[Andy Levett]

Apparently the prevalent thinking back then was if you were good enough to play very good golf you should be able to basically know how or figure out how to design a decent golf course.

That, plus their greenkeeping expertise, would have got Robertson the Carnoustie job in the 40s and Old Tom, Prestwick in 1851.
But Old Tom went on to lay out +/- 50 courses, the vast majority well after he had been eclipsed as a player. (Robert Kroeger lists 8 "designed or remodelled" before 1879, when Old Tom was aged 58, and 41 between then and 1904).
So, in answer to the question 'What really was the beginning of golf course architecture?' three possible answers are:
a) The first time someone decided, we'll play to there.
b) The first time someone was paid for their expertise - as has been said,  Allan Robertson by Carnoustie for alterations in the mid 40s
c) The first man who was regularly paid for his expertise and reputation as a golf course designer - Old Tom Morris

 

[TEPaul]

Andy:

I realize some probably think to be an architect one must get paid but that's not necessarily the case. Leeds, Fownes, Wilson, Crump, Thomas and Macdonald were never paid for architecture.

[Bradley Anderson]

I've been following this thread closely, and I thought these questions might help to clarify the discussion.

Can clearing the land of gorse and heather, for golf, be classified as "golf course architecture"?

I would vote no, because the term architecture means "master-building", and clearing is not building.

Can routing a golf course to designate where the holes will be located be classified as "golf course architecture"?

Again I would vote no, because routing is not building.

Now certainly clearing, and routing are a part of golf course architecture, but if there is no significant "building"of golf features, can we say that golf architecture is taking place?

Is leveling off 18 squares of land for sodding some pathcy bits of putting surface type turf, and digging abuttment style trenches perpendicular to the flow of the hole, for bunker hazards, golf course architecture?

I would vote no again because the "building" that is undertaken here is not "masterful" in any sense, but rather utilitarian.

Master Building of golf courses involves clearing the land where needed, routing the golf holes, and building golf features. But in the building we need to see masterful work being done to say that golf course architecture is at work.

[TEPaul]

Bradley:

I tend to agree with what you said there but I'm aware others often think of architecture as entailing a lot less than that.

While I am somewhat interested what some of the contributors on here think golf course architecture is I'm much more interested in determining what exactly C.B. Macdonald thought it is.

I've gone through his book again with that in mind and it seems he didn't exactly call himself the first architect per se (unless I missed it) but it seems he did call NGLA and what he did that led up to it and during the design and construction of it the first example of golfing architecture he was aware of.



"I was intensely interested, and it was from this discussion (the 1900 "Best Hole Discussion" in London's Golf Illustrated) I was urged to carry out the idea of building a classical golf course in America, one which would eventually compare favorably with the championship links abroad and serve as an incentive to the elevation of the game in America. I believe this was the first effort at establishing golfing architecture----at least there is no record I can find preceding it."




Undeniably he was aware that plenty of others had laid out and constructed golf courses before that, including him (Chicago GC) so what could he have been talking about and thinking about that made NGLA different to him than anything that came before it and why would that difference lead him to call it the first example of golf architecture?

I think that becomes very clear when one considers what Macdonald also said at the end of his book in one of the last chapters entitled "Architecture."

           " I read a golf article not long since in which the writer called a "fetish" the copying of holes from the classical courses of Great Britain, holes which have the testimony of all the great golfers for more than a century or two past as being expressive of the best and noblest phases of the game.
            Architecture is one of the five fine arts. If the critic's contention is true, then architecture must be a "fetish," as the basis of it is the copying of Greek and Roman architecture, Romanesque and Gothic, and in our own times among other forms, Georgian and Colonial architecture. One must have the gift of imagination to successfully apply the original to the new situations. Surely there is nothing "fetish" about this.
            I believe in reverencing anything in the life of man which has the testimony of the ages as being unexcelled, whether it be literarture, paintings, poetry, tombs----even a golf hole.
            Perhaps it may be apropos to close this chapter by quoting another great landscape architect, Prince Puckler:
            "Time is not able to bring forth new truths but only an unfolding or timeless truths."



So there you have it. I think that unquestionably explains why Macdonald felt he was the first golf architect and NGLA was the first example of golf architecture.

Again, the key to why he felt the way he did, I think, is pretty much in this remark of his---'One must have the gift of imagination to successfully apply the original to new situations.' In that particular vein NGLA and Macdonald probably were the first to do that.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Bradley,
You're forgetting about context and usage by using the etymology of the word as a method of establishing who was the 'first' GCA,  the world was still a thousand plus years away from inventing golf, or GCAs, when "Archi" and "Tekton" were being used to define a "Master Builder".

Look at the definitions of how we use the word "Architect" (came into use in 1563):
1.  a person who designs buildings and advises in their construction
        Not really pertinent to what a GCA does, is it?  
2.  a person who designs and guides a plan or undertaking
        Very pertinent

.....and how we use the word "Architecture" (came into use in 1555):
1. the art or science of building ; specifically : the art or practice of designing and building structures, and especially habitable ones
      Again, not pertinent to GCA
2 a: formation or construction resulting from or as if from a conscious act  <the architecture of the garden>
     Very pertinent to GCA

The word Architect is really a generic term for a person who designs and guides a plan or undertaking, so any person who clears the land of gorse and heather for golf, or  routs a golf course to designate where the holes will be located or levels off 18 squares of land for sodding some patchy bits of putting surface fits that description.

[Joe Hancock]

Brad,

I am apt to over-simplify, but as I understand it, according to your post, the early guys of golf design who didn't move a lot of earth to "build" a course were, in reality, sort of a specialized "party planner".  Were these guys on to something wayyyy ahead of their time?

If only they had understood the whole "franchising" concept back then.

 

[Bradley Anderson]

Tom,

If were to agree with MacDonald's assertion it would be on this basis:

While there were other men who were masterfully building golf holes before NGLA was built, NGLA was the first masterfully built golf course. From the first tee, to the 18th hole, NGLA was indeed masterfully built.

Something like that.

[Jim_Kennedy]

So there you have it. I think that unquestionably explains why Macdonald felt he was the first golf architect and NGLA was the first example of golf architecture.- TEPaul

Actually Tom, it's more like there YOU have it, because you have not 'unquestionably' shown that CBM felt he was the first Architect, only that he thought he was the first person who was practicing architecture at that time who was able to create an example of Ideal Architecture in America. There is a distinction between the two and I don't know why you are trying to blur the line between them.

[TEPaul]

Bradley:

In my opinion, there were a few other courses in America that I think, and apparently others back then did too, that were masterfully built and preceded NGLA. I'd say they would include Myopia, GCGC and Oakmont. But the difference between them and NGLA is none of them were a collection of holes that were applications of famous holes abroad or features and parts of holes from abroad. The others contained holes that were pretty much all original with no real prototype from abroad or anywhere else.

I think that's the point Macdonald was making with the difference of NGLA.

If that is the case, and it sure looks like that was the way he was defining it, I would say that NGLA was not the first example of golfing architecture, as he said; it was just the first example of architecture modeled in a particular way.

[Kyle Harris]

Tom/Bradley,

Apart from being Penn State's Defensive Coordinator (Tom Bradley), are we including the UK in this discussion? If so, surely Willie Park's Sunningdale and Huntercombe should be considered.

[Bradley Anderson]

The word Architect is really a generic term for a person who designs and guides a plan or undertaking, so any person who clears the land of gorse and heather for golf, or  routs a golf course to designate where the holes will be located or levels off 18 squares of land for sodding some patchy bits of putting surface fits that description.

Jim,

The men who were involved in those efforts were kind of like cave dwellers. They basically moved in to a structure that was already there and made a few modest improvements.

That's not a very good analogy, but its the best I got.  

I see NGLA as more of a true building of something that is wholly connected all the way around from the ground up, and from scratch.

[TEPaul]

Kyle:

I'd think Macdonald was probably fairly impressed with Sunningdale and Huntercombe which he was obviously aware preceded NGLA, but like Myopia, GCGC or even Chicago GC or Oakmont none of them were modeled after the most famous holes abroad or important and enduring parts or principles from them.

I think that is essentially the long and short of it when it comes to why Macdonald said he felt NGLA was the first example of classical golfing architecture.

[Bradley Anderson]

Tom/Bradley,

Apart from being Penn State's Defensive Coordinator (Tom Bradley), are we including the UK in this discussion? If so, surely Willie Park's Sunningdale and Huntercombe should be considered.

Kyle,

You need to explain why Sunningdale fits the definition. I think you may be right.

[TEPaul]

"Actually Tom, it's more like there YOU have it, because you have not 'unquestionably' shown that CBM felt he was the first Architect, only that he thought he was the first person who was practicing architecture at that time who was able to create an example of Ideal Architecture in America. There is a distinction between the two and I don't know why you are trying to blur the line between them."


Jim Kennedy:

I'm not trying to blur the lines between anything except perhaps some inconsequential and trivial hair-splitting distinctions some on here are trying to make.

What I'm interested in, other than what might be recognized as the beginning of golf course architecture, is what Macdonald ACTUALLY said about himself and/or NGLA and specifically WHY HE said it.

[Bradley Anderson]

This subject illustrates how difficult it is to have concensus of understanding of something from history when we can not agree on what words meant when they were written.

In case no noticed, the sun is beginning to set on western civilization. And we are not helping ourselves much in the way of preserving it when we can't even agree on what it was.

[Kyle Harris]

Tom/Bradley,

Apart from being Penn State's Defensive Coordinator (Tom Bradley), are we including the UK in this discussion? If so, surely Willie Park's Sunningdale and Huntercombe should be considered.

Kyle,

You need to explain why Sunningdale fits the definition. I think you may be right.

Bradley,

At the risk of outkicking my coverage here, Willie Park sought the linksland for motivation in the design at Sunningdale. My limited research would, at this point, largely credit Park with being the first to bring linksland strategy to an in-land golf course.

It would seem Macdonald was working independent of Park. At this point we seem to have a dichotomy of Golf Architecture:

The Park Model: Use the linksland to learn how hazard placement influences a shot. Use the in-land terrain to create original designs, looking to the topo/features for the placement of features. Augment with bunkers and green contours as necessary

The Macdonald Model: Use the linksland as templates for coastal and in-land designs. Directly copying links holes where they fit on the land.

[Jim_Kennedy]

The men who were involved in those efforts were kind of like cave dwellers. They basically moved in to a structure that was already there and made a few modest improvements.- Bradley

So you're saying they were renovation architects?  

Bradley,
There already exists a consensus of reputable thinking that the Man-in-Question (that elusive first architect) is Allan Robertson, no matter the debate on this site.

[TEPaul]

Bradley:

I'm not sure it's all that important to agree or form some consensus of opinion on when golf course architecture actually began and I doubt it's that important that there is ever a consensus of opinion on whether what Macdonald said about NGLA (and apparently about himself by implication) is true or not. What is important, at least to me, is simply to figure out what he meant when he made the statements he did which have been quoted on here this morning.

I believe I now understand exactly what he said and meant to say. If he thought that represented the first example of golf course architecture, I, for one, would definitely disagree with him. But I would agree that NGLA was the first example of golf course architecture that essentially relied on various pre-existing models (those famous named holes and what he considered to be the best features from parts of others) from abroad. If all he was doing was simply terming this type of over-all model as "classical" or "Ideal," then fine, I hear his point or distinction but I do not think his definition of classical or ideal architecture represented the first example of golfing architecture in a general sense.

[TEPaul]

"My limited research would, at this point, largely credit Park with being the first to bring linksland strategy to an in-land golf course."


Kyle:

You are certainly not alone in that point. A good number of golf course architectural historians and analysts over the years have said exactly the same thing about Park and Sunningdale (and Huntercombe). I think the stress very much goes on the word "INLAND," though.

[Kyle Harris]

"My limited research would, at this point, largely credit Park with being the first to bring linksland strategy to an in-land golf course."


Kyle:

You are certainly not alone in that point. A good number of golf course architectural historians and analysts over the years have said exactly the same thing about Park and Sunningdale (and Huntercombe). I think the stress very much goes on the word "INLAND," though.

Certainly, but we're still talking a handful of years before Macdonald.

Wasn't Macdonald strictly speaking about the United States is his self-marketing?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tom,
CBM also believed that he was building a course that was an example of the true, or historical, GCA for an American culture that he thought could just as easily lose itself in the novel. 

[TEPaul]

"Wasn't Macdonald strictly speaking about the United States is his self-marketing?"


Kyle:

No, I don't think so. He was very clear he was going to create this in America but I believe he meant he felt this kind of thing was the first example of golf architecture using this kind of model which he pretty clearly implied he thought was the first example of golfing architecture.

Sunningdale may be considered the first real application ever done INLAND of some of the strategic principles of the linksland (or pretty much coastal golf coures and sites) in a general sense, and Macdonald may very well have recognized and accepted that at the time, but Macdonald obviously saw his idea to actually recreate famous individual holes and/or parts of them and adapt them elsewhere as a first. And since it was, he seemingly labeled it the first example of golfing architecture he was aware of.
 
 
 

[TEPaul]

"Tom,
CBM also believed that he was building a course that was an example of the true, or historical, GCA for an American culture that he thought could just as easily lose itself in the novel."


Jim:

Absolutely. There's no question about it. He said that very thing and pretty clearly. I don't think it was even some fear on his part that America and the American culture could do that----he saw it very much happening and apparently quite often. It is the reason he made the remark; "It makes the very soul of golf shriek."

I also find some of the actual examples he gave to be very interesting. He did mention things that looked like chocolate drops and haycocks which probably were examples of what some of us refer to as early "geometric" architecture but he also mentioned numerous greens on the way out to the end of Long Island that looked like "pie-faced" women with 'marcel waves.'

I don't know if you know what marcel waves were but they were that style of the time where women used a "Marcel Iron" (apparently a French hair styling iron) to create tight and symmetrical waves.

Obviously this must have been early American architecture's first attemtps at some kind of naturalism to improve from the previous squared off lines of very early so-called "steeplechase" architecture and that rudimentary style and perhaps the slightly later true "geometric" style.

Macdonald also apparently did not appreciate that practically ever single one of that type of green (the pie-faced, marcel wave type) was distinctly propped up from back to front.

[TEPaul]

By the way, Jim, a few years ago after I took the ferry across Lake Champlain and as I was driving down its western side I ran across a very old nine hole golf course that had some of the most extraordinarily shocking examples of huge chocolate drops and what they used to call "Dragon's Teeth." They were huge and all in perfectly symmetrical lines. I sure hope they are preserved. Wouldn't want to lose real examples of an old fashioned style that is as representative as those things were.

I, for one, do not want to lose the last of the real life examples of what once made the very soul of golf shriek and what apparently prompted Macdonald to save the future of American golf from it! 

[Tony_Muldoon]

 Very interesting guys.

It may be splitting hairs a little but Park did at least one template green at Huntercombe when he deliberately copied this from Musselburgh.





I suspect there were others.  I don't wish to diminish MacDonald in all this.  I think he made a big difference to people perceiving how important it was to create interesting holes and his influence was felt over here.

In truth it was a thousand tiny steps that led us to where we are today and I would rather see a timeline of significant milestones rather than say X was the first.  Does Ran's list need revising?

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/Courses_by_Architect.html

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