Kinda OT -- PGA Tour stop in Wisconsin all but gone

[Phil McDade]

The major sponsorship of the Milwaukee PGA Tour stop -- one of the few played on a true muni (Brown Deer Park) -- is pulling out after this year:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/38378049.html

Hard to imagine who they will find to replace it. Too bad, in some respects; it was a nice, little tournament, with a kind of throw-back feel to it, the way tour stops were back in the 1970s. But this has been coming for several years; the tourney has been hanging on by its fingernails for awhile.

Will go down in PGA history for at least one thing.  Any quick guesses?

[PThomas]

Tigers first pro tournament Phil...think he hit it 336 off the first tee!

[Sam Maryland]

The Charlotte event appears to also be questionable after the '09 event.

Last year Wachovia signed a new contract through 2014 but then the bank failed and was taken over by Wells Fargo.  It doesn't appear that Wells Fargo has an interest in staying involved after '09 (it's being called The Wachovia again, which makes no sense). 


The Charlotte event has a lot going for it so their chances of finding a new sponsor are certainly better than most but given the economy it's certainly not without doubt.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

"I guess, hello world"

[Keith Buntrock]

No surprise here.

I attend the event annually and remember seeing Tiger in person as a 6 year old with galleries that were 10 people deep. It was truly incredible to see that atmosphere at the GMO.

Some of my memories of the tournament.
-Pavin shooting 26 on the front nine.
-Perry skipping the British to honor his commitment to the event.
-Watching Bubba Watson swing the driver his first full year on tour.
-Me making my Golf Channel debut as they showed Tony Finau on the 16th driving it over the creek to 12 feet. I stood right behind him on the tee. He smiled at us as he pulled out driver. It was downwind probably less than 10 mph but he hits it into the jet stream.
-Last year on 14, Nick Flanagan shanked a 6 iron straight right into the trees. Scrambled for bogey and finished the tourney pretty well.

It definitely makes me want to try to Monday qualify now that I will not have the chance to do it again in my hometown.

[mike_beene]

You saw Tiger as a 6 year old?What did he shoot? Seriously,I would rather watch Brown Deer over a better field at a TPC

[Keith Buntrock]

Well I was 6 years old in late august 1996(almost 7) and Tiger shot 73 the day I saw him. He would go on to T-60. I bet he still loses sleep over finishes that low in the 1996 GMO. 

[Matthew Rose]

Would be a shame; it was the first tour event that I ever went to as well, although in those days they played it at Tuckaway CC.

[Phil McDade]

Tiger it is! (I should know better than to sneak a trivia question past the GCA folks...) I was part of the 10-deep crowds that first day when Tiger teed off (the tournament director had made a really savvy move earlier that year -- recognizing that the Milwaukee tourney fell one week after the US Amateur, he figured Tiger might realize he had no more hills to climb in the amateur world if he won a 3rd straight US Am, and offered him an early sponsor's exemption. Milwaukee was also the site of his first PGA Tour ace.)

Probably a product of the bad economy all around, the tourney's less-than-ideal spot on the Tour calendar, and declining attendance and lack of big-name draws. The Wisconsin guys -- Stricker, Kelly, Hayes, Kendall, Forsman -- will all be pretty disappointed, I'm sure.

[Dan Herrmann]

I think pro tour golf has some troubles ahead.

I attended the "Barclays" in NJ last year.  We followed the 4th to last group (Weir and Curtis) with about 15 others.  The place was virtually without specators.

Same for the LPGA and Champions tours.  The Hawaii Champions event had more folks in support functions (scoring, marshalling, etc) than those in the gallery.

[PCCraig]

This is a real bummer.

Brown Deer is a pretty darn good course, and I used to try to make it up there the week after the PGA left...the rough would be at about 5" and the course played tough!

Didn't Tiger ace the long par-3 9th/11th or something?

The first time I saw Tiger was at the 1996 Western when he was still an AM....still remember being a kid on the 16th hole at Cog Hill and wondering why everyone was wearing "Tony the Tiger" t-shirts.

[Richard Hetzel]

I guess, once it is gone, Corey Pavin will have no shot at winning on tour. This is a shame.....I am wondering how many other stops are going to have difficulty securing top sponsors?

[Sam Morrow]

I guess, once it is gone, Corey Pavin will have no shot at winning on tour. This is a shame.....I am wondering how many other stops are going to have difficulty securing top sponsors?

Don't worry about Pavin, as long as Colonial and Harbour Town are around he'll have a chance.

[RJ_Daley]

It was obviously a throw-away for the PGA when they put it opposite the British Open.  Even the state of WI stars would likely skip it if they were qualified for the Open.  I wonder if it could have survived in the old Labor Day weekend slot, which it still was when Tiger entered his first tournament there.  Early Sept, is more likely a great weather comfortable time than mid July with perhaps more appeal for on-site attendance.  Will the PGA even try to pursuade another entity to sponsor a tournament the same week as the Open for those pros not qualifying or deciding to skip it for various reasons like Kenny Perry? 

[Mike McGuire]

Last year you could walk right up to the ropes around the green to watch the last group on Sunday. It was eerie how few people were there.

Brown Deer is OK but maybe they should move it to Erin Hills or somewhere to get a little buzz.

[Phil McDade]

Mike:

I've thought the same thing, in terms of moving it to a more interesting course, but I think the current economic downturn (presuming it takes 2-3 years to get back to semi-normal) is probably dooming the Milwaukee tour stop. I mean, Harley is laying of hundreds of workers, and Harley folks actually fit the demographic of the walk-up sales the tourney depends on. The Brown Deer/muni angle I think initially was a very good idea, and it certainly helped the course. But it really is just too short nowadays, and can't be lengthened in any appreciable way (they've already "lengthened it" by lowering par to 70. Maybe it could be a par-68 Tour stop?)

I think the best bet would be one of the Kohler-specific courses, perhaps even the old original 18 at Blackwolf Run, or maybe some kind of Irish-Straits combo, with a round on each to make the cut, then the final  36 at the Straits. Or do the same at Meadows and River courses. But Kohler itself (as a company) is laying off folks, and they'd have to eat something I'm sure to give up two weeks (roughly) worth of play in pretty good prime time for golf here.

[PCCraig]

Mike:

I've thought the same thing, in terms of moving it to a more interesting course, but I think the current economic downturn (presuming it takes 2-3 years to get back to semi-normal) is probably dooming the Milwaukee tour stop. I mean, Harley is laying of hundreds of workers, and Harley folks actually fit the demographic of the walk-up sales the tourney depends on. The Brown Deer/muni angle I think initially was a very good idea, and it certainly helped the course. But it really is just too short nowadays, and can't be lengthened in any appreciable way (they've already "lengthened it" by lowering par to 70. Maybe it could be a par-68 Tour stop?)

I think the best bet would be one of the Kohler-specific courses, perhaps even the old original 18 at Blackwolf Run, or maybe some kind of Irish-Straits combo, with a round on each to make the cut, then the final  36 at the Straits. Or do the same at Meadows and River courses. But Kohler itself (as a company) is laying off folks, and they'd have to eat something I'm sure to give up two weeks (roughly) worth of play in pretty good prime time for golf here.

Probably a fantastic idea for the Kohler Company to sponsor a tour event and keep one in WI. It would/could essentially be a 4 day commercial for the resort. It would be more interesting to see it on Blackwolf though.

I think it would be smart to do it super low key though, and keep the tents and such to a minimum.

[Sam Morrow]

Could Chicago jump in and take the event?

[PCCraig]

Could Chicago jump in and take the event?

I'm not sure why they would considering the Western has a tough enough time to get spectators and it couldn't support the Nationwide Tour at The Glen Club.

I always found it amazing that for such a golf town they could never sell out Golf Tournaments in Chicago.

[Sam Morrow]

Could Chicago jump in and take the event?

I'm not sure why they would considering the Western has a tough enough time to get spectators and it couldn't support the Nationwide Tour at The Glen Club.

I always found it amazing that for such a golf town they could never sell out Golf Tournaments in Chicago.

Do the majors sell out?

[PCCraig]

Could Chicago jump in and take the event?

I'm not sure why they would considering the Western has a tough enough time to get spectators and it couldn't support the Nationwide Tour at The Glen Club.

I always found it amazing that for such a golf town they could never sell out Golf Tournaments in Chicago.

Do the majors sell out?

Sure the once-or-twice every decade major that comes to town. But the Western and the LaSalle Bank...nope. Last year the 3rd largest market in the country had no PGA, LPGA, or Senior Tour event. And even with no semi-major golf events the LaSalle Bank event was a dud in that @ a $10 weekly badge they still couldn't get more that 200 spectators a day.   

[Sam Morrow]

Could Chicago jump in and take the event?

I'm not sure why they would considering the Western has a tough enough time to get spectators and it couldn't support the Nationwide Tour at The Glen Club.

I always found it amazing that for such a golf town they could never sell out Golf Tournaments in Chicago.

Do the majors sell out?

Sure the once-or-twice every decade major that comes to town. But the Western and the LaSalle Bank...nope. Last year the 3rd largest market in the country had no PGA, LPGA, or Senior Tour event. And even with no semi-major golf events the LaSalle Bank event was a dud in that @ a $10 weekly badge they still couldn't get more that 200 spectators a day.   

I will preface this by saying I've never been to Chicago and looking at maps it seems (like Houston) to be very spread out. Is a place like Cog Hill for instance located in a place where it keeps a good deal of the population from getting out there? Back when the Shell was played at The Woodlands it scared lots of folks from the south and southwest sides away simply because of it's location. Could this at all be the case in Chicago?

[PCCraig]

Could Chicago jump in and take the event?

I'm not sure why they would considering the Western has a tough enough time to get spectators and it couldn't support the Nationwide Tour at The Glen Club.

I always found it amazing that for such a golf town they could never sell out Golf Tournaments in Chicago.

Do the majors sell out?

Sure the once-or-twice every decade major that comes to town. But the Western and the LaSalle Bank...nope. Last year the 3rd largest market in the country had no PGA, LPGA, or Senior Tour event. And even with no semi-major golf events the LaSalle Bank event was a dud in that @ a $10 weekly badge they still couldn't get more that 200 spectators a day.   

I will preface this by saying I've never been to Chicago and looking at maps it seems (like Houston) to be very spread out. Is a place like Cog Hill for instance located in a place where it keeps a good deal of the population from getting out there? Back when the Shell was played at The Woodlands it scared lots of folks from the south and southwest sides away simply because of it's location. Could this at all be the case in Chicago?

Sam-

Not so much. Cog Hill is in Lemont, which is probably 35-40 min from downtown. However it is accessable for most of the Chicago Suburbs. It's just that Chicago isn't a great PGA Tour stop due to low attedance.

[Phil McDade]

I wonder if this is an argument for holding PGA Tour stops in out-of-the-way, smaller markets, promoted to a sporting fan base that doesn't get much else. I mean, there's a lot to do in Chicago in the summer! I've heard anecdotedly that over the years, the Greater Greensboro Open always had a strong gate and pretty good fields, because that small-market community really took to the tourney, people attended year after year, and the Tour guys were treated like kings by the locals.

[RJ_Daley]

Perhaps this really isn't so much a question of the actual city location and their 'potential' golf fans being able to sustain a tournament, but more a matter of how "the Tour" markets and manages itself going forward.  If they can't draw a crowd in Chicago, well I don't see it as a lack of fan interest in golf, I see it as a lack of fan interest in "Tour Golf" as a brand. 

As for the sponsors stepping up, and the right venue being picked for the tournament, well that is obviously going to be completely dependant on the way the economy unwinds further worse - or starts to recover.  Watching a few of Arnie's comments last week, I think possibly the older players and those that have memories of golf pre-70s, might have some inkling of what is coming and what needs to be done by players as their responsibility to promote and work hard for the tour's health.  But, I tend to think that the active younger players have no clue, and no motivation (yet) to really dig in and work very hard on their own individual efforts and assumed responsibility to promote all that they can manage to attempt to maintain their sports relavance in comparison to the public's perceptions of the merits of the sport of golf and need for diversion of a stunned and economically depressed population. 

I think that the current perception of those that follow golf may be that "Tour Golf" is purse oriented.  But a significant number of people only get charged up when the sport is 'competitive' oriented, with the example of the competition of the Ryder cup (non-purse in theory) capturing the most enthusiasm.  If the tour can't keep the competition interest higher, with interesting venues and formats, I think they are in for a real and prolonged slide. 

The other thing about a venue, like the question of survivability of Milwaukee's toon-a-mint is the atmosphere of the venue in its associated or ancillary activities and image.  As I understand it, the Milwaukee stop for the players and more importantly their supporting cast of family and caddies and their caddies families has been a venue where they say the atmosphere is something of a mid-season picnic or reunione and there they let their hair down a bit.  Brown Deer Park is a wonderful place for that.  And, Milwaukee is a great city for that.