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Chip Gaskins

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Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #150 on: January 30, 2009, 03:32:27 PM »
when we stepped on the first tee there was a crowd (all three groups for the day and the head pro) already standing on the members tee box.  someone in my group (all of us were single digit handicaps) asked about the Masters tees and the member chuckled and said "nah, you couldn't finish from back there".  "you can try if you want, but it isn't any fun hitting three wood in all day".  so we said no problem and played from 6500 instead of 7500 yards. 

from the members tees i hit 5 iron into #18.  i wouldn't have been able to reach the green probably with my second shot if we had played the Masters tees.

Tom Huckaby

Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #151 on: January 30, 2009, 03:35:48 PM »
when we stepped on the first tee there was a crowd (all three groups for the day and the head pro) already standing on the members tee box.  someone in my group (all of us were single digit handicaps) asked about the Masters tees and the member chuckled and said "nah, you couldn't finish from back there".  "you can try if you want, but it isn't any fun hitting three wood in all day".  so we said no problem and played from 6500 instead of 7500 yards. 

from the members tees i hit 5 iron into #18.  i wouldn't have been able to reach the green probably with my second shot if we had played the Masters tees.

Excellent.  I appreciate the first hand report.

I still would want to try the Masters tees just once.  Crowds and host willing, of course.  I want to see what they see, as JME said.

TH

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #152 on: January 30, 2009, 10:25:16 PM »
Tom Huckaby,

You and JME can see exactly what the PGA Tour Pros see as you walk from the tips up to the Members tees.   ;D

ed_getka

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Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #153 on: January 30, 2009, 11:11:20 PM »
Patrick,
    How many rounds have you played at Augusta? Seeing the pix of #5 and #14 greens earlier in the thread reminded of how obviously difficult those holes would be when I saw them many years ago. What other greens at ANGC do you think are that challenging? If you don't mind taking the time could you give a 1-10 rating to each green?
     Now that we live so much closer to Augusta I am looking forward to getting down there for a practice round again.

"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #154 on: January 31, 2009, 12:13:09 PM »
Ed Getka,

The amazing thing about ANGC greens is our inability to see and appreciate their slopes on TV. 

While that's true of the entire property, golfers may escape certain lies, but, they can't escape putting on the greens.

I don't think there's a benign green on the golf course.

Some greens are just not as severe as others.

# 1, # 11, # 12 might be the gentlist of the greens with # 8, # 17 and # 18 comprising the next tier.

# 2, # 3, # 4, # 5, # 6, # 7 and # 9 on the front nine have plenty of slope and/or contour.

On the back, # 10 and # 15 have a good deal of slope, while # 13, # 14 and # 16 have a good deal of slope and contour.

What surprised me at ANGC is the rarity of an even lie or a putt without break.

On the greens the biggest surpise was # 13.
I had always envisioned the hole as simply having a two tiered green.
I thought the top tier was a flat plateau.
It wasn't, it too had slope, sloping toward the creek.

The same for # 16.
I was under the impression that the front right tier was flat.
It's not, it's got good slope to it.
It's a frightening location to putt to.

When Tiger first won I believe the longest club he hit into a par 4 was a 7-iron.  I believe this enabled him to get closer to the ideal putting locations, given the daily position of the holes.  That's a huge advantage.
Hitting a 7-iron, with its steeper flight qualities, allows the golfer easier access to certain quadrants of the green, when compared to approaching with lower clubs, which most were hittting.

All 5, 10, 15 and 20 footers aren't equal at ANGC.

You could be 10 feet from every hole, with someone else being 20 feet from every hole, and the guy 20 feet could have a considerable advantage on every hole.

I've seen 3 foot birdie putts on # 7 go off the green because the golfer was above the hole and he tried to eliminate break by being firmer.
That's a great strategy IF you make that putt, and a very bad strategy IF you miss that putt.

There are a great number of similar situations depending on the location of the holes.

I often think of Billy Casper's strategy on the 3rd hole at WFW in the 1959 Open, where he layed up short, chipped up and made his par putts, rather than risk the surrounds and putting surface with his approach.

While I've never seen that at ANGC (the 1th hole possibly being the exception) it might be a clever strategy for amateur golfers.

# 5 and # 14 are only ferociously difficult if your ball is in the wrong place at the wrong time.  The problem is, getting your ball in the right position at the right time.  I don't believe that either hole can be lengthened, hence I believe the powers that be narrowed them in order to frustrate the latter.

While everyone focuses on the greens in the context of putting, you also have to view them in the context of recovery and chipping/pitching/running, from off the green.

This in turn influences your approach strategy, which in turn influences your strategy off the tee.

Granted, the narrowing has muted tee strategy to a degree, but, the importance, for the amateur golfer, of correct approach angles and prefered miss zones gets lost when you view The Masters since you're viewing the best golfers in the world, playing at their best.

ANGC remains a spectacular golf course for amateur and PGA Tour Pro alike, and not many golf course can make that statement.

   


JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #155 on: January 31, 2009, 12:13:46 PM »
It took you guys that long to come up with a word that partially captures my modus operandi on some of my posts ?

I informed you at the outset that Ran pays me by the number of responses and views that I produce/evoke.

Sand Hills over Augusta ?

There should be an IQ requirement before registering for this site.

On second thought, that would disqualify far too many, including that idiot savant, TEPaul.



Jesus,I feel like I pulled back the curtain on the Wizard of Oz.Next thing you'll tell me is that Tom Paul and Bob Huntley are actually 13 year old computer geeks who just make up really good stories about Fern,Dring,and South Africa.


G Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #156 on: January 31, 2009, 01:13:08 PM »
# 1, # 11, # 12 might be the gentlist of the greens with # 8, # 17 and # 18 comprising the next tier.

# 2, # 3, # 4, # 5, # 6, # 7 and # 9 on the front nine have plenty of slope and/or contour.

On the back, # 10 and # 15 have a good deal of slope, while # 13, # 14 and # 16 have a good deal of slope and contour.


17 has a giant slope/tier from back right to back left, and 3 is actually fairly flat is it not... but problem is just hitting the small, oddly shaped green.

The really tough sloping greens are 5, 6, 9, 14, 16, 17 (back of). The next hardest are 2, 4, 7, 10, 11 (if putting from the right), 13, 15 (if putting from the back). The easiest are 8 and 12 which are both very flat.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #157 on: January 31, 2009, 01:46:10 PM »
# 1, # 11, # 12 might be the gentlist of the greens with # 8, # 17 and # 18 comprising the next tier.

# 2, # 3, # 4, # 5, # 6, # 7 and # 9 on the front nine have plenty of slope and/or contour.

On the back, # 10 and # 15 have a good deal of slope, while # 13, # 14 and # 16 have a good deal of slope and contour.


17 has a giant slope/tier from back right to back left, and 3 is actually fairly flat is it not... but problem is just hitting the small, oddly shaped green.

Maybe I missed it, but there was no GIANT slope/tier from back right to back left on # 17.

# 3 is steeply sloped, from high right to low left.


The really tough sloping greens are 5, 6, 9, 14, 16, 17 (back of). The next hardest are 2, 4, 7, 10, 11 (if putting from the right), 13, 15 (if putting from the back). The easiest are 8 and 12 which are both very flat.

I think you're confusing slopes with tiers/plateaus.
Getting to the appropriate tier with your approach/recovery is critical.
Once you're on the same tier as the hole, the putting challenge is muted.
On top of # 6 the putting surface is fairly benign, if your approach has found that tier.  On # 9, being on the same tier is also vital. The same for # 5, # 14 and # 16.

On # 5 and # 14 it depends upon where the hole is located.
Near the center of the green the slopes are not that threatening.

# 11 green is benign in terms of slope/contour.



Gene Greco

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Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #158 on: January 31, 2009, 06:39:26 PM »
Jesus,I feel like I pulled back the curtain on the Wizard of Oz.Next thing you'll tell me is that Tom Paul and Bob Huntley are actually 13 year old computer geeks who just make up really good stories about Fern,Dring,and South Africa.

JM:

  No, JM, it wasn't the curtain you opened.

It was the door leading to Patrick's latrine.

The older he gets the less he is able to control himself.


      Gene

 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 04:20:13 AM by Gene Greco »
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #159 on: January 31, 2009, 11:55:03 PM »
Thanks for the feedback regarding the greens. Isn't #9 green more of an overall general slope hole from back down to front with just  a mild tier to come down off halfway? I thought the high point of #17 was back left?

Patrick,
    Excellent point about #5 green and how the green dictates where you might miss, which affects the type of approach you play which in turn affects where you are placing your tee shot. Always the sign of a truly great hole in my mind.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #160 on: February 01, 2009, 05:38:27 AM »
Ed Getka,

# 9 green reminds me of those slides at water parks, the ones with the multi-dips.

I view the green as a triple tiered green where the overall configuration is a fairly pronounced sloped green from high back to low front.

Being on the same tier as the hole is a major advantage.
Being on the tier below the tier the hole is on is OK.
Being on the tier above the tier the hole is located on presents a serious challenge for every level of golfer.


Mark Chaplin

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Re: Spending a day at Augusta
« Reply #161 on: February 01, 2009, 06:38:59 AM »
Tony Muldoon and I are playing with a friend in a weeks time who has played ANGC around 100 times, I will see if he will pen me an opinion to add into this post.
Cave Nil Vino

G Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Spending a day at Augusta New
« Reply #162 on: February 01, 2009, 07:57:32 AM »
# 1, # 11, # 12 might be the gentlist of the greens with # 8, # 17 and # 18 comprising the next tier.

# 2, # 3, # 4, # 5, # 6, # 7 and # 9 on the front nine have plenty of slope and/or contour.

On the back, # 10 and # 15 have a good deal of slope, while # 13, # 14 and # 16 have a good deal of slope and contour.


17 has a giant slope/tier from back right to back left, and 3 is actually fairly flat is it not... but problem is just hitting the small, oddly shaped green.

Maybe I missed it, but there was no GIANT slope/tier from back right to back left on # 17.




EDITED: I think you may have missed it (see below) - although having rechecked my photos and you're right about no.3. For no.6 yes if the pin is at the back and you hit that small flat area you're fine, but for the rest of the time when the pin isn't right at the back it's not an easy green.


To show that 17 is high back right to low back left:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2381066600094220439PYeGoy?vhost=good-times

From behind the 17th green. That is a big slope in most people's book. I putted straight down it to a pin at the back left so I can promise you that even on medium paced greens it would have been very hard to keep it on the green, and when you're standing at the back right it looks even more scary than this! I called it a tier/slope because the back right and back left are essentially flat areas (though small) but have a slope between them.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 08:09:49 AM by G Jones »