[Sean_A]

I see it as very important in the routing of the golf course, all my courses the 18th is right under neath.

I agree with Adrian.  It is a VERY important consideration to get the 18th green within sight of the house and an easy walk to the house.  Same with the first tee.  There are few things more disappointing than a long walk either out or from the course.  But then I have always been one to believe that the house and the course really are as one and the 19th hole means something to me.  I can accept an inferior 18th (so long as I don't have to take a bath for it) for the huge benefit of a nearby house.  The archie has 18 holes to impress me, if he has waited for the 18th to lower the boom, he has waited too long.  Plus, I am a walker, so I can accept the inherent limitations which walking places on course design.  Of course there are always exceptions, but they had better be for exceptional reasons.  Without exception all of my very favourite courses end near the house.  In fact, just to give an example, I downgrade Dornoch because of where it finishes - it is a desperately disappointing walk to the house from the 18th.  Contrasted with nearby Brora and the my meaning really hits home.

Ciao

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The thing about the home hole at TOC is that you are playing not so much towards a clubhouse but into the town and there is always a gallery of some sort, townsfolk, players and visitors, and there are several clubhouses, not just the R&A. And you get that twice, because you will not be unwatched as you tee off on the 1st.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I'm surprised to see some posts saying that it is not that important... I think it adds to the overall experience immeasurably...

Although my favourite "Terrace overlooking a green" is in fact the 14th at Woking... (which goes some way to Sean's argument about the routing there)

[Kevin Pallier]

I love the settings of Muirfield and Sunningdale's clubhouses. They're close enough but not too close and yet there's a wonderfull "old world charm ambience" about them.

TOC - however - steals the show....even if you cant go directly to the "old" clubhouse afterwards  

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The upstairs terrace at Conwy is a great place to watch play on the 18th coming towards the clubhouse and also players driving on the 11th, normally one of the more demanding drives of the round.

Relevant to another thread, there is out of bounds close at hand through the back of the final green (on the practice putting green), but the greater threat is gorse and thick scrub on the right of the green, although the approach shot should not be with too long a club unless the wind is in an unusual direction.

[Tom_Doak]

Adam:

The clubhouse and clubhouse site are seldom an afterthought.  However, in the scheme of things they are often a bit behind the schedule of the golf course itself ... in many cases the client is still trying to get a feel for the size and character of the clubhouse he will need, so the golf course proceeds before the details are clear.

My point is just that I value the golf holes more than the walk to the clubhouse.  If the last hole is a "9" and the walk is a "2", I'd say that was better than the last hole a "7" and the walk a "7".  At the end of the day, I have to say I don't really care much about sitting in the clubhouse watching other people come up the 18th ... that's what I think is really overrated.  I can't even think of the last place I sat in the clubhouse and paid attention to what was going on outside ... perhaps at Royal County Down last year.  (And of course, that's the tenth hole you watch, not the 18th.)

I do love the settings of clubhouses like Muirfield and Royal Lytham ... at Muirfield you put up with a long walk from the parking lot so it isn't right next to the first tee.  But I've never sat there and watched people play in at Muirfield, either.

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony;

The home hole at Bandon Trails...fantastic...........before your remodel!!!!

Just kidding,

Tom

  Tom J,

  I am glad to see we are seeing eye to eye.  In planing the Bandon trip I thought the last round was better at Trails because of the position of the clubhouse. While around the fire pit you could scream insults to the other players and also have space to fellowship.

  Anthony

[Jeff_Brauer]

Harbour Town is another great course with the 18th some distance from the clubhouse.  A good example of Tom's 9-2 theory and for the obvious reason of finishing on the water.

From a speed of play persective, a remote 18th is much better than a remote 1st. 

I can't tell you the number of times a client has asked to be able to see the end of a tournament on the 18th from the clubhouse, even though there was no chance in heck that a tournament was ever coming to the course. Or, for that matter, considering that bleachers would probably block the view if it did.

At age 12, contemplating my first round of golf, I began collecting bus fare, not realizing that courses could be routed to get 18 back to the clubhouse. I figured the course would end in a remote location and I would have to find a way back!

In general, while this group tends to celebrate that which breaks the mold, returning to the clubhouse (maybe not right below it for a view) is one of those things that makes so much sense that it isn't formula, it just is the way things are and ought to be - without some very good reason otherwise.

[Adam Clayman]

Monuments to the Ego and people's self-importance have zero do to with the golf. Plus, the opportunity for Clubhouse (penis) envy has helped the sport deteriorate into something other than a sport.

Experience, is another kettle of fish.

There's a difference between an example like TOC, and a course that takes you on a natural ride, only to end with some monstrous eyesore invading one's mind's eye on final approach. Banff Springs in it's original configuration is an example that should piss everybody off. The visual, (although not an eyesore) and a long walk uphill home.

Poppy Hills might be the best compromise with the monstrosity off to the side, complete with balcony to appease the viewers.     

[john_stiles]

For casual play,  it always seems we are adding upscores, settling bets, cleaning up, getting a drink, sitting around, and almost never watch groups finish.  Even when there is a great opportunity like at Royal Lytham, etc.

On a golf trip with more than one group,  it is often quite the opposite.  I can remember watching a group finish at Linville in October.   We had the clubhouse lead amongst 4 teams, and the last group behind us foozled the 18th even though their team was stacked with a former assistant.

What I do like at the TOC is how town folk and visitors often pause or settle around the 18th.  They ooh and ah,  and even moan.

BTW,   the 18th at Palmetto GC finishes near the clubhouse and you can sit on the porch and watch the finish.  I have often thought it would fun to just sit and watch others finish.  But seems I am always with a group that can never sit still.

[Eric Smith]

I love the pictures I've seen of the 18th at Hamilton Farm GC in New Jersey, with the old mansion situated just behind the green.

Couldn't find a better pic right now, but this one will give you an idea...


There was a two page spread photo in LINKS a few years ago that was WOW good looking.

[G Jones]

At Deal, the clubhouse is ideally located a short distance from the 18th green, on the other side of the 1st fairway, so that from the bar and lounge (both located on the top floor) you can see the approach and green on the 18th, plus you have the first hole directly beneath you. This way if a matchplay game goes to sudden death you can view the action from level with the approach shots to the 1st green. The balcony also allows you a better view and the opportunity to increase the pressure on the players
:-)


(players putting on the 18th)

[tlavin]

I think it's a nice touch, especially when tournaments are being played.  Here in Chicago, Beverly has a great, grand old clubhouse with a pub that overlooks the 18th green.  About 40 years ago, the "powers that be" decided to build a modern collection of rooms that wrapped around part of the building.  In the process, we lost a nice old screened-in porch and acquired a rather garish patio that overlooks the pool and the 18th green.  It's unsightly from the golf course, IMHO, but the view OF the golf course and the green specifically is terrific.  It's a great place to watch a bunch of nervous club golfers puke all over themselves during our annual calcutta.

Flossmoor, which has finally completed its amazing renovation, has a great clubhouse that overlooks 16, 17 and 18.  Its grill room and 19th holes have that view and they have an outdoor patio that is a splendid spot to watch play.  One of the unique features of the renovation is that the three fairways on 16, 17 and 18 actually connect, contiguously at one point.  They removed hundreds of trees from these three holes and the resulting view from the clubhouse is nothing short of spectacular.  (BTW, anybody who comes to Chicago this year should come to the south suburbs and try to play Flossmoor and the re-tooled Olympia Fields South courses.)

On the other hand, the clubhouse at Shoreacres is a five-wood away from the 18th green and it just may be the best in town.

[Carl Johnson]

Without a doubt.  At my principal club, Carolina GC in Charlotte, the bar window overlooks the 9 green (par 3), while from a grassy terrace with tables and chairs on the other side of the clubhouse you look out (down) over 18 green and fairway (par 4), 3 tee and green (par 3) and 16 tee and green (par 3).  Now, if they can just keep the foliage away from the view of 16 . . . .

[Tomas Hannell]

Whether it's the clubhouse or not, my opinion is that it's socially crucial to the enjoyment of a round of golf to have within a short walk of the 18th green a comfortable place to sit down, settle the scores, have a drink, tell lies and forget all about the bad shots of the day. In addition, the opportunity to heckle fellow competitors from said perch is a definite bonus. Last, in cases like Garden City and my (much less notorious) childhood home track that end with a par three into the bar, there is a wonderful added psychological dimension of the audience presence. So, Yes, a clubhouse should be positioned to have social impact!

[Carl Rogers]

I do believe as others have stated that it adds to the experience to be able to sit out on a patio or inside with a good view of the 18th.  At Riviera, I think the large ampitheatre into the hill creates about the same experience.

About the only critique I have of Riverfront is that the clubhouse is between the 1st tee and 18th green and not acknowledging either.  The Swim Club and tennis courts occupy the spot where the Clubhouse should be.

I do not think that Tom had much to do with the sitings of the buildings.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()