two of my friends from Nike.  One of us was a really good bowler who was one of the first to switch from the old technology to the new.  His average went from 190 to 210 in a year.

Being a traditionalist (an cheap), I stuck with my ancient rubber ball and was pretty much toast in  the league.  By the following year, most guys had switched.

I think golf is much more traitional, though  Yes, the ball is juiced.  But I saw guys with devices that kept their entire arm and wrist in the perfect position.  Looked like a Star Trek "Borg" type of thing - it was a joke that made a mockery of the game.  Give me golf any day!

PS - The late HOF'er Earl Anthony was a founding member of Pumpkin Ridge.  He was a very good golfer too.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe bowling gets it
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2009, 10:08:57 AM »
Sadly the reality does not live up to the fantasy.....

http://www.bowl.com/aboutUSBC/executive_bios.aspx#dornberger



Damn Huck,

Why'd you have to post that...those guys look pretty normal.  I much prefer to keep the image of Bill Murray and Woody Harrelson from KingPen in my mind.   ;D



<-----  I like that picture too!  ;)

Go Ernie McKracken
H.P.S.