[Mark_Rowlinson]

In my discussion with a members' club professional yesterday he mentioned that the way in which the professional is 'retained' by the club hasn't really changed in thge past 100 years. But he also said that the job had changed considerably, particularly recently. He now has much more to do with the day to day golfing operations of the club. He sits on a number of management committees - something that would not have been countenanced even twenty years ago. He also has an ambassadorial role in making contact with the local schools etc seeking junior members, attracting them into the game, running junior golf teams, ensuring that visitors and visiting parties are given a good and total experience for their green fee, even public speaking representing the club at meetings. In the past that would always have been the Captain, Hon. Secretary or President.

Yet just down the road are a couple of golf supermarkets selling clubs, balls and other equipment at prices far below anything he can match. You don't need to turn to him for lessons - they are available at evening classes, in Saturday and Sunday morning groups at all the local driving ranges and public courses.

100 years ago the professional would also have been the greenkeeper. Now they have a course manager and his staff of 6 who run on an annual budget of £350,000. (Remember this is England, not Long Island!).

Given that many clubs are going to be looking to make cost cuts on a big scale, what is the future for the club professional?

[Bob_Huntley]

In my discussion with a members' club professional yesterday he mentioned that the way in which the professional is 'retained' by the club hasn't really changed in thge past 100 years. But he also said that the job had changed considerably, particularly recently. He now has much more to do with the day to day golfing operations of the club. He sits on a number of management committees - something that would not have been countenanced even twenty years ago. He also has an ambassadorial role in making contact with the local schools etc seeking junior members, attracting them into the game, running junior golf teams, ensuring that visitors and visiting parties are given a good and total experience for their green fee, even public speaking representing the club at meetings. In the past that would always have been the Captain, Hon. Secretary or President.

Yet just down the road are a couple of golf supermarkets selling clubs, balls and other equipment at prices far below anything he can match. You don't need to turn to him for lessons - they are available at evening classes, in Saturday and Sunday morning groups at all the local driving ranges and public courses.

100 years ago the professional would also have been the greenkeeper. Now they have a course manager and his staff of 6 who run on an annual budget of £350,000. (Remember this is England, not Long Island!).

Given that many clubs are going to be looking to make cost cuts on a big scale, what is the future for the club professional?

Mark,

BLEAK.

Bob

[John Moore II]

So far as I can see it, there will always be club professionals of some kind, the owners will just continue to pay us less and less money. The business has changed. Pro's no longer get pro shop concessions, cart concessions, range concessions, etc. But there will always be a need for club professionals of some kind.

[Brian_Sleeman]

At many places these days the golf professional is asked to serve all those roles you describe (each with its own merits), but sadly less and less emphasis is placed on a long-lasting relationship with the facility's members/customers as "their golf guy" - the guy you go to for a swing fix, to talk with about the latest tournament, the last great course you played, the enjoyment you get out of the game, etc.  Thankfully it's still in place at most of if not all of the great places, and despite the trend of turning pros into (or replacing them with) GM's, I'm optimistic it'll never go away.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I should have added that 100 years ago he also ran the caddies. There aren't any at such clubs today. He may also have been pressed into service serving behind the bar at busy times. But that was the only time he was allowed in the clubhouse.

[Dave_Miller]

In my discussion with a members' club professional yesterday he mentioned that the way in which the professional is 'retained' by the club hasn't really changed in thge past 100 years. But he also said that the job had changed considerably, particularly recently. He now has much more to do with the day to day golfing operations of the club. He sits on a number of management committees - something that would not have been countenanced even twenty years ago. He also has an ambassadorial role in making contact with the local schools etc seeking junior members, attracting them into the game, running junior golf teams, ensuring that visitors and visiting parties are given a good and total experience for their green fee, even public speaking representing the club at meetings. In the past that would always have been the Captain, Hon. Secretary or President.

Yet just down the road are a couple of golf supermarkets selling clubs, balls and other equipment at prices far below anything he can match. You don't need to turn to him for lessons - they are available at evening classes, in Saturday and Sunday morning groups at all the local driving ranges and public courses.

100 years ago the professional would also have been the greenkeeper. Now they have a course manager and his staff of 6 who run on an annual budget of £350,000. (Remember this is England, not Long Island!).

Given that many clubs are going to be looking to make cost cuts on a big scale, what is the future for the club professional?

Mark:
It appears to me it is somewhat different here in the States at least for the most part.  The Clubs I belong to have the Pro responsible for basically the golf program for the members and they attend golf committee meetings and sometimes Green committee meetings.  They also run the shop but at two of the Clubs I belong to the Club runs the shop and has employees and a Merchandise Manager and the Pro is spared this.  At these clubs the compensation reflects this.
At the others the pro runs and receives the income off the Shop and the Club incurs the expenses of running the shop.
It would seem to me that all Clubs would want their Pro to ensure guests and visitors are treated properly and in a first class manner.
As for the other items you mention I am not familiar with a club that requires those other duties.
Best
Dave

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

It is a sad prognosis I fear.
I agree one of the roles of the club professioanl was the "Club golf guy" to share opinions with, but that seems to be changing.
I hope that they continue to exist in a manner that allows them to make a suitable income, and that the current trend of clubs giving them less does not drive them out of the game.

I think some within the profession can change as well...well actually will have to change.
They will have to be more approachable by ALL their members, rather than a select few..be more involved in expanded memeber playing...more PR oriented than ever.

[Peter Nomm]

Speaking as one, it is defintely important to continually expand one's education to be prepared for increasing responsibilities.  This situation happened to me three years ago when our GM resigned and I was asked to assume the role.  

Quite honestly it has allowed me to delegate some of the more basic (aka "boring") duties to my assistants and spend more of my efforts in guiding the overall direction of the club.  The benefits have really been good - I have been able to offer my assistants more learning experiences, and thus have been able to hire better staff.  In addition, I now have much more opportunity to improve my role as the golf professional because I no longer need to run things through another person.  

Actually, to counter what Brian S just posted, it has allowed me more "face-time" with my members because I have been able to delegate the more mundane tasks.  

I am still young(ish) and plan to remain in this career for many years, so I find it enjoyable to expand my responsibilities.  Whether pros like it or not, the more the golf professional can offer his employer the greater chance he has to remain employed.  And I think it this trend will continue.  

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Michael,

The pro to whom I was speaking is very pro-active. He will survive and the job will change, partly as a result of his initiatives.

You may well know Ken Hall who was the pro at Sherwood Forest and was the first club pro to be appointed club secretary, a post he held concurrently. I'm not sure if he's still there, but it is a good course of which we should hear more on GCA, I think.

[Brian_Sleeman]

Completely agree, Peter, and I'm glad to hear your new role affords you the opportunity to get more face time with all of your members and focus on the most important tasks.  My point was more to the fact that the more hats you wear as a golf professional, the less the "golf guy" you become due to more of your time being taken up with these other tasks - not necessarily the case all the time, of course.  It seems with yours for instance you've lost the time-consuming busywork tasks (inventory counts and other duties not conducted directly with customers) in favor of more people-related tasks.  Sounds good to me!

And I completely agree that to survive you've got to keep upping your value to the facility for which you work.  It's the reason the role of the golf professional is so hard to specifically define, as each job is different.  And it's the reason I suggest to PGM'ers and other apprentices that they diversify their work experience as assistants as much as possible for maximum marketability and usefulness down the line.

[Andrew Bertram]

In there are 2 directions the clubs have headed in.

1. Traditional roles of contracted Professional who owns the business
2. The club taking over the golf shop and employing the Professional.

In my position I am contracted to manage the coomplete golf operations of the club with the exception of corporate golf outings which the club manage.
We look after all day to day operations as well as owning the retail shop and providing all teaching / coaching programs.

The role is far more diverse and intensive than that of a Club Pro from years past with a need to have a far wider range of skills.

In the Sandbelt only 2 of the 8 clubs have a contracted Professional, Royal Melbourne and here at Yarra Yarra.

The other 6 have taken the management of the Golf Operations and Golf Shop in house. This model only works at a small percentage of clubs in Australia.

Over the past decade there been a number of clubs who have tried to run the GOlf Shop themselves with very limited success, they invariably lose substantial amounts and drop the level of service to reduce costs. This has happened at nearly all clubs that are not in the upper level of club in Australia, such as the sand belt.

As Peter suggested there is also a move from Club Professional to the role of GM and the PGA are certainly working with Members to increase their skill set so they can move into this role. This is alos happening at smaller clubs in teh country areas where the Professional takes on both roles.

As far as the future there will continue to be Clubs that take over the golf operations and they will employ PGA members, it is a matter for PGA members to diversify their skill set so they move with the times.

Yarra Yarra were the first to take over the Golf Shop operations of the establishment clubs in 1999 and they were also the first to move back to a traditional model after losing substantial amounts in 2004.
 

[PCCraig]

I stated before in a previous post that I know of a somewhat big private club outside Chicago that laid off the entire Professional and Pro Shop Staff. From now on there are no more lessons, little inventory, no more big salaries and only 9-5 hours for the shop to be open to sell balls and tees. Apparently all they need is someone to man the phones (and pay him $40,000/year) and the bag drop/caddymaster can also be the starter.

The scary thing is when you think of it you really don't NEED 6 professionals on staff like many clubs have.

I hope that at the end of this downturn more clubs take a european approach to "show up, golf, have a drink, go home."

[TEPaul]

Mark:

I don't think the business of club professionals has that much to worry about other than to intelligently adjust to changing times and to get clubs to understand how changing times have changed things for the club professional and to intelligently adjust to it for the professional.

For instance, these massive golf discount stores and such are a relatively recent development and certainly do cut into the traditional club professional business of selling golf equipment (whether his club allows him to run that as an internal business or not).

If this is seriously hurting his traditional equipment sales income in his pro shop than the club should simply compensate his salary for the difference of that lost business income recognizing its members are obviously using those discount super stores too because they are cheaper than pro shop equipment.

The same should go for lost lesson business income to some other alternative like those discount super stores.

If it is done in this manner no one (members or professionals) is really losing out, are they? 

[PCCraig]

There is almost no reason for a club to loose out to a golf "discount" store. In fact most of the Golfsmiths and the such sell stuff at MSRP...not that cheap. They really compete in volume of selection.

However a club I know sells anything in the shop and anything to members at Cost + 10%. Which ends up being almost 30% under normal retail prices.

[jeffwarne]

The PGA and Club Pros themselves have been responsible for the demise of many jobs-which will get worse before it gets better.

By steering Pros toward GM positions, they've encouraged pros to make themselves replaceable(at a lower rate as well) by a 24 handicap manager from K-Mart or Olive Garden.
NOBODY wants to run out and play 9 holes with the 24 hdcp manager.

Pros who focus on golf and golf programs will survive and thrive IF (and this is a big IF) they have a solid game, are good teachers (very rare), and have an outgoing but not patronizing personality.

Expanding into Food and Beverage etc. at the expense of not spending time playing, teaching ,and mingling ,at worst doom one to replaceability, and it best provide a job with long hours doing tasks that ARE not the reason one would get into the golf business in the first place.(weddings,etc.)

The other problem is all the mediocre pros who were churned out in the 90's by the PGA apprentice program (with a little help the PGM programs) to fill the positions created by the mythical golf boom.
Many of these will work for little or nothing out of desperation-eventually they will move on but as Pat Craig points out many/most clubs aren't going to need 6 pros-or even 1-2 at the rate we're going.

One day down the road, clubs will again notice the value added role of the dedicated Club Pro, but first we have to wean the members off their clubhouse/golf course/locker room renovations/keeping up with the Joneses and get back to promoting,teaching, and PLAYING the game.

[Adrian_Stiff]

mark- From the Uk point of view it is obviously hard to make money as they used too. Retailing clubs have little margin for profit, the internet will rule here, but you possibly have clothing and the club logo, as a earner also provided the club give you planners, trolleys you can scrape by. The real profit is in the teaching, but it is here where too many price themselves out and I think pro's should charge £15 for say 30 minutes, a lot charge much more and get little work.
If they cross over to looking after societies, membership they are more the golf manager, a different role, some will do well.
I think professional golf will be in for a very tough time, it seems crazy when RBS is 70% state owned and in the state it is in that they sponsor golf, as soon as these contracts expire you may see fewer tournaments and perhaps just one 'race to dubai' which after all is linked to selling property.

[James Boon]

Michael,

The pro to whom I was speaking is very pro-active. He will survive and the job will change, partly as a result of his initiatives.

You may well know Ken Hall who was the pro at Sherwood Forest and was the first club pro to be appointed club secretary, a post he held concurrently. I'm not sure if he's still there, but it is a good course of which we should hear more on GCA, I think.

Mark,

I spoke to the pro at Sherwood Forest only this morning to book for a group of us in September, and it was Ken Hall so he is still there! I did find it odd that I was booking for so far ahead with the pro, but as he is secretary also it makes sense. From my brief conversation with him he seemed a nice guy which of course is just what is needed from the club pro.

If no one beats me to it I'll post pictures and comments on Sherwood Forest in late September...

Cheers,

James

[Sean_A]

Mark

The long time and at one time very competitive (on the local tour circuits) pro at Droitwich, Chris Thompson, switched to the secretary position a few years ago.  This chap at Sherwood Forest sounds quite unusual for the UK.  Most pros look after a shop and give lessons.  IMO, seeing how hard pros worked in the US while growing up, I have always been amazed how UK pros kept their jobs.  I think there will come a time when many clubs will ditch the pro.  In the UK all they basically offer that is valuable is lessons and lord knows there are way too may teachers for the number of students.  I have never had a lesson in my life and when I thought about getting some a few years back there was no way I was gonna use my pro.  I didn't know him well enough - which is a basic problem with UK pros, they don't usually hang with a large percentage of the membership.  If they do hang with some guys, it tends to be an elite group.  I for one am not too interested in paying some guy to be mates with a select group of members. 

Ciao   

[Brian_Sleeman]

Pros hanging around with a select group set an awful example and the two I've worked for definitely do not fall into that category - I'm hoping there are more like them than there are these clique types.

[Bill_McBride]

I think club pros who play with members of all levels and groups are going to make themselves popular with all.  I don't remember that our pro in Fairfax VA ever played with members when I was there (1983-1995), so you can imagine my surprise when both head and assistant pro played frequently in our regular Saturday dog fight - and cheerfully paid up if their team lost.

[Chris Garrett]

This is an interesting topic.  I actually left the golf business two and half years ago.  A partial reason for leaving was what I perceived as difficult times ahead for the golf business and golf professionals. 

There will always be a place, at the established clubs, for a do-it-all type of golf professional.  These are the jobs that you get and hold onto until you retire.

Outside of those types of clubs, times are tough and will only get tougher.  Many other clubs and courses simply don't see the benefit of employing truly qualified professionals, not to mention a full staff.  Many public courses today are more intent on churning through rounds and turning some sort of profit than they are about providing a quality golf experience.  I can remember during my high school days (late '90s) that several American Golf public courses in my area laid off the professional staffs and employed a "manager" to run the show, along with a staff of minimum wage retirees and high schools kids.

Another issue is the influx of Class A PGA Professionals being churned out from PGM schools.  When I applied to Penn State's PGM program in the winter of 1998/9, it was one of four in the country (w/ New Mexico State, Mississippi State, & Ferris State).  Now, that program is available at 20 colleges and universities.  The market is being flooded with young professionals who, quite frankly, are willing to work for next to nothing. 

[Brian_Sleeman]

At most busy places it's quite difficult for the pro to get time to play with their members and guests.  Many pros will do most anything to not look like they're ever taking a moment for themselves in a quest to keep their job and not give anyone a chance to point the finger, if even for a second.  It's too bad, because I think most members would enjoy the opportunity to get in some quality time with their pro on the golf course that brings them together in the first place.

[TEPaul]

MarkR and all:

Would you say if the supply of potential club pros out there seriously outstrips the demand for club pros that that indicates there is something wrong with the future of the club professional?

Personally, I wouldn't. That could be one reason the future of the club professional seems to look bleak to some.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Tom, I think the answer may be different in different countries. I'm not aware that there is an over-supply in the UK, but I could be wide of the mark. Your job as a professional at a well-run public facility with two or three courses, a driving range and other practice and teaching facilities can be very rewarding. A professional unlucky enough to be stuck at a stuffy old members' club might be very lonely.

[jeffwarne]

At most busy places it's quite difficult for the pro to get time to play with their members and guests.  Many pros will do most anything to not look like they're ever taking a moment for themselves in a quest to keep their job and not give anyone a chance to point the finger, if even for a second.  It's too bad, because I think most members would enjoy the opportunity to get in some quality time with their pro on the golf course that brings them together in the first place.

Brian,
People are going to point a finger either way.
If the pro doesn't play, my guess is he's going to have as many fingers if not more pointed his way.
At the end of the day, if not playing out of fear of finger pointing is allowing you to keep your job, you'd probably be better off doing something else anyway.
And you're right, most members would enjoy playing with the pro.

The PGA perpetuates this nonsense annually with THREE merchandiser of the year (public,private,resort)awards per section, as well as nationally.
No wonder some members want it to look like a polo outlet-----nonsense.

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