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Steve Salmen

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Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« on: February 02, 2009, 09:41:05 PM »
In my limited reading on the subject, I understand that there used to be some very good golf courses on private estates.  Do any of them still exist?  Does anyone do this any longer?  I have heard that the Dunes Club in New Buffalo, MI was originally to be Mr. Keiser's private course for himself.  This is unconfirmed information.  Throwing this topic out there so maybe I can learn something.  Thank you.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2009, 09:47:28 PM »
Not sure about Nanea on Hawaii's Big Island that David Kidd built for Charles Schwab.  It's very exclusive, it's possible Mr. Schwab owns the whole deal.

Steve Salmen

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2009, 09:56:53 PM »
Bill,

I have read about Nanea in a few places and I think you're right.   I thought Canyata in Marshall, IL was like that but they now have a membership section on their website.

Back in the day, I think this was more prevalent on the East Coast.  Now, I think land would be prohibitively expensive.  It's more likely to happen in the Midwest or South or wherever there is an abundance of good quality land.


PCCraig

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2009, 10:04:06 PM »
I know of the Floridian, Wayne H's place down in West Palm-ish area.

There is also the Cunio Estate in Vernon Hills, IL...the course is still there in their front lawn.
H.P.S.

TEPaul

Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2009, 10:16:16 PM »
William Flynn's 1930 course on the Rockefeller's Pocantico Hills estate (perhaps once the most remarkable private estate in the nation). It's a little unusual in that it's reversible and essentially on lawn not formal fairway. But it's been there for a long long time and it probably will be for the forseeable future.

Is it "great?" No probably not unless one has a good imagination and a certain sense of fun and a sense of  the unusual for golf. That's what it was designed for, was supposed to be, and is. But it's probably not everyone's cup of tea today. It seems to be what John D. Rockefeller or John D. Jr wanted though because God only knows if the Rockefellers really wanted some "great" golf course of their own it wasn't exactly as if they couldn't have afforded it!  ;)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 10:22:25 PM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2009, 10:24:37 PM »
Pat Craig:

To me there's a difference between something like Wayne Huzienga's Floridian golf course and a real private estate course.

Joe Hancock

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2009, 10:30:06 PM »
The Johnson (Wax) Family has a very cool, old estate course in Northern Wisconsin.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2009, 11:23:36 PM »
What about Dick Wilson's Annenberg estate course in Rancho Mirage? Still around? Or Hurdzan's effort for Blixseth, also in Rancho Mirage?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 11:28:07 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Adam Russell

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2009, 11:33:06 PM »
Hey, I'd love to see either of the Flynn/Johnson estate courses on Google Maps. Anyone got an address?
The only way that I could figure they could improve upon Coca-Cola, one of life's most delightful elixirs, which studies prove will heal the sick and occasionally raise the dead, is to put rum or bourbon in it.” -Lewis Grizzard

David_Elvins

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2009, 11:41:33 PM »
The Packer family have a (reportedly) very good Greg Norman course on their farm - Ellerston.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Damon Groves

Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2009, 11:52:34 PM »
Not sure the true status of Nanea but my Aunt and Uncle have played there as well as an attorney and her husband that I know and while they have some connections I did not get the impression it was that exclusive.....They all loved the course but none of them are that architecturally savy so their kudos simply mean it was a beautiful course. Beyond that I am curious what those who have played it think.

Bob_Huntley

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2009, 12:20:06 AM »
Not sure about Nanea on Hawaii's Big Island that David Kidd built for Charles Schwab.  It's very exclusive, it's possible Mr. Schwab owns the whole deal.


Bill,

He doesn't. It is my understanding  that he shares it with George Roberts.

Bob

Will MacEwen

Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2009, 12:36:46 AM »
Paul Desmarais had Tom McBroom build Domaine Laforest on his 50,000 acre estate in the Charlevoix region of Quebec. 

http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/all-for-one/?page=3

Andrew Bertram

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2009, 12:40:08 AM »
Ellerston is a good course, Norman design.

If you are lucky to get a game there you will enjoy it. Only a group or 2 max play each day.


Peter Ferlicca

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2009, 01:09:02 AM »
What about Dick Wilson's Annenberg estate course in Rancho Mirage? Still around? Or Hurdzan's effort for Blixseth, also in Rancho Mirage?

The Annenberg estate is still going strong in Rancho Mirage, you can still drive around the pink cement fence and always wonder what it looks like inside. 

Porcupine Creek just went bankrupt and Edra had to sell it off.  Supposedly the new word in town is that it is going to become a ALL FEMALE CLUB.  The first of its kind in this town, im sure it will be a big hit around the Dinah Shore.

PCCraig

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2009, 08:51:53 AM »
Pat Craig:

To me there's a difference between something like Wayne Huzienga's Floridian golf course and a real private estate course.

What is it Paul?

According to the first post he defined an estate course as the Dunes Club in MI. The difference between the Dunes and the Floridian isn't all that great.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 09:48:15 AM by Pat Craig »
H.P.S.

PCCraig

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2009, 08:53:59 AM »
The Johnson (Wax) Family has a very cool, old estate course in Northern Wisconsin.

Joe

I played there in about 8th grade. It is a pretty cool place but I can't say I remember a ton of it.
H.P.S.

Brian Laurent

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2009, 09:50:43 AM »
How would Mel Simon's Asherwood stack up?  Designed by Steve Smyers (mentioned in his Feature Interview on this site), it sounds like an interesting course. 
"You know the two easiest jobs in the world? College basketball coach or golf course superintendent, because everybody knows how to do your job better than you do." - Roy Williams | @brianjlaurent | @OHSuperNetwork

Bob Jenkins

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2009, 12:57:35 PM »

Steve,

There is an island as few miles off Vancouver Island, just north of Victoria, called James Island. There is an 18 hole Jack Nicklaus course on the island. I have never heard of anyone having played the course. You can see it on www.livemaps.com  ie, Live Search on the aerial option. Just search Victoria BC and go straight north about 10 miles and you will see it off the coast near Sidney BC. I think It is owned by James McCaw of Seattle who with his brother sold their cell phone business in the Seattle area several years ago.

Also, further north on another Gulf Island, RTJ II designed a 9 holer for Mark Washington of the Washington Group. Short, about 2500 yards. Strictly private. There is a description of it at 

www.travelandleisure.com/tlgolf/articles/all-in-one/


along with descriptions of several other "private" golf clubs, which are totally private.

Bob Jenkins

Bob Barriger

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2009, 01:07:50 PM »
Brian, I played Simons course in September. I can't remember the number of tees and greens, but Smyers has 27 holes laid out.  It is good, not great. But the real genius comes in the last 9 holes where you play some holes backwards and find new bunkers that you do not see the first time around unless you look back down the initial hole. On the last nine, I  believe you may play across fairways to another fairway to the green.  Smyers also built Mel a par 3 course where it is said the greens are more undulating than Augusta's and as you travel Ditch Rd between 96th and 106th street in Carmel, IN you can see enormous undulations on the greens.

Agman

Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2009, 01:20:37 PM »
There were several courses that missed the final cut of the T&L Golf piece I wrote that a few of you have linked to. Smyers's Asherwood was one -- it's reversible, played from both directions. Larry Bird plays there alot. Rick Dees, the DJ, has a nine-holer  he calls Sweetbrier on his farm in Kentucky, though he doesn't like that known because the land is zoned for agricultural use.  Also Arnold Palmer built a course just outside Charlottesville -- nine holes, but from different tee boxes, each hole can be played twice from different angles and yardages -- for former Metromedia owner John Kluge's estate; he lost the property -- and the golf course -- to his wife in their divorce. Phillip Anschutes had an executive course on his estate in northeast Colorado. Jerry Rich built  Rich Harvest for himself in Illinois, but it's more in the Floridian and Sanctuary category. I seem to remember Coore and Crenshaw noodling over the potential of an estate course for the Papa John's pizza owner, I think in Kentucky, as well. I don't know if it was ever actually built.

Personally, Blixseth's course was a hoot to play, especially the long par 3 on the back with the tee box up the mountain. For the sheer marvel of putting a full 18-hole experience into a compressed piece of yard, Three Ponds Farm was pretty amazing. I didn't get up to Canada to play McBroom's design, but did have a long conversation with him. The pictures were spectacular.

js

Nick Schaan

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2009, 01:21:37 PM »
Rees Jones did one right across the street from Atlantic Golf Club that Jim Haley who built Bandon Dunes with DMK was a part of during his days with RJ. It has only a few green that are played from in several direction looks really cool.

What about the Sheep Ranch at Bandon?

Nanea is strictly golf, no estate or housing, and is exclusive in that the only way to play is witha member.

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2009, 01:48:24 PM »
Nuzzo's Wolf Point Club on the gulf coast of Texas definitely deserves a mention in this thread.

http://nuzzogolfcoursedesign.blogspot.com/


Joel_Stewart

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2009, 02:31:59 PM »
Bob is correct on Nanea, both George Roberts and Chuck Schwab built the course.   They offered memberships to about 100 of their friends so I wouldn't even consider it in this thread.  Its pretty much the same for Stock Farm which Schwab built in Montana.

The Institute in Gilroy,CA (not far from San Jose) is a championship 18 hole course that the owner (Fry's Electonics) wants to hold a PGA tournament at.  I have yet to meet a person who has played it.

Three Ponds Farm in New York was also mentioned.  Here is a photo from the listing agent.



Adam Russell

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Re: Are there any great courses on private estates today?
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2009, 08:21:22 PM »
I knew I was forgetting one. Kenny Rogers had an estate in the one caution light town of Colbert, GA. He sold the estate, but the golf course is still running. If one goes to maps live, type Colbert, then pan southeast and its not hard to find. Some decent looking bunkering of what looks like a short par-4.
The only way that I could figure they could improve upon Coca-Cola, one of life's most delightful elixirs, which studies prove will heal the sick and occasionally raise the dead, is to put rum or bourbon in it.” -Lewis Grizzard

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