GolfWorld article on Dick Wilson

« **Reply #50 on:** February 04, 2009, 07:03:26 PM »

I may be wrong but wasn't it Dick Wilson who hacked up Thomas' work at Bel Air including destroying the Mae West hole? If I am correct that it was Wilson then I can't say I am very impressed by his work.

« **Reply #51 on:** February 04, 2009, 07:06:06 PM »

"Tom -

You are on a roll. I wouldn't dare jump in.

"

Bullshit Crosby! You jump right in at the deepend here. You know as well or better than I do that nothing can be sustained very long without something to do with drugs and sex in it!

« **Reply #52 on:** February 05, 2009, 01:23:26 AM »

Jeff
I wrote an article on Wilson's trip to Australia for a past issue of GA magazine (issue 10 of 2007) - I'm shocked that you could not remember it!

It also included a profile on Wilson so it was a bit more that just his 1959 trip. And yes, he did consult with around 6 or so other Australian clubs.

Wilson was a decent player I believe, in the late 1930's he took a job as the professional and greenkeeper at Delray Beach CC in Florida.

If anyone wants a PDF copy of the article feel free to email me at neil@golfstrategies.com.au and I'd be happy to email it back.

« **Reply #53 on:** February 05, 2009, 02:56:09 AM »

Jeff,

Wilson, by all accounts, spent very little time on the site when Metro was being rebuilt.
The front nine is on quite flat but sandy ground but the land he got to do the 10th - 16th holes was not only flat but on quite heavy clay.
We had to redo three holes a couple of years ago because the par 3, 13th was too close to neighbouring houses. The only original Wilson greens left are 11,14,15 and 16 and all are very good.
I think the 12th green we did was an improvement and his 14th hole had been altered by trees and others fiddling with his bunkers. In time I hope the newer holes on the back nine can feel more like the front nine holes.
Tom Doak gave the course a 6 - I suspect made up of a 7 on the front and a 5 on the back.

I will see if I can organize a copy of next weeks telecast which will give you a decent idea of how the course looks.

« **Reply #54 on:** February 05, 2009, 03:04:52 AM »

Mike
Wilson spent around a week at Metro in January 1959, walking the course and the new land, making notes and drawing sketches. He then briefed the committee on his ideas before going on to report on Yarra, Huntingdale, Kooringal and Sorrento. He then went to Canberra and Sydney. It also seems he popped in to RM while in Melbourne to check out the idea of the Composite Course for the Canada Cup that was to be held later that year. His plans for Metro did not arrive until April 1959. There were LOTS of problems in construction and grow-in, mostly to do with the clay you mentioned - the holes didn't open for play until Feb 1962. He spent exactly ZERO time on site during construction.

I haven't seen Metro since your changes and hopefully will get a chance before too long.

« **Reply #55 on:** February 05, 2009, 05:09:32 AM »

Neil,

Thanks for that - very interesting and as I had assumed.
Trent-Jones also did a plan for the back nine (I have a copy somewhere) but obviously Wilson got the job.
It seems bizarre that the club never insisted he come out to make sure his plans were translated onto the ground as he intended.
I guess Vern Morcom and Sloan Morpeth were two of very few local architects who could have done the job.
I wonder how they felt about an American getting the job and then never coming out to see it?

« **Reply #56 on:** February 05, 2009, 05:43:13 AM »

Mike
I'm sure they were less than impressed, probably similar to today seeing RM using Hawtree!
I didn't know RTJ did a plan for Metro - would be interesting to see.

Who knows why the club thought they could build it themselves, a retired civil engineer on the committee, John Woodcock, had the job of overseeing the construction.

A question was posed earlier in the thread about Metro's bunkering being cut right into the edge of the greens. While I'm not sure whether the bunkers were cut right into the greens prior to 1959, this was a look that Wilson clearly wanted - either to continue or as a new look, as this is readily apparent from his green plans. Here's the one for the par 3 11th.

« **Reply #57 on:** February 05, 2009, 08:21:05 AM »

Very interesting info., men. Thanks.

Neil... I now recall your Wilson article appearing in the journal. I'm going to dig it out today!

Thanks again,

« **Reply #58 on:** February 05, 2009, 10:48:57 PM »

Jeff
And so you should!

« **Reply #59 on:** February 12, 2009, 01:39:32 AM »

Guys, It was refreshing to hear accolades regarding this very talented, straightforward,though unrevered architect!During my Chicago years(1970-2), we would yearly splurge a visit to the area's most expensive Public/Cog Hill($7.50 G.Fee), and depart wonderfully challenged.Relocating to my Columbus(O) roots provided a few D.W. snippets.Dick Wilson was retained as the 1964 PGA Doctor(Columbus CC/Bobby Nichols-Wn), and was provided the President's secretary as the course liaison;whereas, upon visiting the elevated 1st Tee, became visibly agitated prompting the liaison's verbal concern and Mr.Wilson's reply------"This Tee,this Tee is elevated excessively;Drop Elevation 6 inches".After visiting a few additional holes, he requested his Airport return, stating---"I can't feel this golf course"----He was viewed a Genius.Jack Nicklaus's recommendation provided Dick Wilson's Scioto renovation, elevating most Greens to the chagrin of many members; additionally, incurring continuous green maintenance,and frequent Course closure with Green Turf extermination/regrowth.It appears the elevation (Green) foundation was Clay, from the recently completed Ohio State House underground garage.The course ('07-'08/Hurdzan) USGA Spec. Green renovation,and J.Nicklaus Bunker/Tee Suggestions have been overwhelmingly Positive.I must admit,though I never played the Pre-Wilson Scioto, I have always rated within my Top '5', with its small land parcel, never feels cramped ;additionally,placing NCR South just outside my Top '10' primarily equipment/rendered Short,ex.#18/421 yds.The (Links design) NCR North course has created recent BK/Tee's('04-06) and provides additional complimentary variety.I trully admire DW's canvas.

« **Reply #60 on:** February 12, 2009, 04:30:07 AM »

Quote from: Jeff_Mingay on February 04, 2009, 05:41:57 PM

Imagine, there's ONE Robert Trent Jones course reviewed by our esteemed friend, Ran Morrissett, here, at this web site... and, NOT A SINGLE Dick Wilson course.

Interesting

Those 50s and 60s courses are all wicked

Maybe we could suggest a few for future profiling, like Pine Tree for example. Regardless of the (seemingly low) opinion this site seems to have for this era, it couldn't hurt to have it represented on this site.

« **Reply #61 on:** February 12, 2009, 06:59:26 AM »

Wilson's body of work is impressive, especially, given the short span of his creative days.

His work at Pine Tree, on a perfectly flat piece of land, complicated and convoluted by segmentation for real estate development is quite impressive.

Ran should replay and then post a review on Pine Tree.

« **Reply #62 on:** February 12, 2009, 07:14:36 AM »

I have had the privilege of renovating one of Dick Wilson's courses. I enjoyed many stories from the old timers at the club who essentially fired him after nine holes for his antics.

Great artcile.

Lester

« **Reply #63 on:** February 12, 2009, 09:59:08 AM »

A Dick Wilson course I'd suggest for a profile is Meadowbrook in Long Island. It's pretty early for Wilson (1953-55, I think) and it shows me some of the interesting innovations of his emanating new modern age style of that time, including a few of the biggest greens I've seen.

I was actually on it and around it when it was under construction and I believe the membership had to have asked him to create something really challenging.

« **Reply #64 on:** February 12, 2009, 11:05:59 PM »

I recently played Wilson's Lake Worth, FL muni. It's a pleasant course on the Intracoastal with some history:

http://www.lakeworthgolf.com/

Great picture of Babe Ruth with Gene Sarazen in the clubhouse.

« **Reply #65 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:12:03 AM »

They ran a Playing lessons show at Pine Tree in Florida and it looked amazing.

''Rees Jones has become a student of Wilson's design elements.''
'' "I don't think people could really understand his nuances," (Rees)Jones says. "His bunkering doesn't look as intricate as it really is. He was very subtle.'' "

Woooow... Rees Jones completely butchered Royal Montreal Blue, messed up the angles, ruined the bunkering, flattened Wilson's smart use of the natural contours, took all the spirit out of the place, switch somes hole on the routing, demolished the greens...

and then he says THAT

I should have said; Wilson is really subtle, I (rees jones) absolutely don't get it...

« **Reply #66 on:** February 13, 2009, 09:01:14 AM »

Phillippe:

Do you really think Rees butchered Royal Montreal? I saw it (played it) for the first time last fall. I didn't mind it at all but I have no idea what it was like previous to his redoing it for the President's Cup Matches.

« **Reply #67 on:** February 13, 2009, 09:06:33 AM »

Tom,

I've discussed Royal Montreal-Blue with Philippe in detail.

Whether Rees Jones "butchered" the course is probably a subjective opinion, but what's certain is that Wilson's original design (done with Joe Lee, I believe) was fundamentally changed... routing, greens, bunkers, etc.

Rees Jones' work was not an enhancment of the original design. Major redesign changes were made.

« **Reply #68 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:20:39 PM »

OK, I'll correct my words...

Rees Jones butchered Dick Wilson's design... Rees design another course

« **Reply #69 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:47:16 PM »

That's what I thought you meant, Penguin!

Owns, owns... he owns the Chiefs!

« **Reply #70 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:51:16 PM »

I'm happy that while moving, I found the 2001 (pre_Rees) Canadian Open official book... sadly the pictures aren't very big or good.

I might find the 1997 one, and start to cry...

the good thing is the RMontrealGC still has the Red Course... which means they have at least one Dick Wilson Course.

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