[Andrew Brown]

My home course has a par 3 that measures 218 metres (about 240 yards) from the back tees. It is a wood from the tee for all but the strongest and most skilled players.

It is flat topographically, with a very wide, deep green. The front of the green is unprotected and clipped to fairway height, though usually soft from watering run-off. This affects the ability to run the ball onto the green. On the rhs are 3 bunkers to gather a shot that leaks to the right. To the left is some deep rough, and starting about 12 yards left of the green is rocky scrub with some mature trees (basically a lost ball situation)

Finally it plays into the prevalent wind, and is the start of a stretch of 5 holes running the same direction.

Architecturally I consider it boring, though potentially dangerous to use a driver to try to reach the green, and off my handicap of 10 I take a 5 wood layup, and then try for an up and down pitch and putt par at best.

The professionals don’t seem to face this type of challenge (i.e hitting a wood for their tee shot) too often, though Oakmont’s 8th was interesting to see at the US Open 2 years back…

What are your opinions about such lengthy par 3’s? What architectural features do you consider enhance the challenge of a long, long par 3? In routing, when might such a hole exist in the round?

Regards from Norway
Andrew

[Phil McDade]

Andrew:

I've grown quite fond of the long par 3 as a design element in courses. I think it's entirely appropriate to ask the player to use a wood off the tee of a par 3 in a round. Things I think make for good ones of the length you describe.

-- Fairly generous openings to the green.

-- Large greens.

-- Interesting internal green contours, to make for a variety of pin placements and so the golfer isn't just hitting to a very large table-top with little interest in the green.

-- Obvious penal areas (as opposed to hidden or semi-blind penal areas -- bunkers, creeks, depressions, whatnot -- which I think are neat in a short, target par 3).

-- Modest changes in elevation, either uphill or downhill. I'm not a big fan of the very long and very downhill par 3, and a severely uphill, long par 3 strikes me as bordering unfair.

One of the reasons I like these holes is that, unlike some par 3 designs, it affords the golfer some degree of options/choice about how to attack it.

[Mark Bourgeois]

For! One of the many loves lost in medal play is a bracing decider hole towards the end of the round, a thrilla and a killa for the match.  Like to see a big green with a legitimate layup option and no trouble most of the way but a dry, sandy terror on the shoulders.

Gentlemen! I come to praise Ganton 17, not to bury it!







Marc Gantony

[Chris Garrett]

Andrew,

I am absolutely a fan of the lengthy par-3.  Based upon your description, there appears to be nothing unfair about the hole describe, only a brute of a hole to indeed play.  Such is much of the fun of good golf.  When I play golf courses in which I am hitting short irons/wedges into every one-shotter, I become a bit bored.  A par-3 which forces me to pull out the 2-iron or 3-wood typically excites me more than most shorter holes.

In terms of design elements... I'll echo the thought above about clear openings, large greens, and error on the side of less elevation change.  Basically, allow the green/hole to accept shots and don't do anything unfair.  If the golfer can't reach the green in one shot, ensure that there is a suitable lay-up option.

[Chris_Blakely]

I am a fan of the mid to long par 3 220 yards to 245 yards.  Many of these holes that I like the most are Biarritz holes from the MacDonald, Raynor, Banks, and Emmet (not the typical green) mold.  I like variety in par 3's and every once in a while requireing a long iron or a 3 wood off a par 3 is a offers a different challenge.

Forsgate CC Banks courses has 245 yard Biarritz hole on fairly flat ground that is fun.
Stonebridge GL (George Bahto) has a 220 yardish Biarritz hole on flat ground that is good
Cavalier G & YC Banks has a 220 ish yard Biarritz hole that has had the green slightly altered by Lester George that is a fun hole on flat ground
Leatherstocking has a 220 ish yard hole (around 245 from the orginal Emmet tees - no longer used) that is slightly downhill, but not by much.

If the hole is going to be over 250 yards and a par 3, I would hope that it plays at least a club's length down hill.  There is one in Michigan that is fun at the Jackal GC.  I believe the hole is around 260 yards and plays downhill over one club length.

[Andrew Summerell]

Andrew, my home course has 2 long par 3's. The 3rd at 218m (240y) & the 16 at 212m (235y). As Phil said, a wide opening is generally a necessity, but our 3rd hole has quite a thin & small green. It was originally designed as a short par 4 (and could still be a good short 4 if it had an extra 40m today), but still plays quite well as a par 3.

If you have a look at the course review of Newcastle GC (Australia) in Courses by Country you'll see a picture of the 3rd. The bunkering around the green is quite tight, but it never intrudes into the front of the green. There is a carry bunker, but that's only 200 yards to carry. Once over that there is a reasonable amount of room short of the green to land a wood & let it roll on. It works as a very interesting hole.

One issue I do have with very long par 3's and it is an issue many have with Newcastle GC it that you don't really need two of them on any one course.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Well, they have been around since Carnoustie 16 was built so they must have some merit.

My former college golfer son and I were discussing this on this very day, (he woke up and saw a preliminary routing on my screen, and noticed 2, 250 yard par 3 holes....one was really just a copy and paste centerline that was going to get shortened anyway) so we discussed it a bit.

Right after the Oakmont open, I was inspired to design a 285 yard par 3 from the tips. It has not gotten rave reviews.  I have previously built par 3's of about 270 yards on a few occaisions.

I like the general concept of using par 3's to force back tee players to use a long iron to reach a green in reg figures (as opposed to reaching a par 5 in 2)  It seems that when you get that long, most good players say its okay, but want the length to correspond right to THEIR 3, 4, or 5 wood, rather than having them hit a soft driver, etc.  I guess it is a bit more palatable to "invent" an in between shot with shorter clubs......

Perhaps oddly, better players I have talked to prefer the long par 3 into the wind, so they can hit it hard and have the wind help it settle.  Downwind, they feel they really have to butter cut the shot and hit it high to get it to hold.  The long and short of is that players don't mind a par 3 up to 240-250 but I have found little favor in designing par 3 holes that require a driver.  Not that I thought I would necessarily, but even 270 is a 3 wood for a few, but you can't necessarily design for them.

[Bill_McBride]

My one and only hole-in-one in 50+ years of golf was made on such a hole at the Kings Putter in 2005 (I think) at Stevinson Ranch's #16.  We played to a front pin into a brisk wind at about 220 yards.



A few months later at the Dixie Cup, I hit my driver to 2" on the 230 yard #13 hole at Mid Pines:



Do I like long par 3's?  You bet! 

[Dave_Miller]

My home course has a par 3 that measures 218 metres (about 240 yards) from the back tees. It is a wood from the tee for all but the strongest and most skilled players.

It is flat topographically, with a very wide, deep green. The front of the green is unprotected and clipped to fairway height, though usually soft from watering run-off. This affects the ability to run the ball onto the green. On the rhs are 3 bunkers to gather a shot that leaks to the right. To the left is some deep rough, and starting about 12 yards left of the green is rocky scrub with some mature trees (basically a lost ball situation)

Finally it plays into the prevalent wind, and is the start of a stretch of 5 holes running the same direction.

Architecturally I consider it boring, though potentially dangerous to use a driver to try to reach the green, and off my handicap of 10 I take a 5 wood layup, and then try for an up and down pitch and putt par at best.

The professionals don’t seem to face this type of challenge (i.e hitting a wood for their tee shot) too often, though Oakmont’s 8th was interesting to see at the US Open 2 years back…

What are your opinions about such lengthy par 3’s? What architectural features do you consider enhance the challenge of a long, long par 3? In routing, when might such a hole exist in the round?

Regards from Norway
Andrew

Charles River N0.11 is 239 yds from the back tee to a very interesting green that tends to slope front to back somewhat with an interesting rise on the right side of the green as you go back.  Bunker to the right front of the green.  Rough to the left. Fairway bunkers on right and left that can catch an errant shot. 
fun to play
Best
Dave

[Bill_McBride]

I don't know how many of the Southern California GCAers have played Yorba Linda CC in Orange County, but I remember a college championship event played there years ago.  Two of the par 3s on the back nine were each 250 yards and sandwiched a 590 yard par 5! 

In the days of persimmon woods, those were some long holes back in the day.

[Will MacEwen]

I am a big fan of Bandon Trails #12.  Driver is a little much, four wood a little short for me.  It is definitely a par 3.5 in my book.

[Sean Leary]

16 at Capilano is an excellent one.

[Sean_A]

I like the long par 3 which tops out at say 250 (if downhillish), but more likely 235 is a better yardage.  Anything more than 250 is pushing it so I say call it a par 4.  I guarantee you that the same hole with the longer par will garner better reviews.  What moderately talented mid capper doesn't want the opportunity to putt for eagle?  Plus, I have always really liked the idea of a long par 3 to help balance out a few short par 4s.  In general, we don't have enough holes in the 225-300 yard range - regardless of the par assignment.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

I like the variety of having holes of all lengths ... too much of modern architecture is built at stereotyped "good" lengths.

However, the difficulty in building a 250-yard par-3 is that people are likely to criticize it as too difficult if you put in very much in the way of interesting features!

I have only seen three par-3 holes in my life that were really meant to play as dogleg par-4's by the shorter hitter:

Cypress Point 16th (obviously)
West Sussex 6th (220 yards over or around a small pond near the green)
The Berkshire Blue 1st hole (a very interesting first tee decision)

Someday I'll build a hole like that, but I'm sure I'll never hear the end of it.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Tom Doak,

I think I recall CBM and/or other golden age authors or critics talking about "good lengths"  I think CB even put the proper lengths. I also recall writers saying that a hole of, say 300 yards has "no kick" or "no bite" or something to that effect and that was at least 40 years ago.  As always, I could be wrong.

My 285 yarder of last year was into the wind and had a Biaritz green, which I think accounts for the criticism.  Par still matters to most, and its unreachable by most, even if I put a little down slope in front to help balls get there.  And, the surrounds are mostly fw grass and the swale is shallow.  Golfers!

[Tom Dunne]

Royal Ashdown Forest has a 249-yard par-3, the 11th. It plays downhill (great view of the Forest from the tee) and you can try to play a running draw onto the green. The wind seems to swirl around that area so it can be played with a decent variety of clubs from day to day. Fun hole.

[Garland Bayley]

Jeff,

I believe you've got the CBM statement reasonably correct. Tilly wrote that a par 3 should require no more than an iron shot.

[Matt_Ward]

The long par-3 has been a casualty for many, many designs that I have visited over the years.

It's amazing to think that the old time designers would use such holes and I'm talking about lengths that could easily exceed 240 yards. When you compare the equipment of that era with what you see today it makes the contrast even more noticeable.

Too many courses have a formulaic quartet of par-3 holes and the usual spread sheet is likely from 140-150 to 200-210 yards. Heaven help if someone opted to throw into the mix a much longer par-3 that might even call for the big stick being used.

One of my favorite long par-3 holes is the 11th at Mauna Kea -- RTJ gets plenty of ink for the more noted 3rd hole but the 11th is the more striking hole for pure shotmaking in my mind.

I like a smaller target for the long par-3 hole in order to put additional pressure on the stronger player to get there. The higher handicap types already has an issue with such a hole because of its length -- in so many ways it's better for this player to lay-up and then attempt to make a pitch'n putt for a par.

The 11th strikes plenty of fear -- especially when you realize that the slightest tug to the left or push to the right will mean a big time score for those intent on reaching the target.

Long par-3's are needed because they serve to counterbalance the desire to have an especially short par-3.

Playing the 11th into a headwind has got be one of the most demanding holes one can play.

p.s. One other thing to mention as it was stated earlier -- the revamped 17th at the Banks Course at Forsgate (Monroe Twsp) is also well done and quite interesting.

[Anthony_Nysse]

#4 at Colonial-248 yds
#8 at Long Cove-245 yds

COMPLETELY different holes from those distances compared to tees ahead of them, for the better...

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Brian Joines]

The 13th at Wolf Run at 243 yards is a great long par 3. It's very intimidating from the tee with an array of bunkers dotting the hillside. However, there's plenty of room to go long. The green also has a fairly severe back to front slope towards the back portion of the green. Both times I played the hole I was able to land the ball just short of this hill which fed it back towards the middle of the green.

I'd say I'm a fan of the longer par 3 but in small doses. At the Indiana University golf courses, I think all of the par 3's are between 190-225 which I didn't care for.

[Jaeger Kovich]

As far as long par 3's go I have no problem up to a certain point. Tillinghast says the ideal length of a par 3 should not exceed a playing yardage of 200 yards including wind and slope, but thats when people were still using the Bounding Billy. He also went on to design a number of holes that exceeded this, especially on his reef holes.

The only time a long par 3 bothers me is when there is no choice but to play driver, because it takes all the strategy out of the equation. I understand that sometimes architects are trying to make the golfer feel uncomfortable on the tee, but driver takes all the thinking out of the shot.

I have only played a driver once on a par 3, it was at Stanwich playing from the witch tees with a club pro from a well respected metropolitan club. I explained to him, as i selected my club, that this was the first time I ever hit driver on a par 3, and not because I couldn't reach with a wood, but because it was the right choice. With a heavy cross wind and a pond encroaching from the right, a punch driver was the smart choice instead of trying to crush a 5-wood which i probably would have sliced into the pond. But when there is no thinking involved, and the hole is totally unreachable without the big stick, I dont like it.

[Mike_Cirba]

If Wayne Morrison were here, he'd tell you all about William Flynn's Long, Long par threes, and he'd be right.

Two of my very favorites of Flynn's include the 15th at Philly Country Club and the 10th at Rolling Green, although the 14th there is just a long par three is that outstanding and plays like a long, long par three..   

Of course, while we're in the region, the 5th at Pine Valley ain't a bad little hole either.

To me, the basic test of a long, long hole is it shouldn't have some long silly water carry, where the best you can do is either try it or bail out somewhere.

Despite it's breathtaking beauty and unbelievable sense of place, the 16th at Cypress Point would not be a great hole if that water was simply a still lake.

I think what a great long, long hole needs is some really interesting land forms that can either be used to help a running shot if the correct line is chosen, or propel the ball further from the target if the correct line is missed.

[Kyle Harris]

Mike,

The 3rd at Huntingdon Valley is now playing 230 yards from the new back tee.

Just so ya know pardner.

[George_Bahto]

My home course The Knoll, the 13th plays 247 from the back, only one tee built in 1928 Charles Banks

[PCCraig]

If Wayne Morrison were here, he'd tell you all about William Flynn's Long, Long par threes, and he'd be right.

The Par-3 2nd at Glen View Club (Flynn) was originally a 250 yard hole...however the rest of the Club's par-3 holes are on the mid to short size.

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