Ashbourne Country Club: A Postmortem

[Kyle Harris]

A curiosity sits behind the 17th green which we shall talk about later. After catching our bearings, we begin to explore the 18th hole:

Kyle,

Are you referring to the new green complex.  The developer's plan was to build condos on the 9 th and 10th hole.  To complete the 18, the 3 rd hole was changed to a dogleg right and a new par 3 4th was built.  To replace 10, they built a new par 3 with the green behind the 17th.  If you check out Google Earth you can see that in 2004, the 9th green had already been abandoned.

Bob

Indeed I am.

Sounds like this developer was frankly, a moron.

[Ray Cross]

The difficulties of Ashbourne CC back in the mid-90's were, also, a game-changer for the Golf Association of Philadelphia.
As a long -time member of GAP Ashbourne was aware of the by-laws of GAP which stated all member clubs had to have "exclusive use of their course" and by becoming semi-private and "daily fee", Ashbourne CC would violate that rule.
Ashbourne's officers partitioned GAP for by-law change; GAP worked with member clubs to see the wisdom of such a change and by the late 90's the membership clubs voted to rewrite the by-laws.
Ashbourne CC stayed a member and then, many newer golf clubs were invited to join and GAP's growth continued.
It's always sad to see a golf course/club disappear (particularly among a group like this) but Ashbourne's problems generated new thinking and direction for the GAP which has lead to its high ranking today among regional associations.

This post is slightly OT but any postmortem should have a little history beyond par, yards and doglegs, don't you think?

Tom...I'm interested in your take on this.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Ray,

See posts 13,15,20,21  and 22 above for some history.

[Kyle Harris]

The difficulties of Ashbourne CC back in the mid-90's were, also, a game-changer for the Golf Association of Philadelphia.
As a long -time member of GAP; Ashbourne was aware of the by-laws of GAP which stated all member clubs had to have "exclusive use of their course" and by becoming semi-private and "daily fee", Ashbourne CC would violate that rule.
Ashbourne's officers partioned GAP for by-law change; GAP worked with member clubs to see the wisdom of such a change and by the late 90's the membership clubs voted to rewrite the by-laws.
Ashbourne CC stayed a member and then, many newer golf clubs were invited to join and GAP's growth continued.
It's always sad to see a golf course/club disappear (particularly among a group like this) but Ashbourne's problems generated new thinking and direction for the GAP which has lead to its high ranking today among regional associations.

This post is slightly OT but any postmortem should have a little history beyond par, yards and doglegs, don't you think?

Tom...I'm interested in your take on this.

Ray,

Your post is most certainly germane to this discussion!

[Ronald Montesano]

That is really painful to see a golf course in that state. 

I've had the sad fortune to see two as such over the past five years.  Pistol Creek in Middletown/Berlin CT closed after less than three years in play, about three years ago.  The Belfry International, situated near Rochester NY along the I-90, never opened for play (although I saw a soft opening in the Fall of 2004 or 2005, I believe.)  The putting greens usually go first, then the fairways and bunkers.

[Ronald Montesano]

Indeed I am.

Sounds like this developer was frankly, a moron.

Thundering Waters, the John Daly (really Bo Danoff) course in Niagara Falls, ONT, succumbed to the pressures of the market and closed its first hole, a decent 410 yard par four.  To make matters worse, they did the same with #10, another decent 390 yard par four.  The greatest travesty on this otherwise decent course, however, is the gelding of the 620 yard 2nd hole into a 320 yard first hole.  There is a creek about 220 yards off the tee, a fairly simple carry.  Once you get over it, you bound onto the green.  Therefore, you back up play immediately from the start as no one can really drive until the green has cleared.

[BCrosby]

Perhaps I am a sap, but I find Kyle's pictures haunting.

Ironically, pictures of a dying course seem to show off architectural features better than pictures of a well maintained course.

Thanks for posting the pics. Please hold on to them. They are an important part of the historical record of the course.

Bob

[Joe Bausch]

Perhaps I am a sap, but I find Kyle's pictures haunting.

Ironically, pictures of a dying course seem to show off architectural features better than pictures of a well maintained course.

Thanks for posting the pics. Please hold on to them. They are an important part of the historical record of the course.

Bob

And if Kyle ever loses his pics, no worry, as I snapped away with another camera as we walked along. 

[astavrides]

Ironically, pictures of a dying course seem to show off architectural features better than pictures of a well maintained course.



Bob

Yeah, it's like when I take a walk in nature and I imagine what I nice golf hole could be built there....

[Kyle Harris]

What was even more haunting was finding the occasional bunker rake, yardage plate and the remnant of irrigation around the course. Toro 690 shells with the guts taken out, probably sold.

I am going to post the front nine later on this evening.

[Sean_A]

Kyle

Thanks for posting the pix.  I think the course looks very interesting and I can imagine there were shared fairways out there back in the day.  Its very difficult to tell, but do many of the greens run front to back?  I sense some do as they have that eerie sense of flatness which I think Park was fond of. 

Honest to goodness Kyle, some of those pix remind me a ton of holes at Stoneham, Huntercombe, Temple and a few other reasonably well preserved Park Jr courses.  Like Fowler, he seems to have stuck to his guns about lay of the land golf.  There is a real divide when I see a course by these two compared with Colt.  Anyway, you of all people need to get yer ass to England (and a few joints up in Scotland like Gullane 2 & 3) and do a PARKlands tour.   

Ciao

[Kyle Harris]

Sean,

With all the Park courses within 10 miles of where I am currently sitting... maybe you need to get yer arse over here again!

Philmont North
Ashbourne

Penn State White
Graete Bay
Berkshire (Reading, PA)
Glen Ridge
Schuylkill CC (1, 5-7, 14-18)

[Chris_Blakely]

Sad to see this course go.  I can't wait to see the pictures of the front 9.

[Kyle Harris]

Continuing with the first nine. Joe and I made our way across the 18th green to the rather attractive and simple first tee. The hole appears to have been a gentle introduction the course:



Based on the J.E. Ford article, two bunkers dotted the left side of the fairway at one point.

Walking up the fairway, I was seemingly transported to my beloved White Course or Glen Ridge as the first green here would fit in well with any hole on those two courses:



Compared to:



And:



Compared to:

[Bob Harris]

Continuing with the first nine. Joe and I made our way across the 18th green to the rather attractive and simple first tee. The hole appears to have been a gentle introduction the course:

Kyle,

Actually, it was the hardest hole on the course.  Measuring 430 yards, it played longer, and the fairway was no more than 25 yards wide.  It was always the number 1 handicap hole on the scorecard.

Bob

[Ronald Montesano]

You know, this course reminds me of the visual images I created upon reading the Golf In The Kingdom passages (volume 1 or 2, can't remember) when Murphy visits Seamus' laboratory.  There is something evocative and haunting about a ghost town.  It ain't all bad.

[Dan Herrmann]

Ronald,
Perfect word, "haunting". 

[TEPaul]

BobC:

If you think Ashbourne looks "haunting" right now you should see the old Ross course on Fort George Island, Florida. Nature has pretty much taken it all back at this point but not completely. It's pretty spooky to suss out those old holes. If not for the old tee and green pads you wouldn't know it had ever been there. The supreme irony is the beautiful clubhouse has now been restored and even the old first tee shed and pro shop stand ready for some ghost to tee it up! 

[Dan Boerger]

This is too bad --- I played in a GAP match at this course a few years ago and recall some very fine holes. Great group of guys I played with, too.

Some "thinning out" of private golf in this area is inevitable.

[Kyle Harris]

Here's a labeled routing diagram taken from a 1941 aerial available at Penn Pilot:

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I understand from a long time member who asked me to post that the original 13th hole was a dogleg right par4 as shown on the aerial and the green was originally about 30y behind the current green. The current hole was built in the late 1950s by the superintendent? to alleviate congestion as drives from the original 13th landed at the bottom the 14th fairway.

I also understand that the current 17th tee was the prior 16th green.

[Kyle Harris]

I understand from a long time member who asked me to post that the original 13th hole was a dogleg right par4 as shown on the aerial and the green was originally about 30y behind the current green. The current hole was built in the late 1950s by the superintendent? to alleviate congestion as drives from the original 13th landed at the bottom the 14th fairway.

I also understand that the current 17th tee was the prior 16th green.

Steve,

That's interesting re: the 16th hole since the description of the holes in the J.E. Ford articles pretty well reflect what is on the ground today. Where did you hear this?

Joe and I were very confused because we found the location of the old 13th green on the way to the 14th hole. Since the course obviously hasn't been maintained for months, the old green site looked like it could very well have been the tee for 14, except for the rather mature dogwood sitting right in the middle of the hole!

[astavrides]

Here's a labeled routing diagram taken from a 1941 aerial available at Penn Pilot:

Yeah, #1 looks playable without the 30 foot high canopy of trees lining and overhanging the fairway.

[John_Cullum]

This appears to be a good course in what looks like a rather stable neighborhood. I note that someone mentioned it's at most 6000 yards. Could this length, or lack thereof, be the prime source of its failure?

[Kyle Harris]

This appears to be a good course in what looks like a rather stable neighborhood. I note that someone mentioned it's at most 6000 yards. Could this length, or lack thereof, be the prime source of its failure?

John,

I think it was more a case of a advancing membership age. As the neighborhood grew older and the younger money moving further out into the suburbs it was more likely people in their late 20s and early 30s would join places like Manufacturers, Lulu, Huntingdon Valley or Philmont - all of which are bit further out in the suburbs and closer to the "newer" neighborhoods. Also, all these places are within 10 miles of Ashbourne. Ashbourne was notoriously under the radar and even for me when I'd seek out a new course it was always between playing Philly Cricket/Whitemarsh/Lulu/Mannies or Ashbourne and in my own mind I'd keep pushing Ashbourne back. Sorry that I did now as the course closed while I was still in Florida.

The last effort to bring some money into the club was to eliminate the 2 par 3s along the entrance road to build high rise condos and add two additional par 3s elsewhere on the course, which was completely. However, the condos never passed the zoning board and the club seems to have simply run out of money.