[Patrick_Mucci]

In my opinion no club can achieve true greatness without a vision and it's own distinctives.

Agreed ...... unless it inherited great bone structure.

I also think that vision rarely ever comes from many sources, but rather from one visionary who is the kind of gifted leader that people trust.

That's difficult to do in a "democratic" environment where every club member has an equal vote

Some clubs are host to PGA and USGA events. Those clubs are able to derive vision from those events.

But what about other clubs?

They probably haven't been disfigured yet 

What do you guys think?

[Bradley Anderson]

This is a great collection of thoughts on the subject. And even Patrick has contributed. I really like where this is going.

Please more!

[Steve Lang]

  I wonder if Ken Venturi had won that Masters as an Amatuer, and taken over, would he have altered the course as we've seen it occur..

getting some rough, ne length, etc

[Tom_Doak]

Bradley:

When we go to interview for consulting work, often at renowned clubs, I have taken to asking the club if they have a mission statement they are working from.

Many do not.  Some so lack direction that they seem to be looking to an architect to provide a direction!  And many architects are not shy about doing so!  They blithely assume that all clubs have the same goals -- to be long enough to challenge scratch players, to provide barrier-free tees for lesser players, to be green from wall to wall, ad nauseaum.

I would not be so presumptuous, only because I know if I run in the opposite direction to the ethos of the club, my work will ultimately fail, and somebody else will erase it all in a few years' time (which is usually how they've gotten to the point to call me).  And then what was the point of all that?

My favorite two clubs in this regard were Garden City and Somerset Hills.

At Garden City, twenty years ago, the ethos of the club was quite clear -- they all wore it on their sleeves.  The green chairman reported to me that one architect (who shall remain nameless, but is sometimes lauded here) had asked HIM (the green chairman) what they wanted to do with the course?  He let me know in no uncertain terms that they wanted to know what I thought was best, and not the other way around -- but that they would take my advice under counsel and might not always agree with it.

At Somerset Hills, I asked about a mission statement, and they had none.  So they spent a full year discussing it among the membership.  When they were done, I was relieved to find that we were on the same page and could move forward.

[Damon Groves]

Bradley:

When we go to interview for consulting work, often at renowned clubs, I have taken to asking the club if they have a mission statement they are working from.

Many do not.  Some so lack direction that they seem to be looking to an architect to provide a direction!  And many architects are not shy about doing so!  They blithely assume that all clubs have the same goals -- to be long enough to challenge scratch players, to provide barrier-free tees for lesser players, to be green from wall to wall, ad nauseaum.

I would not be so presumptuous, only because I know if I run in the opposite direction to the ethos of the club, my work will ultimately fail, and somebody else will erase it all in a few years' time (which is usually how they've gotten to the point to call me).  And then what was the point of all that?

My favorite two clubs in this regard were Garden City and Somerset Hills.

At Garden City, twenty years ago, the ethos of the club was quite clear -- they all wore it on their sleeves.  The green chairman reported to me that one architect (who shall remain nameless, but is sometimes lauded here) had asked HIM (the green chairman) what they wanted to do with the course?  He let me know in no uncertain terms that they wanted to know what I thought was best, and not the other way around -- but that they would take my advice under counsel and might not always agree with it.

At Somerset Hills, I asked about a mission statement, and they had none.  So they spent a full year discussing it among the membership.  When they were done, I was relieved to find that we were on the same page and could move forward.

Tom - Your point is well made. It would seem too many clubs or property owners are simply looking for a big name architect to give them a course and that the course will give them their vision. Sadly, there are enough architects, who will remain nameless, that are more than happy to go with that. I think it speaks a lot of your work and architects similar to you that you go a step further. It shows in the finished product and as you note, helps with the club in maintaining their new course.

[Bradley Anderson]

Tom,

Thanks for weighing in on this subject. I'm not sure if I would answer this question on a public forum if I was an architect, but I'm going to throw it out there for architects and builders to answer:

We haven't really defined "vision" explicitly here, but using your own ideas on what that is, can you provide examples of clubs, by name, that have impressed you most as having kept a vision, through the years?

[Forrest Richardson]

Again — A golf course architect can be an excellent resource to help clubs formulate a vision. Nothing says it has to be "their vision". That is simply an assumption.

A brilliant writer, who began his career in advertising, once explained the great mystery of what is really going on when someone says, "We know what we want to say, we just don't know how to say it...."

To that statement, this writer would say, "Fine, what language is it in now? French? German? Swahili? The reason I ask, is that you really don't need me if you truly know what you want to say, we'll just get a translator and it will be much quicker and less costly."

Of course, the sarcasm (which I do not suggest) was aimed at precisely the point: The people had no clue what they wanted to say, that is why a professional writer was sitting in their offices to help them figure it out.

Clubs can be in the same pickle. They may think they know the vision...but it often helps to have someone help them figure it out. Extracting information is, in itself, an art form. It does not mean that the heart of the vision does not come from within, but it can be so much richer when it is molded by an individual who can bring all the parts together.

[Bradley Anderson]

Forrest,

Thank you for those very sensible comments.

[Tom_Doak]

I agree with Forrest in that most clubs require some help in identifying their vision. 

Cherry Hills was a great example ... their two stated goals were to restore Flynn's work and to remain relevant for national championships, which were two things at odds with one another.  Eventually, I got them to amend it to "preserving" Flynn's work as much as possible while remaining relevant for national championships ... it seems like semantics, but it makes the priorities much more clear.

When renovation / restoration projects fail, the main reason is that the members did not share the same vision ... the architect may have tried to help clarify it but often he is just talking to the green chairman or a small committee who do not know (or do not care) about the pulse of the club as a whole.

This is also possible for new work.  I've had a few occasions where my clients were not strong individuals, but a group or a company, and it was hard to peg exactly what they wanted or to whom I should really answer.  Generally, those projects have turned out less well, because the vision was less clear.

[Mark_Fine]

Tom,
Cherry Hills is a good example, however, we should remind everyone that it took almost four years to get the club to add the part about "restoring Flynn's work" to their goals.  For the longest time the primary goal was to "remain relavant for national championships" which is in part why the course evolved the way it did.  I think you would agree that most architects don't have that kind of patience or are willing to spend that much time to help a club for that long to finally reach their vision.  Many might just stick with the current thinking and move ahead quickly with construction work.  It would be a lot easier that way and in the case of Cherry Hills, the project would have been completed years ago but the Flynn atributes likely lost.  And sometimes it even takes a second opinion to validate the right thing to do!

I'm meeting Eric out there tomorrow (unless we get snowed out).  We just spoke and there is 1 1/2 inches on the ground.  We'll see.
Mark

[MHiserman]

Very interesting topic and discussion.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I am involved with a number of English members' clubs which have reached or will shortly reach their centenaries. In each case, were the founding fathers to return today, they would immediately recognise the ethos of the club. Detail will have changed - it might not even be located in the same place - but the structure and feel of the club will be the same. Largely that is to do with the way the club was set up in the first place and particularly the constitution which governs who runs the club, how and why.

[Bradley Anderson]

I am involved with a number of English members' clubs which have reached or will shortly reach their centenaries. In each case, were the founding fathers to return today, they would immediately recognise the ethos of the club. Detail will have changed - it might not even be located in the same place - but the structure and feel of the club will be the same. Largely that is to do with the way the club was set up in the first place and particularly the constitution which governs who runs the club, how and why.

As they say: "well begun is half done".

[Bradley Anderson]

Please help this develope further.

Let me bump the topic with this question: are member surveys helpful in developing a vision?

[JMEvensky]

Please help this develope further.

Let me bump the topic with this question: are member surveys helpful in developing a vision?

IMO,surveys result in the exact opposite of a vision.Surveys are what allow people to say that Olive Garden is an Italian restaurant.

There really can't be a "collective-derived" vision in a club.Everybody just raises the level of importance for their own pet idea.At the end,you have several hundred visions.

There's just no way to do it without allowing a very small number of members to have complete hegemony over the process.You just have to find a couple of guys who can/will put the club's interests above everything else and trust them to do the right thing.

[MHiserman]

Does it seem that the Clubs that seem to have the most clear direction have had very strong, somewhat simple and clear concepts that are developed early in the process?  I do know of a few examples of this through my research. 

How has your Club benefited by leadership or counsel to continue the vision of the founders of a club?

[Robin Doodson]

Please help this develope further.

Let me bump the topic with this question: are member surveys helpful in developing a vision?

Absolutely useless. General membership wouldn't have a clue how to improve  a golf course or club.

There is only one way. Employ a professional golf course architect to draw you up a masterplan and make sure that you follow it to the letter.

Our club has spent the last 10 years going from one ill conceived masterplan to another and they have lasted exactly as long as the incumbent greens chairman. Thankfully our present incumbent has had the sense to seek outside help and has paid for the services of The Palmer Corporation to come and put together a full masterplan for us.

We have not given the architect any brief as such and are willing to put our golf course in his hands. There is nothing more valuable than a fresh pair of eyes giving an unbiased view on your course and club.

robin

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bradley,

In order to perpetuate the club's vison or ethos over time, the admissions committee is critical.

Financial stress causes many clubs to open their doors to a greater number of candidates.  If that process continues for a few years, the culture of the club gets changed, and with it, the vision/ethos.

ie, If a club of 250 members usually takes in 6-8 members a year, they're absorbed into the culture of the club.  But, if, due to financial stress, the club takes in 25 members a year, within five years the culture of the club will change, and with it, most likely its vision/ethos.

This is another reason why clubs shouldn't incur debt or embark upon projects that do nothing but "keep up with the Jones's"

[Roger Wolfe]

In my opinion no club can achieve true greatness without a vision and it's own distinctives.

I also think that vision rarely ever comes from many sources, but rather from one visionary who is the kind of gifted leader that people trust.

Some clubs are host to PGA and USGA events. Those clubs are able to derive vision from those events. But what about other clubs?

What do you guys think?

The CMAA believes every club needs a strategic plan in order to keep things moving in the right direction and to keep rogue boards or presidents from doing anything crazy.  Attached is an excerpt from a text used in one of CMAA's BMI classes.  If anyone wants the full pdf... just let me know.

[Carl Johnson]

Please help this develope further.

Let me bump the topic with this question: are member surveys helpful in developing a vision?

IMO,surveys result in the exact opposite of a vision.  Surveys are what allow people to say that Olive Garden is an Italian restaurant.

There really can't be a "collective-derived" vision in a club.  Everybody just raises the level of importance for their own pet idea.  At the end,you have several hundred visions.

There's just no way to do it without allowing a very small number of members to have complete hegemony over the process.You just have to find a couple of guys who can/will put the club's interests above everything else and trust them to do the right thing.

As a club member: I disagree.  There are several good reasons to have a survey.  First, a well-constructed survey can give the Board a good idea of whether their direction suits the membership, or, if not, how they can serve the membership better.  Second, and just as important, it's one of the things that is necessary to involve the members, that is, to make them feel like it is their own club, not someone else's that they've been allowed to join.  Of course, if the dictator isn't going to pay attention to the answers to a survey question, then the question should not be asked.

Sure, everyone has his own ideas about how the club could suit him (and family) better, ranging from the very general to very specific.   Obviously there will be differences.  However, that does not mean the Board should not solicit the opinions of members.  It should, and then thoughtfully consider those opinions.  If I were on a Board, I would want to know what the membership (those that cared to answer the survey) thought about the Club.  As a Board member, I know I cannot please everyone.  Some golfers are going to want ball washers, and others are going to believe they are too expensive to maintain, clutter up the course, and detract from the essence of "pure golf."  Still, I'd like to know how many are on each side, and how many really don't give a hoot.

Now, let's get back to the original question: "Let me bump the topic with this question: are member surveys helpful in developing a vision?"  My response to this point has assumed a survey that asks about very specific issues.  The answer -- "There really can't be a "collective-derived" vision in a club.  Everybody just raises the level of importance for their own pet idea.  At the end,you have several hundred visions." -- seems to me directed more to surveys that ask about specifics, which generate "pet idea" responses.

If you're really looking for visions in a survey, then you've got to be really careful in phrasing your questions so that your responses will, more often than not, be on point to the vision issue, which I understand means looking at the club from a very broad perspective.

My club has done surveys, but none that I recall ask questions dealing with the vision.  The questions are more like, "How do you rate the dining room?"  "Are the servers courteous?" Etc.  In fact, in the last survey, several years ago, there was a section for general comments.  In that section I specifically commented that I didn't understand the club vision, I couldn't see one.  In fact, I'd never seen anyone talk about a vision, and I pointed out that we needed one.  It was pointed out to me that we had a mission statement, e.g., "provide exceptional service to the membership" (or the like), which to me is totally meaningless as either a vision or as a mission.  I mean, would one expect the mission statement to say: "Provide 'so, so' service to the membership"?

In conclusion, as a club member, I'd like to be asked for my "vision" for the club in the very broadest sense.  Then, I'd expect the Board to take my response and the responses of all the other members that care to give them, and see what the can learn from those responses and how they can synthesize that information to futher the success of the club.  Is it going to be easy to do that?  Of course not.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Surveys are an indication that leadership is out of touch with the membership.

In addition, responders tend to be the vocal sector of the membership, mostly unhappy with the status quo.  Non-responders tend to be satisfied with the status quo.  Hence, survey's don't necessarily represent the true feelings of the entire membership.

[Roger Wolfe]

Surveys are an indication that leadership is out of touch with the membership.

In addition, responders tend to be the vocal sector of the membership, mostly unhappy with the status quo.  Non-responders tend to be satisfied with the status quo.  Hence, survey's don't necessarily represent the true feelings of the entire membership.

The board is, in most cases, representative of the membership.  Our membership is very young with an average of 43 so the board elections follow suit.  For an established club, Patrick is right on.  However, when your club goes through dramatic change in a short period of time (turning over 50% of its members in 4 years), a specific survey addressing specific topics can be valuable in terms of the internal functions of the board.  Assuming new members who paid a much higher initiation fee want, on top of a renovated golf course, a new clubhouse is a dangerous thing.

As our service levels have increased and FB has gotten better a lot of older members think we are becoming more like a country club instead of becoming a pure golf club.  However, the definition of a golf club is very different for the 40 year old then a 60 year old retiree.  Both don't care about debutante balls, weddings, fitness centers and tennis.  However, the retiree is primarily working on his game and eating turkey sandwiches.  The youngster wants somewhere to eat with his family... perhaps a pool for his family to enjoy... and, most of all, somewhere to take clients and guests for not only golf, but to enjoy drinks and food before and after.  That is HIS definition of a golf club.  Its tough, and one of our surveys really helped us figure out the right path to take.  The guest fees push both members dues lower while the increased staff for carts, bags and FB push them back up until you reach a status quo where both guys are happy.

The most important thing on a survey, however, is to quantify the questions.  These are the surveys that work.  Here is an example of two questions about the same issue that might result in "strongly agree" or "strongly disagree" from the same person.

1a.  Our clubhouse is small, dated and has been tolerated by the membership for decades.  By using funds generated through assessment, would you like to see construction begin on a new clubhouse in the next 5 years?

1b.  Our clubhouse is quaint, classic and has served the members adequately for generations.  Are you willing to be assessed $10,000 to see construction begin on a new clubhouse in the next 5 years?

2a.  Currently we do not sod or overseed our bermudagrass driving range.  Since we hit off the grass all winter, it deteriorates and we must hit off the mats from mid April to mid May while the grass recovers.  Would you like to hit off grass all year?

2b.  Currently we do not sod or overseed our bermudagrass driving range.  Since we hit off the grass all winter, it deteriorates and we must hit off the mats from mid April to mid May while the grass recovers.  For an extra $2 in dues per month, would you like to hit off green grass all year?

Surveys can be useless without the right wording and quantification of each question.  An established club should have figured out its mission and membership a long time ago.  Its tough when your club has transitioned and the right kind of survey question can be very helpful.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The board is, in most cases, representative of the membership.  Our membership is very young with an average of 43 so the board elections follow suit.  For an established club, Patrick is right on.  However, when your club goes through dramatic change in a short period of time (turning over 50% of its members in 4 years), a specific survey addressing specific topics can be valuable in terms of the internal functions of the board.  Assuming new members who paid a much higher initiation fee want, on top of a renovated golf course, a new clubhouse is a dangerous thing.

Roger,

Here's what I don't understand.

I would conclude that new members JOINED your club because they LIKED it just the way it was when they were considering joining.

So, once they joined it, why ask what they want to change about it ?

As our service levels have increased and FB has gotten better a lot of older members think we are becoming more like a country club instead of becoming a pure golf club.  However, the definition of a golf club is very different for the 40 year old then a 60 year old retiree.  Both don't care about debutante balls, weddings, fitness centers and tennis.  However, the retiree is primarily working on his game and eating turkey sandwiches.  The youngster wants somewhere to eat with his family... perhaps a pool for his family to enjoy... and, most of all, somewhere to take clients and guests for not only golf, but to enjoy drinks and food before and after.  That is HIS definition of a golf club.  Its tough, and one of our surveys really helped us figure out the right path to take.  The guest fees push both members dues lower while the increased staff for carts, bags and FB push them back up until you reach a status quo where both guys are happy.

If what you say is true, why would the younger people want to join the club in the first place ?

They had to make the determination that it was desirable, before they joined.  They had to conclude that this was the type of club they would like to belong to.  The type of club that made paying an initiation and dues a prudent choice.  So, if they liked the club so much just the way it was, just before they joined it, why the urgency and need to change it ?

I suspect that taking in so many members in such a short time might have changed the culture of the club.

The most important thing on a survey, however, is to quantify the questions.  These are the surveys that work.  Here is an example of two questions about the same issue that might result in "strongly agree" or "strongly disagree" from the same person.

1a.  Our clubhouse is small, dated and has been tolerated by the membership for decades.  By using funds generated through assessment, would you like to see construction begin on a new clubhouse in the next 5 years?

STOP.

Those new members evidently liked the club and the old clubhouse so much that they made the decision to join the club just the way it was.

1b.  Our clubhouse is quaint, classic and has served the members adequately for generations.  Are you willing to be assessed $10,000 to see construction begin on a new clubhouse in the next 5 years?

Again, they liked the old, quaint, classic clubhouse so much that they decided to join.  Why change something that was apparently attractive to prospective members ?

2a.  Currently we do not sod or overseed our bermudagrass driving range.  Since we hit off the grass all winter, it deteriorates and we must hit off the mats from mid April to mid May while the grass recovers.  Would you like to hit off grass all year?

Are you telling me that you and the Board don't know the answer to that question ?  The answer seems obvious to me.  Sod or reseed the driving range on a needs basis.  It doesn't cost that much, certainly not $ 10,000 per member.

2b.  Currently we do not sod or overseed our bermudagrass driving range.  Since we hit off the grass all winter, it deteriorates and we must hit off the mats from mid April to mid May while the grass recovers.  For an extra $2 in dues per month, would you like to hit off green grass all year?

That has to be one of the most inane questions I've seen in some time.
It sounds like the club just might be a rudderless ship, lacking leadership.

Fix the driving range, increase the monthly charges by $ 5 a month and don't ask any questions.  A small percentage will complain, but, if the range is improved, the complaints will disipate in a short time and the club will put forth a more functional and attractive range facility.

Surveys can be useless without the right wording and quantification of each question.  An established club should have figured out its mission and membership a long time ago.  Its tough when your club has transitioned and the right kind of survey question can be very helpful.

I'm sorry but,  I can't agree with you on that issue.

If the club has been successful in attracting a new cadre of members (53 % ) over the last four (4) years, those new members must have found the club, as it existed prior to them joining, very attractive.  So, what's the rush to change what attracted them in the first place ?

[Roger Wolfe]

The board is, in most cases, representative of the membership.  Our membership is very young with an average of 43 so the board elections follow suit.  For an established club, Patrick is right on.  However, when your club goes through dramatic change in a short period of time (turning over 50% of its members in 4 years), a specific survey addressing specific topics can be valuable in terms of the internal functions of the board.  Assuming new members who paid a much higher initiation fee want, on top of a renovated golf course, a new clubhouse is a dangerous thing.

Roger,

Here's what I don't understand.

I would conclude that new members JOINED your club because they LIKED it just the way it was when they were considering joining.

So, once they joined it, why ask what they want to change about it ?

As our service levels have increased and FB has gotten better a lot of older members think we are becoming more like a country club instead of becoming a pure golf club.  However, the definition of a golf club is very different for the 40 year old then a 60 year old retiree.  Both don't care about debutante balls, weddings, fitness centers and tennis.  However, the retiree is primarily working on his game and eating turkey sandwiches.  The youngster wants somewhere to eat with his family... perhaps a pool for his family to enjoy... and, most of all, somewhere to take clients and guests for not only golf, but to enjoy drinks and food before and after.  That is HIS definition of a golf club.  Its tough, and one of our surveys really helped us figure out the right path to take.  The guest fees push both members dues lower while the increased staff for carts, bags and FB push them back up until you reach a status quo where both guys are happy.

If what you say is true, why would the younger people want to join the club in the first place ?

They had to make the determination that it was desirable, before they joined.  They had to conclude that this was the type of club they would like to belong to.  The type of club that made paying an initiation and dues a prudent choice.  So, if they liked the club so much just the way it was, just before they joined it, why the urgency and need to change it ?

I suspect that taking in so many members in such a short time might have changed the culture of the club.

The most important thing on a survey, however, is to quantify the questions.  These are the surveys that work.  Here is an example of two questions about the same issue that might result in "strongly agree" or "strongly disagree" from the same person.

1a.  Our clubhouse is small, dated and has been tolerated by the membership for decades.  By using funds generated through assessment, would you like to see construction begin on a new clubhouse in the next 5 years?

STOP.

Those new members evidently liked the club and the old clubhouse so much that they made the decision to join the club just the way it was.

1b.  Our clubhouse is quaint, classic and has served the members adequately for generations.  Are you willing to be assessed $10,000 to see construction begin on a new clubhouse in the next 5 years?[/b]

Again, they liked the old, quaint, classic clubhouse so much that they decided to join.  Why change something that was apparently attractive to prospective members ?[/b]

2a.  Currently we do not sod or overseed our bermudagrass driving range.  Since we hit off the grass all winter, it deteriorates and we must hit off the mats from mid April to mid May while the grass recovers.  Would you like to hit off grass all year?

Are you telling me that you and the Board don't know the answer to that question ?  The answer seems obvious to me.  Sod or reseed the driving range on a needs basis.  It doesn't cost that much, certainly not $ 10,000 per member.

2b.  Currently we do not sod or overseed our bermudagrass driving range.  Since we hit off the grass all winter, it deteriorates and we must hit off the mats from mid April to mid May while the grass recovers.  For an extra $2 in dues per month, would you like to hit off green grass all year?

That has to be one of the most inane questions I've seen in some time.
It sounds like the club just might be a rudderless ship, lacking leadership.

Fix the driving range, increase the monthly charges by $ 5 a month and don't ask any questions.  A small percentage will complain, but, if the range is improved, the complaints will disipate in a short time and the club will put forth a more functional and attractive range facility.

Surveys can be useless without the right wording and quantification of each question.  An established club should have figured out its mission and membership a long time ago.  Its tough when your club has transitioned and the right kind of survey question can be very helpful.

I'm sorry but,  I can't agree with you on that issue.

If the club has been successful in attracting a new cadre of members (53 % ) over the last four (4) years, those new members must have found the club, as it existed prior to them joining, very attractive.  So, what's the rush to change what attracted them in the first place ?

The one critical assumption you are making is that the club could have continued the way it was without a serious capital infusion.  40 year old irrigation system, poolhouse falling down, clubhouse interior falling down, unsafe and unhealthy kitchen, no practice facility.  $10 million over four years to get it presentable.

The 260 who joined were well aware of the changes being made and WOULD NOT HAVE JOINED if the changes were not going to be made.

As to the survey questions... I am on your side over the clubhouse issue but a survey would cement it once and for all.  The 2nd one, however, is valid.  If folks are complaining about the range... lets really find out just how many are complaining and make sure its not only the vocal ones causing the fuss.  Then lets find out if its worth the extra money.

I don't understand your $10,000 "inance" comment and thanks so much for the advice on how to fix the range.  I don't know what we would have done without your insight.  And, by the way, its only $2 a month... not $5 since you seem to be the expert.

Sounds to me like you would just make any change you saw fit and call it "leadership."  Those $2 per month add up pretty quick and you can do a member survey these days in about five minutes with the web.  Why are you so afraid of them?

[Patrick_Mucci]

The one critical assumption you are making is that the club could have continued the way it was without a serious capital infusion.  40 year old irrigation system, poolhouse falling down, clubhouse interior falling down, unsafe and unhealthy kitchen, no practice facility.  $10 million over four years to get it presentable.

Letting the club get run down like that sounds like the leadership was AWOL over the years.

The 260 who joined were well aware of the changes being made and WOULD NOT HAVE JOINED if the changes were not going to be made.


You didn't say that in your initial posts.

As to the survey questions... I am on your side over the clubhouse issue but a survey would cement it once and for all. 

The 2nd one, however, is valid.  If folks are complaining about the range... lets really find out just how many are complaining and make sure its not only the vocal ones causing the fuss.  Then lets find out if its worth the extra money.

I don't think you need a survey to determine if your range is adequately maintained.  If, as you say, it becomes unplayable, then certainly, it needs tending to.

I don't understand your $10,000 "inance" comment and thanks so much for the advice on how to fix the range.  I don't know what we would have done without your insight.  And, by the way, its only $2 a month... not $5 since you seem to be the expert.

I was aware that it was $ 2, however, most projects are underestimated in order to get them to pass a membership vote.  I threw in some extra money for new balls and to make the range a first class operation.

$ 2 a member per month equals about $ 12,000 for the year.

With a club with 500 members, that's a fraction of the budget and probably about 1 % of most green budgets in the greater Met area.

Why nickel and dime the membership with a $ 2/mo charge ?
Either improve the range with NO charge to the members, or charge $ 5 and make a really great range.

Sounds to me like you would just make any change you saw fit and call it "leadership." 

On this issue, absolutely.
Between postage, printing and labor it'll probably cost you a good deal of the $ 2/mo you want to charge.  It's a de minimus item, not worthy of the effort.

Those $2 per month add up pretty quick and you can do a member survey these days in about five minutes with the web. 

$ 2 per month can only add up at the rate of $ 2 each month, hardly a pretty quick process, totaling $ 24 a year.
$ 24 a year for a great range is a bargain for a club that operates most of the year with a membership of 500 not counting family members.

Why are you so afraid of them?


Because they're not accurate.
They don't reflect the feelings of every member, they only reflect the structured opinions of those who respond, and, the way they're phrased often predisposes the membership to set answers.

Having to take a survey indicates that the club's leadership is out of touch with the membership.

And, if you took in 260 members over four years and didn't have a clue as to what they were looking for in a club, the admissions committee just recruited bodies, not members who fit the culture of the club.

To let the club run down to the level you indicated during the prosperous 10 to 15 years we had previously enjoyed indicates that leadership failed the membership during those years.

That you were able to get 260 members to join in the last four years is a great accomplishment.

But, why would so many people join a club that was allowed to run down ?

Most prospective members examine the financial side of the equation, initiation, dues and assessments.  If 260 members joined in the last four years they must have liked the club the way it was.  If not, if they joined knowing that it would cost an additional $ 10,000 assessment once they joined, there had to be some lure.

Something doesn't seem right.

Your club's run down, yet 260 new members join in the last four years, knowing that an additional $ 10,000 will be assessed once they join, and you have to take a survey to see if they can tolerate a $ 2 per month charge for an improved range.

Does anybody else sense something is awry ?

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