Riviera No. 10

[Dan Kelly]

Just a thought:

In case anyone would like to see how many results are possible at Riviera No. 10, and how many ways there are to play it, now's the time to do so.

Go to pgatour.com. Click on Leaderboard. Click the P button to the right of the player's name to get his Play By Play.

Players with an asterisk by their tee times are starting on 10.

The first three players of the day are on 10 green right now.

Ben Crane play by play (so far):
Shot 1 242 yds to right fairway, 63 yds to hole
Shot 2 71 yds to right intermediate, 25 ft to hole

Tim Clark:
Shot 1 237 yds to left fairway, 74 yds to hole
Shot 2 81 yds to rear green side bunker, 25 ft to hole

Matt Bettencourt:
Shot 1 303 yds to left rough, 82 ft to hole
Shot 2 40 yds to right rear green side bunker, 37 ft to hole
Shot 3 4 ft to right rear green side bunker, 33 ft to hole
Shot 4 26 ft to green, 8 ft to hole

[Bill_McBride]

I will be there Saturday and plan to spend some of the day watching #10. 

This will be my first visit to Riviera. What are some other good vantage points to see the most interesting holes?

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Bill, a great course, but not a great spectator course.

I think working up 11 and down 12 and 13, gets you pretty close to tee shots, fairway shots and putting.
Watching guys hit their 2nd shot on 9 is alway pretty interesting as you are fairly close.
10 is not a good spectator hole.
Standing behind #3 tee is fun as they let it rip.
Watching tee shots on #18 is good with the lesser known players as then you can get close.
And of course you must watch someone tee of #1.  One of golf's unique settings.
In general, it is best to watch a good player who is back of the field.  L.A. (Hollywood) loves its front runners and the crowds will always watch the leaders.  Michelson and Couples are the only two exceptions.

[Bill_McBride]

Lynn, we have clubhouse passes so I'm hoping there's a good vantage point there to see #10 tee to green.  Thanks for the other suggestions.

[PjW]

Bill

I liked to wander between 5, 6 and 16 green; the tee shot on 6 is almost always interesting depending upon the pin placement.

Phil Wycoff

[Matt_Cohn]

Matt Bettencourt's days as a contender are done. 

[Bill_McBride]

Matt Bettencourt's days as a contender are done. 

What happened to Matt?  My nephew Michael caddied for him at Q School last year and he finished out of the money, off to the Nationwide.  If I got the story correctly from Michael......

[Steve Burrows]

Standing to the left side of # 3 tee box is pretty good, as you can watch tee balls there, and most of what happens on the fairway and green on # 9, plus shots off of # 10 tee (you may or may not see them land). 

Beware, though, that is one of the most congested areas on the course, at least during tournament play.

[Dan Kelly]

Weir on 10:

Play by Play for the Par 4, 315 yards 10th Hole   
X
Shot 1 304 yds to left rough, 76 ft to hole
Shot 2 51 ft to rear green side bunker, 27 ft to hole
Shot 3 5 ft to rear green side bunker, 24 ft to hole
Shot 4 2 ft to rear green side bunker, 23 ft to hole
Shot 5 23 ft to green, 3 in. to hole
Shot 6 in the hole

[Tom Huckaby]

OK, someone needs to clue us in:  what is so difficult about the right rear bunker such that pros are leaving one or two shots in it?

And darn it Weir... I have him for fantasy golf... I blame all Canadians.

 

[Jim Nugent]

I'd like to know what the average score is on #10 during the tournament.  The distribution would be interesting too. 

[Paul Stephenson]

OK, someone needs to clue us in:  what is so difficult about the right rear bunker such that pros are leaving one or two shots in it?

And darn it Weir... I have him for fantasy golf... I blame all Canadians.

 

Wouldn't the "Canadian" thing to do be to prudently lay-up.  I'd say he's been living in Utah too long..only that sounds strange too. 

[Guy Nicholson]

Wouldn't the "Canadian" thing to do be to prudently lay-up.  I'd say he's been living in Utah too long..only that sounds strange too. 

He used to play a 4w out where Clark did, not sure why that would change this year. Although Weir wouldn't be the first Canadian maligned for dumping wood and aiming left.

[Kalen Braley]

OK, someone needs to clue us in:  what is so difficult about the right rear bunker such that pros are leaving one or two shots in it?

And darn it Weir... I have him for fantasy golf... I blame all Canadians.

 

Wouldn't the "Canadian" thing to do be to prudently lay-up.  I'd say he's been living in Utah too long..only that sounds strange too. 

Hey,

I resemble that remark....

Utah golf is a great value, but with cold winters and hot summers the weather is far from ideal 8 months out of the year.  But with half the population not golfing on Sundays, I never have to worry about getting out on the weekend. 

[Chuck Brown]

Did they have an elapsed time on Ben Crane, or just the score?



 

[Dan Kelly]

I'd like to know what the average score is on #10 during the tournament.  The distribution would be interesting too. 

At the moment:
Hole Difficulty Rank: 11
Longest Drive: 329
Average Drive: 270.0
Going for green: 67.78%

I've seen birdies and double bogeys -- but it's possible I've missed something worse.

[BCrosby]

Once again this year, no. 10 is a casebook example of the TEP Conjecture at work.

The average score on the hole is probably not terribly different from other par 4's at Riviera.

What is truly remarkable are the hole's scoring spreads. Scoring on the 10th shows a remarkable range of both high and low scores. A large number of birdies and doubles. Highly unusual, especially for a hole with no water, no forced carries, o.b., etc.

For you newbies, the TEP Conjecture states that the scoring spreads on a hole are a reliable sign that the hole is a well designed strategic hole. Put differently, you should be able to predict great strategic holes by their high TEP Conjecture values.

OTOH, penal holes tend to have narrow scoring spreads and very low TEP Conjecture numbers.

Bob

The "TEP" copyright is used with the kind permission of its holder.

[Rob Rigg]

There's no laying up for the "Crazy Canucks" - jeez. There is a reason that Canada has medical coverage for all - because we're so dang crazy yo!

It would be so much fun seeing the pros dinking it a few times in a bunker - Oh the justice of it all!

Should be fun watching on the toob this w/e.

[Bill_Yates]

I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but am I seeing things? 

On one of the overhead shots of Riviera, I thought I saw an alternate green, to the player's right and behind the present 10th green.

I, as have many others, considered this to be an almost perfect strategic design for a short Par 4 hole.  If it's perfect, why build an alternate green?

[Tom Huckaby]

I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but am I seeing things? 

On one of the overhead shots of Riviera, I thought I saw an alternate green, to the player's right and behind the present 10th green.

I, as have many others, considered this to be an almost perfect strategic design for a short Par 4 hole.  If it's perfect, why build an alternate green?

Bill - others more familiar with Riv can confirm, but I am pretty certain they do use that alternate green quite often... as you can see the green used today is TINY... I think it's just for wear and tear issues.

So maybe the hole is not perfect?

 

[Kalen Braley]

Damn huck beat me to it...indeed this is the case.  A tiny green even on a private course can beat to crap too!!

[Bill_Yates]

Tom,
Don't tell me that.  Next thing you'll tell me that Santa clause doesn't exist.

The green they are playing is in my estimation "perfectly designed."  It is small, as it receives only wedge shots, it is an impossibly narrow target that tilts away from the player and is tucked behind a large deep bunker when the second shot (or drive) is played from anywhere but the proper spot.  And, from the proper spot, the small long green is open to the player, however, from here this narrow target tilts from the player's right to left, making a right-side hole location very dicey.  Perfect!

Of course you know, I do have to agree with both of you.  By adding an alternate green they were not looking for a better design, with Riviera's large membership they just had to find a way to let all the ball marks heal evey once-in-a-while.

[Dan Kelly]

The green they are playing is in my estimation "perfectly designed."  It is small, as it receives only wedge shots, it is an impossibly narrow target that tilts away from the player and is tucked behind a large deep bunker when the second shot (or drive) is played from anywhere but the proper spot.  And, from the proper spot, the small long green is open to the player, however, from here this narrow target tilts from the player's right to left, making a right-side hole location very dicey.  Perfect!

That doesn't sound a bit like a "strategic" hole.

Sounds like a pure "execution" hole to me -- at least for players who can't drive it to the green.

Am I wrong, boys? (I've never played the hole, or seen it in 3-D.)

[C. Squier]

The green they are playing is in my estimation "perfectly designed."  It is small, as it receives only wedge shots, it is an impossibly narrow target that tilts away from the player and is tucked behind a large deep bunker when the second shot (or drive) is played from anywhere but the proper spot.  And, from the proper spot, the small long green is open to the player, however, from here this narrow target tilts from the player's right to left, making a right-side hole location very dicey.  Perfect!

That doesn't sound a bit like a "strategic" hole.

Sounds like a pure "execution" hole to me -- at least for players who can't drive it to the green.

Am I wrong, boys? (I've never played the hole, or seen it in 3-D.)

I think we sometimes get "strategic" confused with the ability to hit the ball anywhere and get away with it.  There are 4-5 ways to play the hole in my estimation.  My one pull off the tee, I took the short/left approach and made bogey.  Terribly fun, you wanted to run back to the tee to play it again almost more than you wanted to head to the 11th hole. 

I would bet that over time, the hole is an upside down bell curve.  A lot of easy birdies and bogeys with few mundane pars. 

[Bill_Yates]

Dan,
Define strategic.  I thought all shots had to be executed.

My point is that no matter where you hit your tee shot (even in the optimal driving spot), the hole is designed so exquisitely that you really have to concentrate and "execute" the shot to make birdie or par.