[Chris_Blakely]

Kyle,

Do you have the rest of the front 9.  So far, it has been an interesting thread.

Chris

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle,

Do you have the rest of the front 9.  So far, it has been an interesting thread.

Chris

Chris, I do.

Currently buried in a Powerpoint I am presenting at Penn State next week regarding the White Course - but I'll be chipping away at this thread during the day.

[Chris_Blakely]

Kyle,

Thanks.  Great thread so far.  Are they doing work at PSU?  How many holes there are Park?

Thanks,

Chris

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle,

Thanks.  Great thread so far.  Are they doing work at PSU?  How many holes there are Park?

Thanks,

Chris

No work that I'm aware of. The 6th green through the 14th hole is Park, with exception of the 12th hole, which was par 3 added to replace the old first hole when they flipped the nines some time between 1930 and 1939.

[Bob Harris]

This appears to be a good course in what looks like a rather stable neighborhood. I note that someone mentioned it's at most 6000 yards. Could this length, or lack thereof, be the prime source of its failure?

John,

I think it was more a case of a advancing membership age. As the neighborhood grew older and the younger money moving further out into the suburbs it was more likely people in their late 20s and early 30s would join places like Manufacturers, Lulu, Huntingdon Valley or Philmont - all of which are bit further out in the suburbs and closer to the "newer" neighborhoods. Also, all these places are within 10 miles of Ashbourne. Ashbourne was notoriously under the radar and even for me when I'd seek out a new course it was always between playing Philly Cricket/Whitemarsh/Lulu/Mannies or Ashbourne and in my own mind I'd keep pushing Ashbourne back. Sorry that I did now as the course closed while I was still in Florida.

The last effort to bring some money into the club was to eliminate the 2 par 3s along the entrance road to build high rise condos and add two additional par 3s elsewhere on the course, which was completely. However, the condos never passed the zoning board and the club seems to have simply run out of money.

Kyle is correct that the advancing age of the membership was a prime cause of the decline, but the lack of length made it difficult to attract younger members.  Things really went bad in the mid 90s when a large bloc of members left and joined Philmont or Meadowlands.  The members eventually sold the club to Matrix, who also manage Commonwealth National. Matrix starting running the club as a semi-private and I think it was their plan to build the condos.

[Joe Bausch]

Rather than goop up this nice thread with my photos, I'll post the address below for the photo album I created of Ashbourne from our walk there last week (100+).

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/AshbourneCC/

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I don't think Matrix has run out of money.They appear to be just "mothballing" the course until the real estate market turns around. The golf market is done for this course IMO.If Matrix gave up on this course as an annual membership or daily fee course, who would want to buy it and operate it. I'm sure it was a money loser.

I think a lot of the remaining annual members defected to Blue Bell CC. Another factor for the loss of members may have been the lack of a driving range/practice area.

[Bart Bradley]

Can someone explain the aerial to me?  How do you get from 9 green to the 10th tee?...surely the labels are wrong?  You'd have to walk across 3 to get to #10 if the diagram is correct?   

Bart

[Kyle Harris]

Can someone explain the aerial to me?  How do you get from 9 green to the 10th tee?...surely the labels are wrong?  You'd have to walk across 3 to get to #10 if the diagram is correct?   

Bart

Bart,

That is correct. In the original routing one had to walk behind the 3rd green.

At some point, the front nine was changed so that 8 and 9 became 3 and 4.

[Bob Harris]

Can someone explain the aerial to me?  How do you get from 9 green to the 10th tee?...surely the labels are wrong?  You'd have to walk across 3 to get to #10 if the diagram is correct?   

Bart

Bart,

That is correct. In the original routing one had to walk behind the 3rd green.

At some point, the front nine was changed so that 8 and 9 became 3 and 4.

The 7th hole in the aerial was shortened to a par 3 when the clubhouse was enlarged. and a parking area was added.

# 8 became #3
# 9 became #4
# 4 became #5
# 5 became #6
# 6 became #7
# 7 became #8
# 3 became #9  (shortened to a par 3)

[Steve_ Shaffer]

And the beat goes on....


http://www.citizenscall.net/uncategorized/matrix-guilty-of-failure-to-maintain-ashbourne-property-but-judge-can-impose-only-minimal-fines/



Still no condos.

[Mike Viscusi]

Does anyone know the current state of Ashbourne?  Was anything ever done with the site?  Who owns it currently?

Thanks...

[Joe Bausch]

Does anyone know the current state of Ashbourne?  Was anything ever done with the site?  Who owns it currently?

Thanks...

I believe Matrix Hospitality still owns it.  My last communication (2012) with someone associated with the Concerned Citizens for Ashbourne relayed to me what is on this site, which hasn't been updated of late:

http://www.cc4a.org/

Maybe Ian Scott-Taylor can provide an update.  He was the last architect at Ashbourne.

In my research on Cobb's Creek I discovered that Ashbourne is, in fact, a Willie Park, Jr. design.  Sad to see it go.

I took photos of what it looked like about 2 years after it closed up shop.  Nature abhors a vacuum!  ;-)

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/AshbourneCC/

[astavrides]

I took photos of what it looked like about 2 years after it closed up shop.  Nature abhors a vacuum!  ;-)

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/AshbourneCC/

I think in the desert they are a little less recognizable as former golf courses a little sooner. There is one like that out here (Trevino 9 at Rio Rancho CC) that you should come and take pictures of.  Just closed a year ago and looks like the rest of the desert already.

[Mark McKeever]

A lot of it still looks recognizable from Bing maps.  I doubt the market would support it, but it looks like it wouldnt be that hard to get it going again.   

Mark

[Joe Bausch]

A lot of it still looks recognizable from Bing maps.  I doubt the market would support it, but it looks like it wouldnt be that hard to get it going again.   

Mark

If the nearby JC Melrose takes public play, I think a restored Ashbourne would have trouble as a public.   

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matrix and the Twp. recently settled the zoning litigation:

http://www.cheltenhamtownship.org/pView.aspx?id=2428&catid=29

The course is history and will be developed eventually.

[BCowan]

I was researching the Willie Park Jr thread for Park Jr tracks in PA.  Planning on doing a Park Jr Gem journey in PA in the next 5 years and stumbled across this thread.  I was curious to hear from Locals why the course went down hill and eventually under?  Losing a Park Jr track is sad (i understand this was 5 years ago or so), and Willie is probably the most under appreciated Archie by the average golfer IMO. 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Ashbourne went under because of a few factors:

1. The membership got old.
2. Philmont recruited many of the younger members.
3. Changing demographics in the area.
4. Matrix tried to make a go of it after the members sold as an annual fee club but the land was more valuable for development.

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