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Forrest Richardson

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Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« on: January 13, 2009, 02:01:35 PM »
I recently read an article that indicates Gary Player has 300 courses to his credit. That seemed like a lot and my guess is that most all must be well out of my radar scope. Where are they?

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/first-gary-player-signature-course/story.aspx?guid=%7BA5081F51-6D3D-4B35-B39C-028725320A56%7D&dist=msr_1
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— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
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Reef Wilson

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 02:03:56 PM »
Quote from: Forrest Richardson on January 13, 2009, 02:01:35 PM
I recently read an article that indicates Gary Player has 300 courses to his credit. That seemed like a lot and my guess is that most all must be well out of my radar scope. Where are they?

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/first-gary-player-signature-course/story.aspx?guid=%7BA5081F51-6D3D-4B35-B39C-028725320A56%7D&dist=msr_1

There's probably at least 50 in South Africa.
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Mike_Cirba

Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2009, 02:04:54 PM »
Forrest,

Yes, and he spent a good 8 or 9 months onsite at each of them.   ;)
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PCCraig

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2009, 02:09:13 PM »
The 3 that I have played (that I am aware of); Geneva National, The Floridian, and Cougar Point at Kiawah are all actually pretty darn good.
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Tim Leahy

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2009, 05:01:31 PM »
there are a few in Cali-Steele Canyon, Pacific CC, and Mission Hills come to mind.
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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2009, 05:30:28 PM »
Raspberry Falls and -- well, he got into a tussle and had his name revoked from Hunter's Oak before it was finished and so Tim Freeland finished it and maybe redesigned it a little so he got the credit but let's give that one to Player as well.  Benefit of a doubt etc etc.

Okay, that's 58 and counting. Almost there!
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Wyatt Halliday

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2009, 05:35:26 PM »
Quote from: Pat Craig on January 13, 2009, 02:09:13 PM
The 3 that I have played (that I am aware of); Geneva National, The Floridian, and Cougar Point at Kiawah are all actually pretty darn good.

I'll add the Player Course at the Woodlands Country Club to the darn good category.
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2009, 05:39:17 PM »
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2009, 05:46:13 PM »
River Run at the Maryland coast is almost unplayable.
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Forrest Richardson

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2009, 05:58:02 PM »
I would have guessed between 150 and 200. This may well be a case of a PR firm simply mis-writing.
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— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
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Sam Morrow

Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2009, 06:39:23 PM »
Quote from: Wyatt Halliday on January 13, 2009, 05:35:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Craig on January 13, 2009, 02:09:13 PM
The 3 that I have played (that I am aware of); Geneva National, The Floridian, and Cougar Point at Kiawah are all actually pretty darn good.

I'll add the Player Course at the Woodlands Country Club to the darn good category.

Agreed, have you played his work near you at Fair Oaks Ranch?
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Wyatt Halliday

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2009, 07:17:46 PM »
Yes.

I am not as big a fan of it as the Woodlands course
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Padraig Dooley

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2009, 07:27:35 PM »
He has a substantial amount in Africa.

Off the top of my head his ones that I've played include:

Leopard Creek, Sun City -Gary Player CC and Lost City, Erinvale, Dainfern, Fancourt- Links, Montagu, Outeniqua, Roodepoort CC and Pretoria CC.

They're all not bad to play and Leopard Creek, both Sun City courses, Fancourt Links, Erinvale and Pretoria CC are very good.

I think Fancourt Montagu was redone by David McLay Kidd since Player's initial contribution.

He also may have had a hand in Elephant Hills in Victoria Falls which I walked around once. I have also driven by his Blair Atholl estate in Johannesburg which has been developed into a golf estate and he claims is his best project, which I know he claims about all his courses, but he has done some really good work.
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Paul Saathoff

Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2009, 08:13:02 PM »
There are two Player courses here in Hong Kong... part of the Hong Kong Jockey Club's public golf complex, the only public courses here in Hong Kong.

They are Awful...

I believe he has several others in the region.
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Mike_Cirba

Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2009, 08:36:50 PM »
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on January 13, 2009, 05:30:28 PM
Raspberry Falls and -- well, he got into a tussle and had his name revoked from Hunter's Oak before it was finished and so Tim Freeland finished it and maybe redesigned it a little so he got the credit but let's give that one to Player as well.  Benefit of a doubt etc etc.

Okay, that's 58 and counting. Almost there!

Mark,

I thought Hunter's Oak was Ian Scott-Taylor?

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Sam Morrow

Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2009, 09:10:53 PM »
Quote from: Wyatt Halliday on January 13, 2009, 07:17:46 PM
Yes.

I am not as big a fan of it as the Woodlands course

Agreed, Fair Oaks is a good members course and not much more.
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Pat Burke

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2009, 09:33:57 PM »
Pcaific in socal is 27 holes that you would be very hard pressed to come up with 18 you would want to play
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Ronald Montesano

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2009, 09:44:32 PM »
Don't forget the dreaded Lyman Orchards Player course outside Hartford:
http://www.ctgolfer.com/news/headlines/2008/1215.html

While the Trent course might need renovations, the Player course is unplayerable. 

This should not surprise us.  Remember how many worldwide championships he used to claim as an active competitor ("Vivian and I won the post-menopausal husband-wife world championship just last week!")  Player is the king of hyperbole and embellishment.  I'm shocked that he stopped at 300.
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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 10:18:18 PM »
Quote from: MikeCirba on January 13, 2009, 08:36:50 PM
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on January 13, 2009, 05:30:28 PM
Raspberry Falls and -- well, he got into a tussle and had his name revoked from Hunter's Oak before it was finished and so Tim Freeland finished it and maybe redesigned it a little so he got the credit but let's give that one to Player as well.  Benefit of a doubt etc etc.

Okay, that's 58 and counting. Almost there!

Mark,

I thought Hunter's Oak was Ian Scott-Taylor?



Oh yeah, Freeman did the 9 holer there.  How did I get the two mixed up?

Magic!



Mark
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Eric Smith

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2009, 10:23:05 PM »
I've played both of his courses on Hilton Head - H.H. National (public) and Dolphin Head (private).  Both are a lot of fun. 

My sister lives on the 11th green at Dolphin Head and on a recent visit I went out and walked the back 9 one evening - the course was in really good shape and there are some gorgeous specimen live oaks - big ones - in and around the holes.  I believe the course is about 35 yrs old.  A good members course and club.
 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 10:24:45 PM by Eric Smith »
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Wyatt Halliday

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2009, 12:11:52 AM »
Quote from: Sam Morrow on January 13, 2009, 09:10:53 PM
Quote from: Wyatt Halliday on January 13, 2009, 07:17:46 PM
Yes.

I am not as big a fan of it as the Woodlands course

Agreed, Fair Oaks is a good members course and not much more.

Sam,

I think this is a good case of the better course being built on inferior land.

Thoughts?
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Sean_A

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2009, 03:21:45 AM »
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on January 13, 2009, 05:30:28 PM
Raspberry Falls and -- well, he got into a tussle and had his name revoked from Hunter's Oak before it was finished and so Tim Freeland finished it and maybe redesigned it a little so he got the credit but let's give that one to Player as well.  Benefit of a doubt etc etc.

Okay, that's 58 and counting. Almost there!

Mark

I recall a definite difference in quality between the front and back (much better).  Who did the design work on the back?

Quote from: Eric Smith on January 13, 2009, 10:23:05 PM
I've played both of his courses on Hilton Head - H.H. National (public) and Dolphin Head (private).  Both are a lot of fun. 

My sister lives on the 11th green at Dolphin Head and on a recent visit I went out and walked the back 9 one evening - the course was in really good shape and there are some gorgeous specimen live oaks - big ones - in and around the holes.  I believe the course is about 35 yrs old.  A good members course and club.

Eric

I thought HH National was alright, but I thought B Weed designed one of the nines, from memory the better nine.  Is this true?

Ciao
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Anthony Gray

Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2009, 05:49:49 AM »


  Nob North in Dalton GA is the best golf for your dollar I have ever played. Player friendly and risk/reward off almost every tee. I love this course.

  Anthony

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Jonathan Cummings

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2009, 06:28:18 AM »
Raven Course at Hawthorne Valley is an excellent Player course.  I've hosted a tournament there for 14 years running and we always look forward to going back.

"Player course" needs some explanation.  Gary showed up for the second time on opening day.  Player's lead architect - Tom Walker - lived with his wife at Hawthorne for the 8 months they built the course.  It's a Walker course in everything but its name.

JC
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Chris_Blakely

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Re: Gary Player — 300 Courses ?
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2009, 12:35:30 PM »
I have only played Lyman Orchards Player course and remember it being quite bad - lots of awfull mounding and several head scratching holes.

Chris
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