"What is it then, exactly, that we Americans are doing on a golf course? "

[Kyle Harris]

Melvyn,

I'm, of course, picking on you - but I find that the vast majority of the time I'm playing 18 holes at or near 3 hours.

I think the pace of play of American Golf has become a slight exercise in hyperbole.

[Tom Huckaby]

Melvyn,

I'm, of course, picking on you - but I find that the vast majority of the time I'm playing 18 holes at or near 3 hours.

I think the pace of play of American Golf has become a slight exercise in hyperbole.

Six hours is hyperbole.

But so is getting the vast majority of one's rounds in in at or near three hours.  It doesn't happen at crowded public courses, that's for sure.

And I have to believe crowded public courses comprises a large part of American golf.

So our game is what it is... just don't tell me I don't understand the spirit of the game because I choose to play instead of going home whining.

That of course was not directed at you, Kyle.

 

[Melvyn Morrow]

Tom

Bitching, I’m not bitching, as for YOUR Game, I will repeat again that I play as I was taught to play at the home of golf by Old Tom’s great grandson, way back in the early 1960’s.  I have not changed nor looked for an easy ride or ways to help my score, I have continued in the traditional way I was taught.

It maybe surprising to most but I can shout out loud that I still honour the game and my family by continuing to play in the time honoured way. It’s not my game it’s the way golf has been played at the Home of Golf.

This is not a lecture, but a simple point of fact, I can’t claim its MY Game but I can claim to play it in the form it was taught to me at St Andrews. Golf is about the golfer and the course – distance aids in all their forms are artificial aids, they don’t enter into my game because I see them for what they  - not needed help.

No bitching, no assumptions because I do not need to – I just play the game as I said in the time honoured way.  You can’t, do not want to or just do it your way  - then fine that’s your choice, but all I ask is be honest and admit it – don’t hide behind words like bitching or not understand.

As for your love for the game you play, well that is not my business it’s yours.

Melvyn


Kyle

I'm not the one saying it takes 6 hours, it come from the majority on this site.

[Tom Huckaby]

Melvyn:

Again you miss the point - and this time by so far, I question your powers of reading comprehension.

The point ONCE AGAIN is not questioning how you play.  Oh I fully understand how you play, and who taught you, and how wonderful it is.  It is the right way.  It is the best way.  I admire and envy you that this is how you do indeed play.

The point is rather that you continue to maintain that this is the ONLY WAY... that those who honor the spirit of the game can possibly play.

And it has nothing to do with distance aids or carts or the like.  We can argue until the cows come home about those.

It's more THE GENERAL.

You maintain your way is the ONLY WAY.

And that is just plain not true.  Not if one really loves the game.

TH

[Paul Stephenson]

Jim

Yes  - with clubs, balls, legs, arms, eyes and brain.

No carts, electronic aids, distance crap or any outside help. You, the golfer against the course, unaided. Simple but its surprising how many seem unable to play that way anymore – expect like TH, they are looking for the easy options.

Melvyn

So time is not a factor then?

[Charlie Goerges]

Let's not get too sidetracked from the original intent of the post with the slow-play issue here guys. That's a much more mechanical issue who's cure is likely mechanical as well. Ronald's original question was about us, try telling everyone what YOU are doing out there.

[Tom Huckaby]

Let's not get too sidetracked from the original intent of the post with the slow-play issue here guys. That's a much more mechanical issue who's cure is likely mechanical as well. Ronald's original question was about us, try telling everyone what YOU are doing out there.

In rounds that take a long time?

Waiting on those in front of me.  A lot.  Got any ideas how to fix that?

Since there are no easy answers there - nor are there any quick fixes for general slow play - my feeling is that a better question is how does one best make use of all the waiting time.  And I kinda like Ronald's attitude.

TH

[Melvyn Morrow]

Tom

Thanks

“Again you miss the point - and this time by so far, I question your powers of reading comprehension”.

I could say the same about you.

My post was just repeating how I play the game of golf and why – I also said “You can’t, do not want to or just do it your way  - then fine that’s your choice, but all I ask is be honest and admit it – don’t hide behind words like bitching or not understand.”

I also went on to say “I can’t claim its MY Game but I can claim to play it in the form it was taught to me at St Andrews”.  Now that is true.

If one really loves the game, would you want to play it in any other form than the traditional way? Well if you love it I would presume that one would not, but then thats me with my assumptions again.

Chill out Tom, looks like you are starting to bitch and we don’t want that.

Melvyn


Paul

Time has never been a problem for me in GB or any part of the world - never played in the US

Charlie

Take your point, but we need to examine the way the game is played to fully understand what maybe causing the problems

[Charlie Goerges]

I probably am out there for many of the reasons that Ronald states and then some. So I’ll start with what I am NOT doing out there. I’m no longer out there feeling that golf is a big drain on time, effort, and money, which requires me to expend more of said resources than I currently am in order to have fun. I’m no longer out there kicking myself over a bad shot or a bad score.

I AM out there having fun; even if the round is taking a long time. In fact I’ll go so far as to say that: IF I am having fun, THEN the round is not taking too long. No matter how much time has elapsed. Essencially I am doing what Mr. Huckaby is doing; making the best of a difficult situation. For the most part the bigger obstacle to me having fun has been my own play. That is no more, as I outlined on the “Do High Handicappers Have More Fun” thread.

But I think the original question could be paraphrased as “What makes golf fun/worthwhile?” Why play this game rather than shooting clay pigeons? To this, I am not sure of the answer in the least.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom

Thanks

“Again you miss the point - and this time by so far, I question your powers of reading comprehension”.

I could say the same about you.

My post was just repeating how I play the game of golf and why – I also said “You can’t, do not want to or just do it your way  - then fine that’s your choice, but all I ask is be honest and admit it – don’t hide behind words like bitching or not understand.”

I also went on to say “I can’t claim its MY Game but I can claim to play it in the form it was taught to me at St Andrews”.  Now that is true.

If one really loves the game, would you want to play it in any other form than the traditional way? Well if you love it I would presume that one would not, but then thats me with my assumptions again.

Chill out Tom, looks like you are starting to bitch and we don’t want that.

Melvyn


Paul

Time has never been a problem for me in GB or any part of the world - never played in the US

Charlie

Take your point, but we need to examine the way the game is played to fully understand what maybe causing the problems

Melvyn:  I am as chilled as the other side of the pillow.

But at least we are getting things a little straighter.

I find this to be very presumptious, which of course is natural given the word you use:

If one really loves the game, would you want to play it in any other form than the traditional way? Well if you love it I would presume that one would not, but then thats me with my assumptions again.

I find your presumptions and assumptions to be fundamentally incorrect.

My feeling is that if one loves the game, one plays it in all forms; those he prefers and loves AND those available to him at the time and venue at which he can play.

My feeling is you would have me quit the game rather than play it as I am forced to play all too often here.  I find that to be very much biting off one's nose to spite one's face.

And we wouldn't want that, would we?

[Charlie Goerges]

Tom, I agree that what to do with the waiting time, or what to do in reaction to having to wait are important questions. It may be that the answers also answer the original question. For you though, DO they? If not, I'd like to know what you really like about being out there.

Melvyn, I know the problem is important, but I understood the question to be more about what is RIGHT with the game on a personal level. Personally, I'd really like to hear your reason for being out there.

I still need to formulate a better answer than I've given and I'll try do to so as well.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom, I agree that what to do with the waiting time, or what to do in reaction to having to wait are important questions. It may be that the answers also answer the original question. For you though, DO they? If not, I'd like to know what you really like about being out there.

I don't really understand the question.. so I will just try to answer what I do understand.

What do I like about being out there?

Every single freakin' thing.  If I am playing golf, I am loving life.  Oh sure I am not perfect and get mad at myself and others like anyone else... and I sure prefer to play quickly rather than wait all day... but for me in general if I can play the game I am pretty happy.  I prefer to focus on the good rather than bitch about the bad.

Does this come close to answering your question?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Charlie

I look to golf for fun, entertainment and enjoyment, I always have.

I enjoy clay pigeon shooting and am happy with most of my scores, but with golf that is totally different. If I have had an indifferent round which may be down to me either not feeling up to 18 holes, not enjoying the course or just tired, there is not much too actually say, the fault is mine for deciding to play that day. However no matter if I am having a good or bad round all it takes is one excellent shot to make me want to play again.  The round can be well poor but that one shot I suppose proves that it is in me to play well so the challenge goes on. That is how I view golf - a game of well over 80 but just that one near perfect shot and I am talking about it for days. That’s golf for me and I can’t get that from shooting.

The time factor is not important as it takes what it takes, but then I have not suffered 5 or 6 hour rounds.


Tom

We will never agree, yet I expect we are not that far apart. 

I married my wife because I love her the way she is. I have never tried to change her appearance or her nature. In fact if anything I try to encourage her to be herself because that is part of the reason I fell in love with her in the first place. I view golf in a very similar way, I do not want to change what I have come to like and enjoy, I just see no need to do it.

Tom, play the game which ever way you want - that's down to you, bend and shape it as you wish thats down to you. Leave the game or stay again that down to you, but if you love something I can't see the reason why one would want to change it - what is "fundamentally incorrect" about that?

Melvyn

[Tom Huckaby]

Charlie

I look to golf for fun, entertainment and enjoyment, I always have.

I enjoy clay pigeon shooting and am happy with most of my scores, but with golf that is totally different. If I have had an indifferent round which may be down to me either not feeling up to 18 holes, not enjoying the course or just tired, there is not much too actually say, the fault is mine for deciding to play that day. However no matter if I am having a good or bad round all it takes is one excellent shot to make me want to play again.  The round can be well poor but that one shot I suppose proves that it is in me to play well so the challenge goes on. That is how I view golf - a game of well over 80 but just that one near perfect shot and I am talking about it for days. That’s golf for me and I can’t get that from shooting.

The time factor is not important as it takes what it takes, but then I have not suffered 5 or 6 hour rounds.


Tom

We will never agree, yet I expect we are not that far apart. 

I married my wife because I love her the way she is. I have never tried to change her appearance or her nature. In fact if anything I try to encourage her to be herself because that is part of the reason I fell in love with her in the first place. I view golf in a very similar way, I do not want to change what I have come to like and enjoy, I just see no need to do it.

Tom, play the game which ever way you want - that's down to you, bend and shape it as you wish thats down to you. Leave the game or stay again that down to you, but if you love something I can't see the reason why one would want to change it - what is "fundamentally incorrect" about that?

Melvyn

Melvyn:

That is EXACTLY the point.  You are asking me to change how I play; the game I grew up with, the game that is at all too many times required by the venue or the situation. There are courses where it's just plain sane to take a cart.  There are times when a rangefinder makes good sense and speeds up play.  There are times when due to crowds I know the round is going to take five hours plus.  I cannot change these things.  You would seem to want me to force a change where one cannot happen; or alternatively just not play the game at all.  That makes little sense to me.

I love the game of golf, and I change nothing about it.  I am forced to play certain ways at certain times.  Rather than fight the unwinnable fight, I go along with it and try to accentuate the positive.  I believe that is a true love for the game, and wholly consistent with the spirit of such.

And this is what I think you miss.  It's OK - it's wholly understandable given who you are and the fact you have never experienced the game here.  You just plain don't know.

And in that respect, you hit on the right word before - you PRESUME far too much.

TH

[Charlie Goerges]

Does this come close to answering your question?

Yes! Now, you were a bit vague, but that's exactly it.



Some examples of what makes the game fun for me:

"Discovering" a contour or ground element that makes it possible to play a shot differently than I otherwise might.

The sense of self-mastery I feel when a horrid shot does not, in turn, lead to another horrid shot.

The occasional amazing shot I get to hit, especially if it has come after horrid shot.

All the light-hearted talking I get to do with the people I'm playing with, which stands in stark contrast to the grind that life can be.

Laughing at my brothers alternately terrific and horrible shot-making and luck (much worse than mine).

The occasional mental picture I get to snap when I see something compelling. It could be a huge bunker that dwarfs the person standing in it, my brother David's ball 6-inches immediately to the left of a tree (he's a lefty), David flipping over a 7-iron and hitting it right-handed, the light filtering down through the boughs of the pine forest in which my ball currently resides...you name it.

I could go on, but hopefully this gets to the point.

[Tom Huckaby]

Charlie:

Those all sound great to me.  I wholly concur that those are great examples of the joy that can be found in playing this game.  I didn't get that you wanted specific examples like that, but put me down for all you say, and I'd likely agree with any other examples people can cite.  I find a lot of joy in many ways in this game.

I just also believe all of these things can and do happen in a five-hour round using carts and rangefinders...

And thus the game remains great.  Not just one way to play it - walking without distance aids and playing in three hours - but in all ways.

TH

[Anthony Gray]

  The question asks as "Americans". Is there an "American" approach as opposed to "Euro" approach? In the US we golf with each other more than golfing the course. The fellowship is more important than the game. That is why you see immature behavior at times in the US. It is a bunch of guys having fun. You can't get in too much trouble on the golf course so wives usually allow the addiction. No Absolutes.

   Anthony

[Kirk Gill]

For myself, I am in complete disagreement with Ronald's well-written and enjoyable initial post.

I'm not running away from anything, escaping from anything, when I play golf. It's not that life away from the course is perfection, but I resist the notion that in some way I'm using the game of golf as an escape from the rest of the world. I'm drawn to golf, not repelled by my life. When I'm on a golf course I'm in a contest with myself to see if I can control my body and my intellect and my emotions better than I did the last time, or as well as I did that one time when I was really ON. I'm enjoying a sense of cameraderie with my fellow players. I'm "interfacing with the architecture (Thank you, Mr. Mucci) with appreciation or curiosity or bother or sometimes even a laugh or two. I'm walking on the grass and hitting a ball with a stick and watching it go. I'm choosing to play by rules written and unwritten, and taking the opportunity to both use and learn ethics and etiquette. I'm playing a game that I truly enjoy. On occasion, maybe I am escaping, I guess, but that's just because on a daily basis a golf course is a place I'd really like to be.

[Charlie Goerges]

I just also believe all of these things can and do happen in a five-hour round using carts and rangefinders...

And thus the game remains great.  Not just one way to play it - walking without distance aids and playing in three hours - but in all ways.

TH

Agreed. And I love the word you used: JOY. I wasn't able to articulate it, but you did. I play golf to find that feeling of joy that often doesn't exist in other areas of life (excluding family, where there is much joy).

[C. Squier]

Off Topic - James Naismith is my great, great uncle.  I only play basketball in the backyard by shooting at a peach basket nailed to my garage.  You chumps dunking a ball on break away rims with your fancy glass backboards aren't playing real basketball.  Leather shoes?  Get yourself a pair of Chuck Taylors.  I nearly faint when I see someone dribble between their legs. 

On Topic - Escaping "life" isn't the reason I play golf, but it can certainly be a nice byproduct.  Throwing the bag over your shoulder by yourself at 7 pm on a warm summer night....nothing better than that. 

With a ton of snow on the ground, I found myself flipping a Pro V around in my hand the other day.  It took me to another day, standing on the tee box of a course I thought I'd never play and later making a great birdie, pulling it out of the cup.  Told my golfing buddy as we trudged through the snow on our way to lunch to yell at me the next time I complain about a "handicap double bogey" because the 6 months of not being able to play is close to torture.  Every year I find myself feeling guilty for taking even one moment of the last season for granted. 

Golf can be a game, a sport or a job.  A testament to the depth of Golf is that it can be a million different things to a million different people.  Which is why I find it so shallow to tell another person how they *should* be experiencing Golf and not congratulating them for finding their own little piece of satisfaction in what they do. 

[Jim Briggs]

Extremely well said Clint.  Boy am I looking forward to spring time...

[Kalen Braley]

A few things I've learned on this thread.

When it comes to golf...I've been doing it wrong.
When it comes to basketball...I've been doing it wrong.
When it comes to playing golf to escape my awful life...I've been doing it wrong.

[Anthony Gray]

  Of course I'm running away. Why else would I love something I am so bad at. You usually enjoy only what you are good at.

  I have never had to drain pus, talk to my divorse attorny or spell correctly on the golf course. Escape? You betcha!!!!!!!!!!!

  Anthony

 

[Tom Huckaby]

I just also believe all of these things can and do happen in a five-hour round using carts and rangefinders...

And thus the game remains great.  Not just one way to play it - walking without distance aids and playing in three hours - but in all ways.

TH

Agreed. And I love the word you used: JOY. I wasn't able to articulate it, but you did. I play golf to find that feeling of joy that often doesn't exist in other areas of life (excluding family, where there is much joy).

Seems we are quite copacetic about this, Charlie.

Only this:  with both a 13 year old daughter and a 2 year old son, I tend to have to search hard for joy at home these days.

 

[Charlie Goerges]

I hear you. I oversimplified family joy. I should have said the joy there outweighs the non-joyous emotions.

Thanks all who gave your reasons, I've enjoyed reading them.