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Lester George

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Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2009, 11:24:03 AM »
BALLYHACK opens on June 26th. 

We are looking forward to all of you visiting and some of you joining as national members. 

$15,000 to join and only $2,400 per year in dues.  We will put out the "official" next week.

Lester

www.ballyhackgolfclub.com


Gary Slatter

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Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2009, 11:28:13 AM »
Castle Stuart and the new Torrance Course, both open July 13th, 2009. Both have great pedigree.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

John Burzynski

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Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2009, 12:44:27 PM »
Nicklaus' Harbor Shores in Benton Harbor, MI.   http://www.harborshoresdevelopment.org/

I'll just have to figure out how to get access to the course when it opens.  There have been several intriguing legal battles over land and surrounding parkland on lake Michigan that is affected by this course.  It will probably be a 'one and done' play for me, more out of curiosity.


John-

Is it supposed to be private?

Looking at the pictures of the construction the course looks ok...I'm guessing a $100-$150 greens fee if public?

Pat:
I believe that the course will be private / member only, and I assume a green fee in that $150 range will probably be typical for this type of development in a large housing / condo complex if the course is open to the public.   A lot of private courses and exclusive perks exist in SW Michigan due to the high number of Chicago residents who have second homes in the area as summer getaways, as the area is only 1.5-2 hours away from most of Chicago.

Three or 4 holes will run next to the lake (that is the whole legal property and environment argument with a presently existing park on the lake) and I am sure it will be a nice but overly priced course.    There have been several legal battles, but I believe based on what I have seen in the local news that the legal options are exhausted for stopping the courses development.

It really is amazing that the local summer economy is good enough that they are selling homes and able to support a new private golf course.

It's been about 4 years since I have been to Benton Harbor (I have made the trip 3 times to play in the Western Am...only qualified once, perhaps a good thing I didn't go pro  ::)  ;D   ) If I remember correctly isn't downtown Benton Harbor almost semi-industrial? 

Yes, there is a large divide between Benton Harbor and neighboring St. Joseph MI.  Racially different, economically different, and there have been problems in the past between the towns.  BH used to be the poorest city per capita in Michigan, so this golf / housing venture is supposed to provide some jobs in restaurants and the service industries; how much the jobs pay is the issue.  Honestly, BH is industrial (where companies haven't just pulled up and left town) and the downtown is mostly a ghost town of abandoned buildings, whereas St. Joe is a tourist town and has a much much higher per capita household income and does quite well for itself and its residents.

Southwest Michigan is a very big tourist mecca for Chicago residents, both for weekend vacationers and also for those who have second homes on the numerous lakes and towns in the area.   Lots of antiques, restaurants and such in every town, and some people that live in SW Michigan year round commute to Chicago for work or work from home, too.  I am sure that the economy has dulled things a bit, but there is still a lot of money out that way.

I am sure the Nicklaus course will be nice, and expensive, too.



PCCraig

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Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2009, 02:23:58 PM »
Nicklaus' Harbor Shores in Benton Harbor, MI.   http://www.harborshoresdevelopment.org/

I'll just have to figure out how to get access to the course when it opens.  There have been several intriguing legal battles over land and surrounding parkland on lake Michigan that is affected by this course.  It will probably be a 'one and done' play for me, more out of curiosity.


John-

Is it supposed to be private?

Looking at the pictures of the construction the course looks ok...I'm guessing a $100-$150 greens fee if public?

Pat:
I believe that the course will be private / member only, and I assume a green fee in that $150 range will probably be typical for this type of development in a large housing / condo complex if the course is open to the public.   A lot of private courses and exclusive perks exist in SW Michigan due to the high number of Chicago residents who have second homes in the area as summer getaways, as the area is only 1.5-2 hours away from most of Chicago.

Three or 4 holes will run next to the lake (that is the whole legal property and environment argument with a presently existing park on the lake) and I am sure it will be a nice but overly priced course.    There have been several legal battles, but I believe based on what I have seen in the local news that the legal options are exhausted for stopping the courses development.

It really is amazing that the local summer economy is good enough that they are selling homes and able to support a new private golf course.

It's been about 4 years since I have been to Benton Harbor (I have made the trip 3 times to play in the Western Am...only qualified once, perhaps a good thing I didn't go pro  ::)  ;D   ) If I remember correctly isn't downtown Benton Harbor almost semi-industrial? 

Yes, there is a large divide between Benton Harbor and neighboring St. Joseph MI.  Racially different, economically different, and there have been problems in the past between the towns.  BH used to be the poorest city per capita in Michigan, so this golf / housing venture is supposed to provide some jobs in restaurants and the service industries; how much the jobs pay is the issue.  Honestly, BH is industrial (where companies haven't just pulled up and left town) and the downtown is mostly a ghost town of abandoned buildings, whereas St. Joe is a tourist town and has a much much higher per capita household income and does quite well for itself and its residents.

Southwest Michigan is a very big tourist mecca for Chicago residents, both for weekend vacationers and also for those who have second homes on the numerous lakes and towns in the area.   Lots of antiques, restaurants and such in every town, and some people that live in SW Michigan year round commute to Chicago for work or work from home, too.  I am sure that the economy has dulled things a bit, but there is still a lot of money out that way.

I am sure the Nicklaus course will be nice, and expensive, too.




Thanks for refreshing my memory John.

I love it in SW Michigan, esp. New Buffalo (Dunes Club / Lost Dunes).
H.P.S.

John Burzynski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2009, 02:40:53 PM »
Pat:

Dune's Club is one of those courses around here that I really want to play in my lifetime, first having read about it in the book 'Dream Golf' (I didn't know it existed until I had read about it in that book).    It is one of those courses with extremely limited access / membership, but someday I am sure I will meet someone and be able to play a round there.  The pic's I have seen of the course, as well as the layout make it seem like a real treat, and even moreso because it is a nine holer on par with many 18 hole courses.

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2009, 03:01:22 PM »
SW MI coast towns are very interesting in that with all the Chicago people there they function on Chicago time and not Eastern Standard. It is nice having that extra hour down there because you can play late and still get dinner.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2009, 03:33:45 PM »
SW MI coast towns are very interesting in that with all the Chicago people there they function on Chicago time and not Eastern Standard. It is nice having that extra hour down there because you can play late and still get dinner.

I didn't know that. But wouldn't Eastern time mean you would have an advantage with daylight?
H.P.S.

John Burzynski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2009, 03:47:29 PM »
SW MI coast towns are very interesting in that with all the Chicago people there they function on Chicago time and not Eastern Standard. It is nice having that extra hour down there because you can play late and still get dinner.

I didn't know that. But wouldn't Eastern time mean you would have an advantage with daylight?
Yes, here in S. Bend we are in the far western reach of the eastern time zone (technically and scientifically we BELONG in the central zone), in summer I can play golf til 9:30 or so, and I think the latest sunset here is 9:15 or 9:20 in July.  One county over is the Central zone (that county is same longitude as New Buffalo, MI and Benton Harbor, Mi), so the same sunset would be 8:15, max playability no later than 8:30 or so.   

ClarkW

Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2009, 03:56:46 PM »
Based on the tremendous pics and very favorable comments in the most recent issue of Links, Castle Stuart looks like a big winner in my eyes.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2009, 04:20:01 PM »
Hands down...

The Dunes Course at Diamante Cabo San Lucas

One of these days...  :-\

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2009, 02:14:12 AM »
Question - CommonGround #16 - Those trees look like an effective wall in the pics, not sure how "in play" they are? Surprised no one has asked about them based on the many discussion about trees, especially on dog legs. Looks like a great affordable course though, especially with the cross bunkering and raised greens.

- Mac Dunes and CS make a trip to Machrihanish and the Dornoch area a lock, maybe even over Fife if you had to pick one (?)
- OM might make Bandon the best single golf destination in the world if it is not already

Larry_Rodgers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2009, 09:33:16 AM »
Jeff,
When will Sage Brush be opening and any comments ?

Sam Morrow

Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2009, 09:50:06 AM »
Cleburne Golf Links in Cleburne, Texas opens in late June/early July.  The course is on a nice piece of land next to Lake Pat Cleburne.

Who designed it?

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2009, 10:01:31 AM »
BALLYHACK opens on June 26th. 

We are looking forward to all of you visiting and some of you joining as national members. 

$15,000 to join and only $2,400 per year in dues.  We will put out the "official" next week.

Lester

www.ballyhackgolfclub.com



I haven't seen Ballyhack but that seems like a great value.

Andy Troeger

Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2009, 10:17:45 AM »
John,
What's your rationale with thinking Harbor Shores is going to be private? Part of the project appears to be sponsored or at least supported by the city, the local parks, and the state--I find it really hard to believe they would do that for a private club, especially considering that part of the land used to be a public park. I do expect it will be expensive, but I'd be really surprised if there's not some public access component to it.

Brian Joines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2009, 12:13:37 PM »
This is from their website:

What is the Harbor Shores Development?

Harbor Shores is a 530-acre, mixed-use development that spans parts of the cities of Benton Harbor & St. Joseph and Benton Charter Township in the lower southwest corner of Michigan. Current plans include residential units, commercial space, a Jack Nicklaus Signature  PUBLIC golf course, marinas, parks and new green space, walking and bike trails along with various other amenities and create the opportunity for up to two hotels, a conference center and indoor water park.

Here is the link: http://www.harborshoresdevelopment.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=26

I would guess the green fees will be on the high side for our area.

Mike Bowline

Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2009, 12:59:29 PM »
Question - CommonGround #16 - Those trees look like an effective wall in the pics, not sure how "in play" they are? Surprised no one has asked about them based on the many discussion about trees, especially on dog legs. Looks like a great affordable course though, especially with the cross bunkering and raised greens.

If the drive finishes on the left half of the fairway and is not long enough, the trees will definitely be in play - in fact, will block aerial access to the green. The ideal drive will be down the right side of the fairway, longer the better.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2009, 06:43:52 PM »
For me it has to be the Dormie Club.  Though Machrihanish Dunes will get me a bit excited if/when I make it back to Machrihanish.  Castle Stuart looks to be a winner as well, though I expect it will be out of my price range. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2009, 08:53:52 PM »
Looking forward to Chicago Highlands the 1st private club to open in Chicago in several years. Hope they are able to fill out their membership in this economy.             Jack

Andy Troeger

Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2009, 09:14:17 PM »
Brian,
Thanks for that--I was looking through the site but missed that line. Sounds like a resort more than anything.

Scott Macpherson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2009, 09:26:49 PM »
The 'southern-most links in the world', aka Oreti Sands or Southland Golf Club. New routing, and new holes. Opening March 9th, 2009 with Exhibition Match featuring Australiasian Tour Stars Peter Senior, Peter O'Malley, and Peter Fowler (and one other soon to be named).

Everybody's welcome.

New 4th Hole (approach)



W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2009, 12:23:42 PM »
The heck with the new courses, I'm just looking forward to seeing some stay open. 

Seriously, in Washington State I'm looking forward to Wine Valley an d revisiting Palouse Ridge.

Brian Cenci

Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #72 on: February 22, 2009, 06:19:30 PM »
Nicklaus' Harbor Shores in Benton Harbor, MI.   http://www.harborshoresdevelopment.org/

I'll just have to figure out how to get access to the course when it opens.  There have been several intriguing legal battles over land and surrounding parkland on lake Michigan that is affected by this course.  It will probably be a 'one and done' play for me, more out of curiosity.


John-

Is it supposed to be private?

Looking at the pictures of the construction the course looks ok...I'm guessing a $100-$150 greens fee if public?


Based on discussion with a local elected official with background information on the project it is going to be private but will be open for limited public play the first year or two.  Only 9 holes will be open for play this year, as there are 4 holes involved in a legal battle.  Apparently the course overlooks Lake Michigan on many holes.

-Brian

Andy Troeger

Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2009, 07:21:53 PM »
Brian C.

Not sure if you've seen all the posts on the thread about Harbor Shores as they are interspersed with other posts--Brian Joines posted a link to the website on the last page where it claims the course will be public. I imagine there's no guarantee it will stay that way, but I hope that's the plan. With the hotels it sounds more like a resort than anything.

http://www.harborshoresdevelopment.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=26

Jeff Doerr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses you're most looking forward to being opened
« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2009, 11:55:09 PM »
The heck with the new courses, I'm just looking forward to seeing some stay open. 

Seriously, in Washington State I'm looking forward to Wine Valley an d revisiting Palouse Ridge.

I'm looking forward to making this trip later this year. I spoke with the Dan Hixon and the guys at the golf show and they spoke of the expansive feeling of the place. With the reporting by Slag and my experience at Bandon Crossings, I'm really looking forward to this one.

Obviously Old Mac also!
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

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