How many architects regularly revisit their finished courses?

[Tom_Doak]

As Carl points out, there are some of my courses I haven't seen enough of.  Riverfront's been open for ten years but I haven't been there for eight or nine.  I've only played Quail Crossing once since it opened, and Charlotte Golf Links not at all.  None of the three are exactly right on the way to anywhere I've been going the past few years.

St. Andrews Beach and Barnbougle are the two I miss the most, though.  I haven't played either since December of 2004, before they were in proper shape.  That's the down side of building courses halfway around the world -- even if you build a great one, you don't get to enjoy it that often.

[Mike_Clayton]

St Andrews Beach does not look like that anymore.The weeds are gone and hopefully it will be opened shortly.

[Scott Warren]

I was told by the superintendent and manager of The Vintage here in Australia that Greg Norman makes an annual visit to check on it, such is his fondness for the place.

I take it that is a very long way from common?

It might also help that some of his wines are grown in nearby vineyards...

[Mike_Clayton]

Scott,

Not sure about Greg but Bob Harrison often goes back to their courses.

[Mark_F]

Scott,
Not sure about Greg but Bob Harrison often goes back to their courses.

Mike,

But there's a difference to Bob Harrison going back to their courses and
A) Coming up with ideas to improve things, and
B) Said course acting upon any recommendation.

Settler's Run would be a must play if they fixed three or four things, as opposed to a pretty good but not quite course.

[Matthew Mollica]

I was told by the superintendent and manager of The Vintage here in Australia that Greg Norman makes an annual visit to check on it, such is his fondness for the place.

I take it that is a very long way from common?

It might also help that some of his wines are grown in nearby vineyards...

Scott, I think the proximity to Ellerston may have more to do with visits to The Vintage, rather than the attraction of any of the wines emanating from The Hunter. 

It's interesting you mention Norman / Harrison, as Greg Norman, for all his foibles, and his position below the top tier of world wide course architects, was perhaps the inspiration for this thread.

I once saw him play 10 holes of his Moonah course at The National around 18 months after opening. He was followed by a large contingent of members, and club staff. To my surprise, the little hints and comments Norman made on fairway mowing lines, fringe grass maintenence and the presentation of hazards were very insightful, and were subsequently  followed to the letter, much to the benefit of the course. These words have slowly faded from memory for some on the ground crew, to the detriment of the course. A further visit and like instruction would be very positive IMHO.

MM

[James Bennett]

It's interesting you mention Norman / Harrison, as Greg Norman, for all his foibles, and his position below the top tier of world wide course architects, was perhaps the inspiration for this thread.

I once saw him play 10 holes of his Moonah course at The National around 18 months after opening. He was followed by a large contingent of members, and club staff. To my surprise, the little hints and comments Norman made on fairway mowing lines, fringe grass maintenence and the presentation of hazards were very insightful, and were subsequently  followed to the letter, much to the benefit of the course. These words have slowly faded from memory for some on the ground crew, to the detriment of the course. A further visit and like instruction would be very positive IMHO.

MM

Matthew

I wonder what could have been done to 'cast in stone' those mowing lines, given the annual growth cycle of the grasses at Moonah dictating some re-delineation of fairway/rough each spring.  The couch/bermuda (is it CT-2 there?) coming out of hibernation after some cold winter mornings will inevitably lose some of its demarcation between rough and fairway.

Short of oversowing the rough with a second grass (for year-round visual delineation and perpetual instruction to the greenstaff mowers), perhaps some measurements of fairway edge from the various sprinkler heads could be taken.  The high-tech approach would be for a CADD/GPS-controlled fairway mower.  Might get some funny fairway cuts though if a war is imminent and the satellites are moving a few metres!

James B

[Niall C]

John , I'm not an attorney , but I'm fairly confident that lots of designers have had contracts that specify some performance guarantees from the ownership, going so far as to designate minimum maintenance budgets for a certain amount of years after construction. I'm sure Tom Doak and Jeff B etc . etc  would be able to comment when they see this question.

Not knowing copyright law, I can't give you a definitive answer but I'd bet a few sheckels that some contracts definitely address use of a designers name and penalties for alteration of his work product.

Archie,

McLay-Kidd recently made changes to one of the holes on the Nicklaus designed course at Gleneagles, the one which is going to be used for the Ryder Cup in 2014. It was reported locally that Nicklaus then insisted that the club not refer to the course as a Nicklaus Signature course. Presumably his contract allowed him to do this.

Niall

[John Moore II]

John , I'm not an attorney , but I'm fairly confident that lots of designers have had contracts that specify some performance guarantees from the ownership, going so far as to designate minimum maintenance budgets for a certain amount of years after construction. I'm sure Tom Doak and Jeff B etc . etc  would be able to comment when they see this question.

Not knowing copyright law, I can't give you a definitive answer but I'd bet a few sheckels that some contracts definitely address use of a designers name and penalties for alteration of his work product.

Archie,

McLay-Kidd recently made changes to one of the holes on the Nicklaus designed course at Gleneagles, the one which is going to be used for the Ryder Cup in 2014. It was reported locally that Nicklaus then insisted that the club not refer to the course as a Nicklaus Signature course. Presumably his contract allowed him to do this.

Niall

I would imagine this does not come from a contract but from 'Nicklaus Signature' and the logos that go with that name being copyrighted and trademarked material. This is part of what I had hinted at earlier, someone like Jack, who has rights to all his trademarks and as such could force a course to not use the logos or names. However, they could still say that Jack was the designer I would think, just not use the Golden Bear logos.