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Paul Nash

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Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2009, 05:05:53 AM »
This looks like another new course opening soon near St Albans, north of London, that will be members only. It looks to have fees based on useage, which is a different concept from most clubs.

http://www.centurionclub.co.uk/index.html

Mike Sweeney

Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2009, 05:29:51 AM »
Olde Sandwich - seems like a newer one that is tough one to get on
Quaker Ridge - is also not too easy to get on from what I hear


OSGC online threesome for $625
http://www.cmarket.com/auction/item/Item.action;jsessionid=i3pViYJ7g8VzQ5wiuWcTng**.appserver4-i?browse=&_sourcePage=/item/browseList.jsp&id=65287086

Outing at Quaker
Monday, July 10

Big Brothers Big Sisters of New York City: "Ninth Annual BBBS Golf Tournament." A day of golf, lunch, dinner, awards and a live auction at Quaker Ridge Golf Course, Scarsdale. Details from 212-994-7739.

Tom Huckaby

Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2009, 10:17:57 AM »
Rich:

I had a similar experience at Muirfield and also always wondered what all the stories were about... back in 1987, two friends and I didn't just show up with a letter - we had written ahead - but we were also received very warmly and our letters of introduction (mine from the illustrious Shoreline Golf Links of Mountain View) were also never asked for.  Those were simpler times...

However, it did get tougher as years went on - mainly due to DEMAND.  Oh one can certainly get on Muirfield - but showing up in a jacket with a letter in your pocket stopped working long ago, methinks.  Their on-line booking system would attest to that.

As for groveling to get on golf courses, well.... it depends on what one means by that word.  Selling one's self-respect for fleeting pleasure is obviously intolerable.  However, selling one's marital upper hand for such courses cam be tolerated and overcome.  That is if one ever had an upper hand to begin with.   ;)

JMEvensky

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Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2009, 10:57:38 AM »
Rich:

I had a similar experience at Muirfield and also always wondered what all the stories were about... back in 1987, two friends and I didn't just show up with a letter - we had written ahead - but we were also received very warmly and our letters of introduction (mine from the illustrious Shoreline Golf Links of Mountain View) were also never asked for.  Those were simpler times...

However, it did get tougher as years went on - mainly due to DEMAND.  Oh one can certainly get on Muirfield - but showing up in a jacket with a letter in your pocket stopped working long ago, methinks.  Their on-line booking system would attest to that.

As for groveling to get on golf courses, well.... it depends on what one means by that word.  Selling one's self-respect for fleeting pleasure is obviously intolerable.  However, selling one's marital upper hand for such courses cam be tolerated and overcome.  That is if one ever had an upper hand to begin with.   ;)

Did Muirfield,or your wife,let you play the back markers?

Tom Huckaby

Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2009, 11:01:09 AM »
Rich:

I had a similar experience at Muirfield and also always wondered what all the stories were about... back in 1987, two friends and I didn't just show up with a letter - we had written ahead - but we were also received very warmly and our letters of introduction (mine from the illustrious Shoreline Golf Links of Mountain View) were also never asked for.  Those were simpler times...

However, it did get tougher as years went on - mainly due to DEMAND.  Oh one can certainly get on Muirfield - but showing up in a jacket with a letter in your pocket stopped working long ago, methinks.  Their on-line booking system would attest to that.

As for groveling to get on golf courses, well.... it depends on what one means by that word.  Selling one's self-respect for fleeting pleasure is obviously intolerable.  However, selling one's marital upper hand for such courses cam be tolerated and overcome.  That is if one ever had an upper hand to begin with.   ;)

Did Muirfield,or your wife,let you play the back markers?

In 1987, the wife was not even a twinkle in my eye.  Later she was but was at least 5000 miles from Muirfield when I was there....

However, of course a guest - just as a wise husband - does as he is told.  There are definite short tees set out for use... I did not balk at using them. 

The discussion regarding certain other courses assumed one had a choice.   ;)

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2009, 11:12:24 AM »
Rich:

I had a similar experience at Muirfield and also always wondered what all the stories were about... back in 1987, two friends and I didn't just show up with a letter - we had written ahead - but we were also received very warmly and our letters of introduction (mine from the illustrious Shoreline Golf Links of Mountain View) were also never asked for.  Those were simpler times...

However, it did get tougher as years went on - mainly due to DEMAND.  Oh one can certainly get on Muirfield - but showing up in a jacket with a letter in your pocket stopped working long ago, methinks.  Their on-line booking system would attest to that.

As for groveling to get on golf courses, well.... it depends on what one means by that word.  Selling one's self-respect for fleeting pleasure is obviously intolerable.  However, selling one's marital upper hand for such courses cam be tolerated and overcome.  That is if one ever had an upper hand to begin with.   ;)

Did Muirfield,or your wife,let you play the back markers?
Muirfield doesn't have "back markers".  There is one set of tees on any one day and that's where you play from.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Niall C

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Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2009, 11:13:15 AM »
[quote author=Rich Goodale link=topic=38456.msg799748#msg799

As for Glasgow Golf Club (Killermont) I've never had any particular desire to play there, but I'd be surprised if were that difficult to get a game.  It is the poshest of the Glasgow clubs, but that isn't saying much.  If Lloyd Cole sees this, maybe he can comment.  His father was the Steward at Killermont for several years and Lloyd knows the club and the course well.

[/quote]

Rich,

Not sure if your remarks on Glasgow GC being posh are meant to be derogatory or not but us west of Scotland folk tend to think we are more down to earth than the lot in the east who don't need any excuse to put on heirs and graces (that should get a response from any Edinburghers out there).

Yes the club is has more than its fair share of the great and the good, is a bit more expensive than other clubs in Glasgow and possibly the hardest to become a member of but as a new member (to Gailes) I can testify that the golf is good and the members are good company.

As for Killermont its not a bad wee parkland course which was laid out by Old Tom Morris some time around the turn of the century. I understand that the routing is still as Old Tom laid it out and the club policy is not to change that. Consequently there are a few interesting holes such as the first which is a driveable par 4, and the second which is a par 3 (from memory I think it is 230 yds) which has a large mature oak (?) front left of the green. The spread of the canopy of the tree is such that the hole pretty well plays as a dogleg. I wouldn't say the course is a classic but it is interesting to see an Old Tom routing that allegedly hasn't been altered, and one which doesn't have the cross-over holes which he seemed to put into his designs.

As for access, I would need to check but I was under the impression that the club allowed the odd visitor party.

Niall

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2009, 12:53:11 PM »
Fixing Mike Sweeney's broken Old Sandwich auction link:

link

All of the golf auctions from that same site:

link

I'm guessing they perhaps have this every Spring.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2009, 01:20:37 PM »
Rich:

I had a similar experience at Muirfield and also always wondered what all the stories were about... back in 1987, two friends and I didn't just show up with a letter - we had written ahead - but we were also received very warmly and our letters of introduction (mine from the illustrious Shoreline Golf Links of Mountain View) were also never asked for.  Those were simpler times...

However, it did get tougher as years went on - mainly due to DEMAND.  Oh one can certainly get on Muirfield - but showing up in a jacket with a letter in your pocket stopped working long ago, methinks.  Their on-line booking system would attest to that.

As for groveling to get on golf courses, well.... it depends on what one means by that word.  Selling one's self-respect for fleeting pleasure is obviously intolerable.  However, selling one's marital upper hand for such courses cam be tolerated and overcome.  That is if one ever had an upper hand to begin with.   ;)

Did Muirfield,or your wife,let you play the back markers?
Muirfield doesn't have "back markers".  There is one set of tees on any one day and that's where you play from.

Actually,
The day I played (with the member I had rented my flat from),
we played the tees at roughly 6700 yards(despite the fact he could scarcely make some of the carries), and the others in our group playing the two-ball behind us played the forward tees at about 6200 yards
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2009, 03:02:14 PM »
Olde Sandwich - seems like a newer one that is tough one to get on
Quaker Ridge - is also not too easy to get on from what I hear


This was true of Quaker about 5-10 years ago when it was "The best course you will never play." (Ken Venturi) 2 years ago the greens were ALL dead by July, and have since been rebuilt by a new superintendent. Quaker is also now in the midst of a long term renovation project. Give it another 5-10 years and Quaker will be back on that list.

Queenwood: I had a chance to play Queenwood in 2005, and it was the most remarkable golf experience I have ever had, and also the most expensive. After an overnight flight from NY arriving at Heathrow, I was driven straight to the course for a mid-morning weekday round. The only other people, not just on the course, but on the property, was the owner and club pro, who were about 8 holes in front of my group. Our "A-level" caddies, one of which had just come back from a British Open qualifying tournament, each took one bag each... From the driving range, to the coolers of fresh fruit, and compressed air spike cleaners, Queenwood offered the most personable round of golf I had ever played and I cant wait to go back this summer.


What about Shinnecock? I hear it takes a $500 hand shake with the caddymaster to get on... and those are fall season rates after the first weekend in September!

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #60 on: February 03, 2009, 03:14:52 PM »
I would speculate that any employee who took money to get someone on Shinnecock would be in serious jeopardy of losing his employment.  Members can send out unaccompanied guests but the fee is steep.

Paul OConnor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2009, 03:24:27 PM »
I would gladly join TEPaul and a mob of 100 GCA'ers at the gates of any of the "grovel-worthy" clubs, and storm the first tee - golf mob action!!!  Let the revolution begin!!!  Bring your clubs!!

Rich Goodale

Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2009, 03:32:42 PM »
[quote author=Rich Goodale link=topic=38456.msg799748#msg799

As for Glasgow Golf Club (Killermont) I've never had any particular desire to play there, but I'd be surprised if were that difficult to get a game.  It is the poshest of the Glasgow clubs, but that isn't saying much.  If Lloyd Cole sees this, maybe he can comment.  His father was the Steward at Killermont for several years and Lloyd knows the club and the course well.


Rich,

Not sure if your remarks on Glasgow GC being posh are meant to be derogatory or not but us west of Scotland folk tend to think we are more down to earth than the lot in the east who don't need any excuse to put on heirs and graces (that should get a response from any Edinburghers out there).

Yes the club is has more than its fair share of the great and the good, is a bit more expensive than other clubs in Glasgow and possibly the hardest to become a member of but as a new member (to Gailes) I can testify that the golf is good and the members are good company.

As for Killermont its not a bad wee parkland course which was laid out by Old Tom Morris some time around the turn of the century. I understand that the routing is still as Old Tom laid it out and the club policy is not to change that. Consequently there are a few interesting holes such as the first which is a driveable par 4, and the second which is a par 3 (from memory I think it is 230 yds) which has a large mature oak (?) front left of the green. The spread of the canopy of the tree is such that the hole pretty well plays as a dogleg. I wouldn't say the course is a classic but it is interesting to see an Old Tom routing that allegedly hasn't been altered, and one which doesn't have the cross-over holes which he seemed to put into his designs.

As for access, I would need to check but I was under the impression that the club allowed the odd visitor party.

Niall
[/quote]

No derogation meant at all, Niall, in fact au contraire.  Being married to a West of Scotland woman, I know a bit about the area, and was just trying to contrast it with Edinburgh which does have more than its share of "posh" clubs.

Rich

PS--"heirs and graces" is a great tyop.

r

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2009, 08:15:17 PM »
I would gladly join TEPaul and a mob of 100 GCA'ers at the gates of any of the "grovel-worthy" clubs, and storm the first tee - golf mob action!!!  Let the revolution begin!!!  Bring your clubs!!
Paul,  Shall we start at Gulph Mills? ;D       Jack

W.H. Cosgrove

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Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2009, 09:09:16 PM »
I've groveled so often I taken to putting knee pads on.

Augusta national
Fishers
and Seminole

are the three I'd like most to play next.

Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2009, 12:34:37 PM »
...

So someone would be willing to grovel (I wouldn't-I'm with Sean A. on this one),
but they wouldn't pay $300 + caddie?
The cost per round for the MEMBERS is probably above that for many/most.
...

Those are probably the truest words spoken on this thread.  "Groveling" might not be the best descriptor.  But in most cases, compared to membership, that $300 is aptly described as a "bargain."

JC Jones

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Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2009, 08:20:04 PM »
I agree.  You "grovel," you pay whatever necessary.  You have to expect that if the course is worth "groveling" for.

Also, it may be a once in a lifetime opportunity that you will never forget.  Not sure you can put a price on that.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Gareth Williams

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2009, 08:35:53 AM »
After playing Queenwood twice now I'm inclined to think that it is worth what it costs to play as a members guest. Sure it is a lot of money but those two days will be well remembered and I'm looking forward to my next game there in November.

Dub_ONeill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2009, 10:28:53 AM »
All his life, a most proper and dignified English Barrister widower, with a considerable income, had dreamed of playing Sandringham (one of Great Britain's truly exclusive golf courses). One day he made up his mind to chance it while he was traveling in the area.
Although he was aware that the club was very exclusive, he decided that he would ask the man behind the desk if he might play the famous course.
The club's secretary inquired, "Member ?" "No, sir."
"Guest of a member?" "No, sir."
"Sorry," the secretary said.

As he turned to leave, the lawyer spotted a slightly familiar figure seated in the lounge reading the London Times. It was Lord Willoughby Parham.
The lawyer approached Lord Parham and, bowing low, said, "I beg your pardon, your Lordship, but my name is Higginbotham of the London Solicitor -- Higginbotham and Barclay. I should like to ask your Lordship's indulgence. Might I play this beautiful course as your guest?"

His Lordship gave Higginbotham a long look, put down his paper and his pipe and asked:
"Church?" "Church of England, sir, as was my late wife."
"Education?" the elderly gentleman asked. "Eton, sir, and Oxford with a Blue and Honors.
"Sport?" "Rugby, sir, spot of tennis and number four on the crew that beat Cambridge."
"Service?" "Brigadier, sir, Coldstream Guards, Victoria Cross and Knights of the Garter."
"Campaigns?" "Dunkirk, El Alemain and Normandy, sir."
"Languages?" "Private tutor in French, fluent in German and a bit of Greek."

His Lordship considered briefly, then nodded to the club secretary and said, "Nine Holes."


tlavin

Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2009, 10:42:43 AM »
I hate to rain on Doak's rhetorical device, but I feel pretty certain that he never groveled to get on any golf course, unless it was in the thankless task of first assembling material for the Confidential Guide.  Maybe I have a problem with the word "grovel".  A common definition of that word is to humble oneself in abject or utter servility.  I wouldn't beg my way on to any golf course.  Not Augusta, not Seminole, not Pine Valley.  That's not to say that I wouldn't ask around to see if somebody knows somebody who could "get it done".  I'd rather read (and lust) about a place like San Francisco Golf Club (on my Top Ten I Need To Play list) than be a toady and beseech someone for the privilege of playing there.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2009, 10:54:49 AM »
Fisher's Island actually does 2 corporate outings per year.  Played in one a couple years back.  Not sure if they did this year with all the negative press to corporate golf. 
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2009, 11:11:10 AM »
All his life, a most proper and dignified English Barrister widower, with a considerable income, had dreamed of playing Sandringham (one of Great Britain's truly exclusive golf courses). One day he made up his mind to chance it while he was traveling in the area.
Although he was aware that the club was very exclusive, he decided that he would ask the man behind the desk if he might play the famous course.
The club's secretary inquired, "Member ?" "No, sir."
"Guest of a member?" "No, sir."
"Sorry," the secretary said.

As he turned to leave, the lawyer spotted a slightly familiar figure seated in the lounge reading the London Times. It was Lord Willoughby Parham.
The lawyer approached Lord Parham and, bowing low, said, "I beg your pardon, your Lordship, but my name is Higginbotham of the London Solicitor -- Higginbotham and Barclay. I should like to ask your Lordship's indulgence. Might I play this beautiful course as your guest?"

His Lordship gave Higginbotham a long look, put down his paper and his pipe and asked:
"Church?" "Church of England, sir, as was my late wife."
"Education?" the elderly gentleman asked. "Eton, sir, and Oxford with a Blue and Honors.
"Sport?" "Rugby, sir, spot of tennis and number four on the crew that beat Cambridge."
"Service?" "Brigadier, sir, Coldstream Guards, Victoria Cross and Knights of the Garter."
"Campaigns?" "Dunkirk, El Alemain and Normandy, sir."
"Languages?" "Private tutor in French, fluent in German and a bit of Greek."

His Lordship considered briefly, then nodded to the club secretary and said, "Nine Holes."



I love that joke, Dub, and tell it often. Though I've always wondered what course is being referenced, as I don't believe there is a course on the Sandringham estate (it's only a few miles from Brancaster, which has a reputation for blue blood, though - could be that I guess).

Adam
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

ChipRoyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #72 on: September 29, 2009, 01:08:00 PM »
I tell you what---I'll go to Yeamans if I can get a minimum of a hundred GOLFCLUBATLASERs to meet me at the beginning of the driveway into Yeamans. Then I'll just call up my friend from here who's down there on my cell phone from the beginning of the driveway and tell him we're all there and ready to play.

I know that may be a bit too much to ask of a minimum of a hundred GOLFCLUBATLASERs but whatta ya gonna do? If it doesn't work for some odd reason at least we can all go down to one of those "All you can eat" roadhouses and pig out. With that many of us they may even give us a discount on their discount! I'm pretty sure we can get free refills on the sodas until the cows come home.

I'm in - that just leaves 99 more :)

Anthony Gray

Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2009, 09:15:19 PM »
Fisher's Island actually does 2 corporate outings per year.  Played in one a couple years back.  Not sure if they did this year with all the negative press to corporate golf. 

  Jud,

  How much money for a foursome?

  Anthony


Gareth Williams

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #74 on: September 30, 2009, 04:47:20 AM »
This looks like another new course opening soon near St Albans, north of London, that will be members only. It looks to have fees based on useage, which is a different concept from most clubs.

http://www.centurionclub.co.uk/index.html



is this open yet Paul?

I thought it was slated for 2010 and I've seen some of the course and it looks very interesting.

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