1st time on TOC. To caddy or not to caddy?

[Anthony Gray]

On my only go round, we played without a caddie and somehow successfully missed all fairway bunkers sans one ... 


Not to create a mini-firestorm or go off tangent to this topic but do the modern (younger) caddies at TOC use lasers range finders?

    Mike,

  There you go again trying to start stuff . THIS is a very good question. Last september at Cruden Bay my caddie used GPS. Of course they only allow members to caddie. But I would say in time you wil see them at TOC. I wonder if there would be an official ban on them for caddie use. It is something to think about.

  Anthony

[Andrew Mitchell]

Tony

I don't know what your itinerary is but, as others have suggested, if I were in your shoes I'd be inclined to make sure I'd walked the course before hand and also possibly read Desmond Muirhead & Tip Anderson's book on how to play the Old Course and made notes of appropriate driving lines etc.  That plus the yardage book would provide me with enough information without paying for a caddy. 

However being a careful Yorkshireman with Scots blood maybe I'm just too tight to fork out for a caddy on top of the green fee 

The first time I played TOC (many, many years ago) I was a walk up and got paired with an American who didn't know his way round either.  I wouldn't have dreamed back then of taking a caddy as I would have thought I was getting ideas above my station!

Despite what I've written above I concede that local knowledge can be a great help.  When I last played TOC a couple of years ago I was paired up with two R&A members who were very helpful in providing advice as we went around.

[Adam Clayman]

I'll relate a story from Bruce one of the older caddies who caddied for Tiger on his first round as a pro @ TOC. They get to 18 and Tiger reaches for his driver. Bruce stops him and says it's too much club. Tiger says "I'll cut it". He drives the green much to the consternation of Bruce. So I asked him "what did you do?" Bruce says with a deep throated laugh "I have him a sheit read". 

[Mike Benham]

Mike,

There you go again trying to start stuff .

I was actually surprised at both yours and  Melvyn's initial reply strongly suggesting the use of a caddie.

If there would be one course in the world where you should play it without outside influence and information, TOC would be the place.

[Rich Goodale]

Agreed, Mike.

If you are making love for the first time with Catherine Deneuve, do you want Marcello Mastrioni in the bed with you giving advice?

Rich

[Bill_McBride]

I'll relate a story from Bruce one of the older caddies who caddied for Tiger on his first round as a pro @ TOC. They get to 18 and Tiger reaches for his driver. Bruce stops him and says it's too much club. Tiger says "I'll cut it". He drives the green much to the consternation of Bruce. So I asked him "what did you do?" Bruce says with a deep throated laugh "I have him a sheit read". 

Adam, I wonder if that's my personal favorite guy there, Bruce Sorley.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mike

I would not actually disagree with your statement, but what we must remember is that we are generally talking about overnight visits on the way from or to other courses within a tight schedule.

Time is important as many want to cram in as many courses as possible.

I don’t agree with this. As I feel you miss exactly what the golfers has come to experience, rush and you miss the magic and understand of the Scottish or for that matter the GB&I courses.

I have always suggested one takes ones time and play a least 36 holes with enough time to play other courses in the area. Too much too quickly will diminish the whole point of the visit, but it is understandable as we all seek value for money.

Time allows the opportunity to observe the land, slowly understanding some of its ways and also by watching others more experienced with the course can explain some of its little foibles, hence my initial statement of not needing a caddy. If Tony has time to familiarise himself with St Andrews then no need for a caddy.

If time is tight I would suggest he needs to take full advantage of the circumstances and take a caddy, not for distance crap but for the lines and contour details which will help him enjoy his first round of TOC.

No brainer really, it’s down to value for money and taking away as much as you can ready for your next trip to TOC.

As for range finders on TOC well that just tells everyone what type of golfer you really are – I expect that will be a prerequisite to joint the R&A in the future or should I say the inability to think for oneself. Typical head in the sand stance, but then that’s only my opinion of some of the Members. 

Melvyn

[Anthony Gray]

Mike,

There you go again trying to start stuff .

I was actually surprised at both yours and  Melvyn's initial reply strongly suggesting the use of a caddie.

If there would be one course in the world where you should play it without outside influence and information, TOC would be the place.

  Mike,

  I always use a caddie. They become friends. My caddie from ten years ago at TOC has been to my house in the states. My caddie at Casa De Campo indirectly introduced me to my wife. My caddie at Bandon one time had the lense blown out of his glasses. I think caddies offer many intangibles to the round. Adam Clayman and I have very briefly discussed this and agreed that a round with a caddie triples the enjoyment. Donny Miller at Pinehurst is a secound generation caddie and a first class gentelman. They provide more to the round besides yardages and putting lines.

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

Agreed, Mike.

If you are making love for the first time with Catherine Deneuve, do you want Marcello Mastrioni in the bed with you giving advice?

Rich

   Rich,

  If you are making love to Catherine Deneuve, odds are you have been there before.

  Anthony

[Mark Chaplin]

Anthony

I cannot agree more that a good caddie enhances your experience, Kenny my bag man at PV did just that.

However being forced to have caddie and find a kid who knows nothing whatsoever about the game does nothing to improve the experience. One even lost a head cover and never mentioned it or made any attempt to ask the caddies in the groups behind if they'd found it.

As for having a caddie run alongside while you ride in a buggy so he can attend the flag and rake bunkers what's that all about?

[JSlonis]

Our group stayed at the Crail Golf Hotel during our few days in Fife. At the time we were the only guests at the hotel so we got to spend a good amount of time with the proprietor of the hotel Graham Guthrie. He was a great guy and a pretty good player as well.  We had arranged a 10:00 am tee time on TOC and then another 18 at Crail as his guests in the pm. 

He suggested to our group that we just carry our owns bags, get a Yardage Book and skip the caddies.  Perhaps he just wanted us to save our $$ for more beer at his Pub.   We had four fairly low hdcp. players and he thought we'd get around just fine.  Although I'm sure TOC caddies are quite fun, I'm glad we took his advice and went out alone.  Without the usual "double bag" caddies that you find so often here in the US, the groups with all caddies just looked too busy.

We had no trouble at all figuring our way around the course and had one of the best days I've ever experienced in golf.

[Tom Huckaby]

Bingo, Jamie.

I think this need not be so complex (and fully admit I was guilty of adding to the complexity).

A caddie is certainly not NECESSARY on TOC, even the first time.  One can certainly find his way just fine.

If one enjoys the experience of taking a caddie in general, is not setting out to discover the course for himself, and has no worries about the added cost, then by all means, do it.  It is quite likely to add to the experience (though not guaranteed, so keep that in mind also).

If does not in general enjoy caddies, wants to make it a voyage of self-discovery, has issues with costs, or wants guarantees of added enjoyment, then don't do it.

OK maybe that added to the complexity also.

 
TH

[Mark Smolens]

In my experience, both here, and across the pond, there are bag carriers and there are caddies.  I kind of like having a kindred spirit alongside rooting for me (or, as at Troon, betting on me!) to do well -- perhaps under the misconception that my score would in some manner dictate a tip.  Few things in life are better than an old Scottish game giving you an "ooh, fine shot lad" when you've knocked down that 6 iron under the wind from 110 yards to 10' when your playing partners all hit 9 irons 25 yards short.

[Thad Layton]

Depends on the person but for me, I will schlep my own bag around TOC until I am no longer physically able. By financial necessity, our first time out on TOC was without a caddie. We were able to navigate our way around the course just fine (all you need to know is "HIT IT LEFT" as all the trouble is on the right) and truly discover the course at our own pace. The very next day our threesome played in the same group with a gentleman that hired a caddie for the day- his only concern seemed to be rushing us around the course.

[Bob_Huntley]

The very next day our threesome played in the same group with a gentleman that hired a caddie for the day- his only concern seemed to be rushing us around the course.

Thad,


With respect, I am afraid that the problem is with you. You are the employer here and no matter if he is the greatest wit and caddie in Fife, he should do your bidding. He should be taken aside and whispered your needs and wants in his ear. No blustering or pomposity, just the facts, we are playing golf and not at a track meet.

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

The very next day our threesome played in the same group with a gentleman that hired a caddie for the day- his only concern seemed to be rushing us around the course.

Thad,


With respect, I am afraid that the problem is with you. You are the employer here and no matter if he is the greatest wit and caddie in Fife, he should do your bidding. He should be taken aside and whispered your needs and wants in his ear. No blustering or pomposity, just the facts, we are playing golf and not at a track meet.

Bob

Bob speaketh the truth, of course.

However that is at times easier said than done, at least for some of us.  In my bad caddie experience nothing I could have done nor said would have changed the guy's behavior.  BUT... I didn't try all that hard to change it, hoping he would come around on his own.  Lesson learned.  If the caddie is not performing satisfactorily, heed Bob's advice.

TH

[Carl Johnson]

I've played probably 25 courses in Scotland and TOC is the only place I've used a caddy.  I could not have done it the first time around without one, just to know where to try to hit the ball.  I'd probably need a caddy at least a couple more times before I was comfortable on my own.  Each member of our four-ball took a caddy (it was morning -- we had to).  We used trainee caddies.  They are less expensive than full caddies, and ours at least knew the way around the course.  For example, "on this hole you need to drive it in the right or left rough -- right is probably better."  (My trainee caddy was not a great reader of the greens, however.)  Another plus for the trainees is that they are looking for a full caddy position, and at the end of the round you, the golfer, rate them on a card.  Knowing that they'd be rated, we found our trainee caddies trying to extremely courteous and and helpful, as helpful as they could be.  At no time did we feel rushed.  Based on our experience, I'd suggest the trainee route if possible.  I understand TOC also has " bag carriers" who may be cheaper than trainees, but I have no experience with them.  The other alternative, mentioned by others, is to go out with a local who really knows the course.  On a different trip three members of our group lucked into a walk-on situation at about 5:30 pm and by chance were paired with a friendly, knowledgeable local.

[Mike Benham]

Typical head in the sand stance, but then that’s only my opinion of some of the Members. 

Melvyn -

I owe you a more in depth reply but I can't do it at this moment.

However, in regards to your comment about the R&A are you a Member or a Nominee?

Mike

[Mark Chaplin]

Carl - you had to take a caddie as it was the morning.......had you over consumed on the kummel the previous night or been had over??

[Carl Johnson]

I stand corrected.  Upon reflection, as best I can now recollect (from May 2007), we were not allowed to use a trolley before noon, which prodded us to the caddy option.  I hope this is right.  If not, never mind.  Also, I hope we were not had, and by our 11:40 am, or so tee times, whatever prior evening drinks we had, had worn off (or so we thought).

[Mike_Cirba]

Having two caddies join us added immeasurably to my one and regrettably only one round I've played at The Old Course.

I still tell the stories.

[Tony_Muldoon]

I offered this up as a yes no proposition and thought the tread would die fast, but other options have been suggested. I’ve been lucky enough to  paly/walk golf courses with 9 respondents here and thanks for everyone’s thoughts on here and by IM.

Tony,
My advice would be to take a caddy.

I played a 36 hole match against Sean at Ganton immediately after he left St Andrews. Despite being my opponent he kept offering me advice, particularly to club up, for the elevation changes and for the wind. He was always right.

I have never used a caddy in my life.... I can obviously see the advantages (both golfing and job creation-wise) but I prefer to share my round with other golfers who are there for fun and not employment... I am probably missing out on an integral part of the game but I've come this far...

First time I met Ally my back was in recovery. I felt fine but was scared to hit a ball as I needed to make sure I was Ok.  So I walked while he and another GCA member played a match.  He repeatedly declined my offer to carry the bag for a while.

Tony

It all depends on whether you want to experience the course on your own (friends included) or be guided round.  What I am finding interesting in this thread is that it seems to be an overwhelmingly American attitude to take a caddie.  I wonder if Brits responded in the same numbers if the YEA consensus would be anything like it currently is.  For my part, I didn't want anything to do with a caddie and I didn't take one.  I never once went in a bunker I couldn't see and just remembered to stay left.  It made for some interesting approaches which I tried to alter the subsequent rounds.  It really isn't nearly a big a deal as folks are making out on this thread.  You have played plenty of holes where you didn't really know what was going on.  Did you find any of the results disastrous?  The best advice I can give you is to remember first and foremost that you are still playing a game. 

Ciao   

One thing's for certain I’ll have a great time and I won’t be keeping score.

Tony

I don't know what your itinerary is but, as others have suggested, if I were in your shoes I'd be inclined to make sure I'd walked the course before hand and also possibly read Desmond Muirhead & Tip Anderson's book on how to play the Old Course and made notes of appropriate driving lines etc.  That plus the yardage book would provide me with enough information without paying for a caddy. 

Andrew I’ve got that one; Rich’s Experience the Old course, Scot McPherson’s new Tome, the “Wee Nip” about caddies, The Story of the R&A and the Scoresaver guide to GB&I to study in advance.  I also have a video of the last open there. I will be prepared.


I often wonder if anyone’s mind is changed by threads on here and mine has been by this one.  I realised I’ve got the best possible deal.  Ill be there for a week with my family and they’ll tolerate me playing 3 rounds. 

We arrive on a Saturday and so the dog will get a long walk over the links on the Sunday.

Monday morning I have decided to get up early and queue.  No Caddy just see what lady luck brings me in terms of playing partners and lies.

Then I hope to get in to the daily ballot (I believe I need to find another player to do this with?) partly because that too is part of the experience and play on a day I get through. I’ve never had a real caddy – a 5 euro bag carrier in Morocco doesn’t count – and I realise that I want that experience too.  So with a little luck I will be able to link up with one of the guys suggested on emails for my second round. (I still won’t count score).

And the third round...we’ll see.

Thanks guys.

[Bill_McBride]

You do need two or more to enter the ballot.  Perhaps your innkeeper has another guest who's a single looking for a game.  The innkeepers are best to submit you for the ballot.

Whatever you do, it will be a special experience.  I'm jealous as hell...!