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JMorgan

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Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« on: February 17, 2009, 10:49:07 PM »
I just finished reading Robert Graves' King Jesus.  Fascinating and controversial book. 

Upon reflecting upon what I could add to our discussion group, it just hit me: I'll bet there are not many golf courses in the Holy Land.  Am I wrong?  I admit I've not really done the research.

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 11:28:17 PM »
Paging Tim Liddy... who's been working in Isreal, with Pete Dye.
jeffmingay.com

Rob Rigg

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Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2009, 11:30:06 PM »
By Holy Land I thought you were talking about Fife . . . how silly of me.  ;)

TEPaul

Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2009, 12:08:15 AM »
What's meant by the Holy Land?

« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 07:57:16 AM by TEPaul »

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 12:27:55 AM »
I doubt that financing has been obtained for this project approved in early 2008:

http://tinyurl.com/39uyzq
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 03:16:36 AM »
As of a few years ago, there was only one course in Isreal. A nine holer, that was charging a ridiculous amount.
I'm not sure of the status of the project, but, Bill Goldman did obtain the rights to turn some ground, a former Kibutz, into a state park with a resort and GC. Mike Young and Charlie Rymer impressed Bill enough to hire them to do the job.

This course, if it is ever built will replace Furnace Creek as the lowest GC on the planet. It is located in the Jordan Valley some several hundred feet below sea level. (I think?)

This has been discussed before in here. It's been awhile, but, I'll never forget Uncle Boab's classic comment about how Kalishnikov's fit perfectly into a golf bags.   


"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tim Liddy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 07:21:14 AM »
Yes working on the only 18-hole golf course in Caesarea, Israel. It is a core golf course within a residential community. We are very proud of it and working in sand has been great. Finishing the landscape now and the golf course will be complete.  Palspalum fairways and greens are growing in nicely.

Israel has many great golf course sites along the sea with wonderful dunes and a great climate for golf.  If Israel can get sustained peace golf could become a major part of tourism from Europe and America –especially in the winter.

Israel is a great country and people. We have really enjoyed working and learning about this country, history and different cultures including Muslims, Christians and Jews. We have had them all working on the golf course. Great food!!


JMorgan

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Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 11:29:57 AM »
What's meant by the Holy Land?



The region would include present-day Israel, and parts of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt (a bit more than seen below):


Tim Liddy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 04:01:07 PM »
JMorgan,

Since you have read Robert Graves’ "King Jesus", I would highly recommend "Life of Christ"
by Giovanni Papini.  It was recommended to me by Dan Proctor.


Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 04:05:00 PM »
Bernie Madoff's Gazaview CC has been cancelled.  Floyd was designer.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2009, 02:34:54 AM »
Syria still only has one course, in Damascus.  Article fm '04 in LA Times:

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/nov/04/news/mn-102

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2009, 10:15:20 AM »
Yes working on the only 18-hole golf course in Caesarea, Israel. It is a core golf course within a residential community. We are very proud of it and working in sand has been great. Finishing the landscape now and the golf course will be complete.  Palspalum fairways and greens are growing in nicely.

Israel has many great golf course sites along the sea with wonderful dunes and a great climate for golf.  If Israel can get sustained peace golf could become a major part of tourism from Europe and America –especially in the winter.

Israel is a great country and people. We have really enjoyed working and learning about this country, history and different cultures including Muslims, Christians and Jews. We have had them all working on the golf course. Great food!!

 

Tim, that's very interesting ... Caesarea is an incredibly beautiful place...  what is the history of that course... I see it goes back to 1961?  Did you alter the routing in any way?  While you were there, what kind of discussion took place about future courses in the Middle East, if any?

Quite frankly despite the obvious religious/political strife I am surprised that there are only two courses in all of Israel, and only one 18-hole tract.

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2009, 10:40:55 AM »
What's meant by the Holy Land?



I always thought it was Augusta National
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2009, 01:23:45 PM »
As of a few years ago, there was only one course in Isreal. A nine holer, that was charging a ridiculous amount.
I'm not sure of the status of the project, but, Bill Goldman did obtain the rights to turn some ground, a former Kibutz, into a state park with a resort and GC. Mike Young and Charlie Rymer impressed Bill enough to hire them to do the job.

This course, if it is ever built will replace Furnace Creek as the lowest GC on the planet. It is located in the Jordan Valley some several hundred feet below sea level. (I think?)

This has been discussed before in here. It's been awhile, but, I'll never forget Uncle Boab's classic comment about how Kalishnikov's fit perfectly into a golf bags.   




Isn't that the guy we played with at Wild Horse back in '06?
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Peter Pallotta

Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2009, 03:54:29 PM »
JM -

sorry to sidetrack this, but have you ever read "In the Steps of the Master", the travel-to--the-Holy Land book by British writer HV Morton, about his trip there in (I think) the 1930s that also includes descriptions of earlier times and the recollections of earlier pilgrims. I think you might like it a lot.  And just to get golfclubatlas.com about this, I think Morton was well known in Britain for a series of books about walking tours to various parts of the Isles -- and I wonder if the walking-golf-nature association is tied to the love of walking tours.

Peter 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2009, 03:56:14 PM by Peter Pallotta »

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2009, 04:30:06 PM »
Peter,

I have not read it, but thanks for the suggestion. I'll add it to my book wish list.  I love walking tours, too.

I decided to read the Graves book really on a lark and recommendation, being familiar with his poetry and I, Claudius, and found myself gripped by the "argument" or novelistic theory, while following on Google Earth the whole time.  Quite amazing just to be able to point-and-click to Har Karkom or Gethsemane or Galilee....

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2009, 05:36:22 PM »
As of a few years ago, there was only one course in Isreal. A nine holer, that was charging a ridiculous amount.
I'm not sure of the status of the project, but, Bill Goldman did obtain the rights to turn some ground, a former Kibutz, into a state park with a resort and GC. Mike Young and Charlie Rymer impressed Bill enough to hire them to do the job.

This course, if it is ever built will replace Furnace Creek as the lowest GC on the planet. It is located in the Jordan Valley some several hundred feet below sea level. (I think?)

This has been discussed before in here. It's been awhile, but, I'll never forget Uncle Boab's classic comment about how Kalishnikov's fit perfectly into a golf bags.   



Adam,
Bill has put much effort into this project but as of now it is still sitting still...hopefully one day it can work....really passionate guy with a good idea......
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2009, 05:45:12 PM »
Thanx Mike, I'm sorry for you and Bill that it is stagnant.

Evan, Yes, I believe you have it correct. The next day he and I went out at Ballyneal and he was unaccustomed to walking undulated courses. He almost got my goat when he asked if there were any downhill holes.  ;)
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2009, 06:19:57 PM »
As of a few years ago, there was only one course in Isreal. A nine holer, that was charging a ridiculous amount.
I'm not sure of the status of the project, but, Bill Goldman did obtain the rights to turn some ground, a former Kibutz, into a state park with a resort and GC. Mike Young and Charlie Rymer impressed Bill enough to hire them to do the job.

This course, if it is ever built will replace Furnace Creek as the lowest GC on the planet. It is located in the Jordan Valley some several hundred feet below sea level. (I think?)

This has been discussed before in here. It's been awhile, but, I'll never forget Uncle Boab's classic comment about how Kalishnikov's fit perfectly into a golf bags.   



Adam,
Bill has put much effort into this project but as of now it is still sitting still...hopefully one day it can work....really passionate guy with a good idea......

Mike, is your project the course at Kibbutz Gaash or an entirely new one? 

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2009, 08:32:48 PM »
JMorgan,
We are in the kibbutz about 39 miles south of Lebanon border and right on the Jordan river....I think that is the proper name.....Bet Shean is the town.....
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Drew Standley

Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2009, 10:22:59 PM »
There are lots of golf courses in Texas.  :-* 




What?


JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2009, 08:07:42 PM »
Egypt is an entirely different case altogether.  For over one hundred years the only two grass courses in Egypt were Gezira and Mena House.  The course at the Gezira Sporting Club is the oldest golf course in Egypt, dating to 1888; it is located in Cairo, on a small island in the Nile.  The Mena House course (now part of the Oberoi Hotel (http://www.oberoimenahouse.com/en-US/Hotel/Spa_Fitness.aspx)) is a storied nine-hole course, with two sets of tees to play as 18; it has occupied the shadow of the Great Pyramid of Cheops for over a century.  (Supposedly Mena course is getting an RTJII make-over.)

Three "desert" courses also survived into the mid-20th c.  The Heliopolis course, designed with input from JH Taylor, had gravel and sand fairways that were watered and rolled, and "greens" made up of a special white sand brought in from the desert that created a "medium-paced" putting surface.  Sands of different coarseness were also used to imitate "rough" and its effect on ball movement, while bunkers were ringed with sedge to trap the ball inside their limits.  Courses at Maadi (1920) and the course at the sulphur springs at Helouan-les-Bains were constructed in a similar fashion -- that is, all-sand courses, like Heliopolis, with Helouan considered the finest and most difficult sand course in the world.  A few nine-hole courses sprung up with the influx of shipping and the work on the Suez Canal (eg. Port Said, Suez, and Ismailia) -- and then disappeared.

After Nasser took over in the '50s, most clubs were nationalized or appropriated for public land use.

As of '95, only three courses remained in play --  Gezira, Mena House, and Alexandria (1898). 

Now within the last 10-12 years, as many as three dozen golf courses have either opened for play or are in planning or development.  Ron Fream designed the Pyramids GC (maybe Ron will see this and comment); Madinat Makadi, Jolie Ville Movenpick, and Taba Heights were all completed by John Sanford; Gene Bates and Fred Couples, the Golf Club at El Gouna; Gary Player at Cascade Somaa Bay; Thomson, Perrett and Lobb at Ein Bay and New Giza (http://www.tpl.eu.com/current-proj-02.php); Greg Norman and Troon at Allegria; Peter Harradine at Mirage City Heliopolis; Karl Litten at Stella di Mare and Dreamland Golf (a project that received a lot of press); and etc. 

The most rapid development is taking place along the Mediterranean, to the west of Alexandria, and at the Red Sea, to the southeast of Cairo. 

If anyone is currently working on a project in Egypt, please tell us about it.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 08:54:04 PM by JMorgan »

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2009, 11:27:35 AM »
A few tidbits about golf in Lebanon:

Golf in Lebanon at present pretty much comprises the GC of Lebanon (1923) in Beirut.  Despite recent conflicts along the southern border btw Hezbollah and Israel, and the issues always attending the ongoing presence of Hezbollah in the country, I'd bet that Lebanon sees an increase in development over the next few decades in the Bekaa Valley, including Zahle and Baalbek, and around Jounieh and Batron up through the Kadisha Valley. 

I know of several Lebanese families here in NY, including the owners of one of the country's largest construction firms, who are moving back to Lebanon.  Banks have higher deposit limits in Lebanon -- in fact, the Lebanese financial system in general is very strict compared to other capitalist economies -- plus it has weathered the current economic downturn without much damage. 

Ron Fream's company Golfplan is currently developing a plan for a resort course in Kfardebian: http://www.sayfco.com/ahlamgolfresort/main.html.

And then there is this project, which is reminiscent of a similar development in another Arabic country: http://www.cedarsisland.com

Finally, I like this snapshot (from the NYTimes c. 1981).  Fortitude as golf during wartime:

Probably the classic Beirut ''thriver'' is George Beaver, an 89-year-old British businessman who retired to Beirut, he explained, because of the ''absence of taxes, the availability of household help and the low cost of whisky.'' Almost daily during the 1975-76 civil war and the years following it, Mr. Beaver played golf at Beirut's Golf Club of Lebanon. He became known as the ''Lone Ranger'' as he plodded around the golf course by himself, hitting around the empty shell cases, chipping out of bunkers both new and old and putting into any number of holes that appeared on the greens. Only the most intense bombardments of the summer of '82 kept him off the links. He was probably crazy to play, he admitted, but, he added, he would have been ''even crazier'' if he didn't.




« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 12:07:48 PM by JMorgan »

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2009, 10:43:19 AM »
And just to provide some closure to this holy, ah, tour ... Jordan.

Not many options in Jordan. In fact only one option.

If you enjoy your greens on the oily side and you find yourself in Amman rather than Petra, this is your venue:

http://www.golfinjordan.com

Thank you, come again.

 

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Courses of the Holy Land
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2010, 04:18:47 PM »
The Mena House course (now part of the Oberoi Hotel (http://www.oberoimenahouse.com/en-US/Hotel/Spa_Fitness.aspx)) is a storied nine-hole course, with two sets of tees to play as 18; it has occupied the shadow of the Great Pyramid of Cheops for over a century.  (Supposedly Mena course is getting an RTJII make-over.)

The make-over is underway. I enquired about playing there yesterday and was told the course was "closed for a renovation".

I played the new Pharoah nine at Dreamland instead and it was really quite enjoyable. Some very good holes and a view of the pyramids, though not nearly as nearby as at Mena House.