The summer of Maxwell has begun

[Chris_Clouser]

I began my quest this past weekend of playing/touring as many Maxwell courses as possible this summer.  I am hoping to hit almost half of his original designs this summer.  I started this past weekend in the Southwest Kentucky area with the Princeton Country Club and the resort course at the Kentucky Dam Village resort.  

The Princeton course was originally a nine hole course in the same town as Maxwell's birthplace.  The course has since added nine holes.  The original nine holes do have some Maxwell flavor as the course uses the terrain very well and creates some sweeping fairways from right to left and vice versa.  Some of the greensites were exceptional, but the greens themselves were tame in comparison to the more well-known greens at Prairie Dunes and Old Town that Maxwell did.  The biggest problems the course has are maintenance issues with keeping turf alive and an over-proliferation of trees.  They feel that the more trees they have the better their course plays, but they don't realize that this is part of their turf problem as it prevents sunlight from getting to many parts of the course and eliminates some possibly wonderful views of the course.

The Kentucky Dam Village course was in much better condition as they have a larger source of funds due to the state funding of the park.  I only toured the course as my wife wouldn't let me play two rounds on our "family" vacation.  (Where are here priorities? )  This course was carved out of the trees alongside the water, thus explaining all the tree-lined fairways, but the course did feature some interesting holes.  The elevation changes were much more significant as you got closer to the clubhouse up on the highest point of the course.  The greens were much more undulating than those at Princeton, but according to the locals those were more due to the renovation in the 1960s than to the original design by Maxwell.

Each course had its strengths from what I could tell in playing and touring.  The Princeton course seemed much more of a natural course, while at times the KDV course seemed forced into the land.  Not that much land was moved in either case, but the elevations at KDV at times seemed much more awkward.

[David Wigler]

Chris,

You are a lucky man and I envy your summer.  Give me an e-mail when you make it to Ann Arbor to play U of M.  I am right down the road.  I also am anxious to hear your thoughts on Praire Dunes and Southern Hills.  I loved them both but may be the only one I know who liked Southern Hills a little better.  In fact, Southern Hills is on the short list of the three or four best courses I have ever played.

[brad_miller]

David, which holes at Southern Hills are truely "world class" such as #'s 2,8,10 and 17 at PD?

[David Wigler]

Brad,

Rather than discuss specific holes, I prefer to evaluate a course based on the sum of its parts.  For example, 18 at Doral might be a world class hole but the course is weak.

Both Prairie and Southern have absolutely brilliant green complexes.  You can find interesting approach and bail out shots all over the place.  The difference is in recovery shots off the tee.  Prairie Dunes is fairway and then knee high prairie grass.  If you ball goes in it by five feet, it is lost.  The course offers no interesting options for a sprayed shot.  Due to this, the green complexes were not as highlighted.  I usually will hit the green when I am in the fairway (5 handicap).  Southern Hills was fairway, rough, trees (Without an overgrown canopy - IMO).  When a tee shot left the fairway, it offered several brain teasers at where to hit the recovery shot for a best opportunity at an up-and-down par.  I felt this made it a far more strategic golf course and better for a thinker (Who sprays his tee ball from time to time).  As good as Prairie was, I'll bet I hit 16 greens (Either in regulation or in regulation once I counted 3 off the tee).  I loved them both but the lack of tee ball options is why I think Prairie is an 8 and Southern a 9 or 10.  They both are world class.

[brad_miller]

David, I will agree that PD with a little more width would be slighty more strategic off the tee, but the native areas are not really in play except for a real poorly struck shot. Playing multiple rounds with mid-high single digit HCers I can only recall a few balls going into the native ares, hole #'s 3,7,13 and 18 and we had significant wind, most balls were found, it was April and it was luck of the draw if you had a play. That being said, for a course to be truely "world class" IMO it must have a few holes that are "best of breed" which means it could reasonable be discussed as one of a handfull of best such holes in the world, and also few if any "dog" holes.

What do most consider to be Southern Hills best 3-5 holes?

[Craig Rokke]

Chris-
A month or two ago, you were looking into Malvern, PA's
Chester Valley Golf Club. Were you able to get the pictures
you were looking for? I'm trying to remember if you got confirmation of Maxwell's involvement there at some point,
either after Ross, or in lieu of Ross.

[mike_beene]

Re Southern hills,12 with its downhill approach is my favorite.The first tee is a great start with the drive to the valley and the skyline.I dont like 18.The little creek that goes into the landing area and vanishes creates to much of a luck element for such a severe hole.Also the downhill lie approach to the uphill green makes every one hang on instead of having the chance to hit a quality shot.

[Jaque Jahant]

Southern Hills is very good, but better than Prarie Dunes. I don't see it.

[brad_miller]

Having not played Southern Hills, am just wondering what many consider to be its finest holes, one vote for 12, any more? Are there ANY world class holes?

David, by the way doesn't PV have fairway and then its own style of native area?

[Chris_Clouser]

Craig,

I'm still trying to get that information together to determine whether Maxwell was there or not.  I'm awaiting a couple pieces of informaiton which may make it very clear.  One is from the Tufts Archives and the other from the Hagley Museum in Delaware.

[David Wigler]

Brad,

I have not been avoiding you.  I was just considering whether I wanted to reduce the sum of its parts to specifics.  Southern Hills does not have any hole I like as much as #2 at Prairie Dunes (So long as the pin is in the front right).  The sum at Southern is better though.  As for world-class golf holes, 2, 12, 16, 18 all fit the bill for me.  I felt this course had the best, fairest, and most challenging set of par fours of any course I have ever played. This is where the comparison becomes tough.  Prairie probably had the second best set of Par 3’s I have ever seen.  Southern’s win on 4’s and 5’s gives it the slight edge.  #2 was probably my favorite par four and unarguably world class.  I played it 7 days after the Open and played with a pro from the Open tees.  #2 might be a par 5 for the members.  It is an awesome risk/reward tee hole.  Lay-up short of the creek and then try to get up and down for par or go for it and hit mid Iron into a terrific green.  I loved the options 18 gives the better golfer.  The fairway extension to the left is brilliant.  Great false front on the green as well.  

I have never been to Pine Valley so I cannot comment on it.  To be fair though, Pine Valley's native rough is sand.  Sand (Like trees) allows a better golfer to have creative options.  These types of hazards challenge your mind in finding recovery shots.  Waist high prairie grass just allow for three off the tee.  Try Southern Hills and then see if you disagree with me.

[brad_miller]

David, thanks, will try to get there this fall, when I get a chance will go to their web site to look at the holes you mention. Back left on PD#2 is also great. PV's native areas are mostly woods today, with little real recovery chance.

[Craig Rokke]

Chris-
I was talking to a Chester Valley member today who has been "playing there for 50 years". He says the original layout is definitely Perry Maxwell's work.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Southern Hills and Prairie Dunes each have their own unique personalities.

Both are quite enjoyable to play, offering more than a reasonable challenge.

[jack5]

Southern Pines and Prairie Dunes are from two different worlds even though both claim Maxwell as their father.  To me, Prairie Dunes is a top 25 layout.  Southern Pines was disappointing...nothing more than a Midwestern parkland with overgrown trees...