Spending a day at Augusta

[Patrick_Mucci]

What I would enjoy about playing the tips is honestly and truly trying to match the tee shots of the pros.  I never said I had any expectations of success.  However, I would want to try, once.  You have to understand it given your quote about Mickelson....

I do understand that, it's just that the course has gotten so long, at 7,745, with relatively short par 5's, making some of those tee shots and approaches incredibly difficult.  # 7, # 9, #11, # 17 and # 18 for example

Regarding approach shots, oh yes those would be fun also.  And yes actually hitting from the same distances the pros have will only occur if I play up.  I get you re 18, and expect that would happen on other holes as well.

Sad but true.

I'd just want to try the tee shots, that's all. 

I completely understand that.
But, to cure you of that fixation, I'd take you to the back of the 18th tee prior to the round and ask you,
"are you sure you really want to do this ?"
I think one look would convince you that if you were going to pursue that path, it wouldn't be for enjoyment.

BTW it also seems odd to me they don't have that set of intermediate tees you suggest.


That's why I used the word "heresy".
Traditionally, there's ONLY been two sets of tees, the Members and the Masters.
I believe a third set would enhance the golfing experience for a great number of members and guests alike, but, I must confess, I like and respect tradition.

[C. Squier]

The golfer who rips one down the middle on # 18 at Winged Foot West can ask, I wonder how much Phil Mickelson would have paid me for that drive ?

I'd be more inclined to hit a three iron in the fairway and send him a photo with the note: "Dear Phil, just an idea for next time..."

Scott,

Your suggestion to Phil would seem to indicate that you've never played # 18 at WFW from the back tee.

I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of a golfer taking a 3-iron off that tee, especially one who needs to par the hole.

I suspect that Phil might write back to you, inquiring of your golfing credentials and your epxerience in playing WFW from the tips under tournament conditions.

Phil didn't catch that sucker very solidly....I think he could've hit his own 3 iron to where he popped that drive up to.  From my visit this summer, we played the tees probably not 20 yards in front of where they hit from on US Open Sunday and our well hit drives were a good bit past the tree he was behind.  And I'm not long by any set of PGA standards.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Clint,

How far is it to the green from that spot, 240 yards ?

Is that the shot you want coming into that green with the hole cut in that location ?

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

The enjoyment would come in the attempt.

Would you also have me lay up on 16 Cypress just because it's into the wind?

Take me to 18 way back tee and I'd laugh and say bring it on.  Once.  I couldn't live without trying it for myself.

That's the point. 

TH

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick:

The enjoyment would come in the attempt.

Would you also have me lay up on 16 Cypress just because it's into the wind?

No, I'd rather watch you donate a dozen Pro V1's to Davy Jones.

The first time I came to # 16 tee the wind was howling in my face, the salt spray from the rocks getting me pretty good.  My caddy suggested that I lay up to the left.  I stated that I didn't come 3,000 miles to lay up and hit my best drive of the day onto the green.  I was so excited by the shot that I went back to the hotel, and dragged my girlfriend back to the 16th tee to show her the shot I had hit a few hours earlier.

Take me to 18 way back tee and I'd laugh and say bring it on.  Once.  I couldn't live without trying it for myself.

I understand.
But, there comes a time when you have to come to grips with reality and realize that even when you hit your best tee shot, you can't get home with your approach, provided you've even made it to the fairway and aren't in the woods.

I'd guarantee you that all future rounds would be from the Members tees.

That's the point. 

I understand.
You'd rather shoot in the 90's from the tips than in the 60's or 70's from the Members tees.

It's the MACHO thing to do

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

There's nothing macho about it whatsoever.  Ask the locals here about me and tees... I am always the one begging to move up.

Just not at this course, not for one try anyway.

It has to do with emulating the greats, honestly and truly.  For one who postulates about selling a shot to Mickelson at Winged Foot, you have a remarkable stubbornness about giving the real shots ONE try elsewhere.

BTW, I too hit a shot into a howling wind onto the 16th green at Cypress (about 45 minutes after another GCAer not to be named figured it was impossible and exhiliratingly laid up), and it remains a great memory.  There was nothing macho about that attempt either... it was more just a fun thing to try. 

As the shots would be at Augusta.

And like I've said several times now, I only need to try them ONCE.

TH

[Charlie Goerges]

But Tom, Cypress 16 has history. The tee at Augusta 18 post-dates my high-school graduation.

[Tom Huckaby]

But Tom, Cypress 16 has history. The tee at Augusta 18 post-dates my high-school graduation.

In terms of golf holes and the concepts we're discussing here - emulating the pros, selling successful shots to them - 16 Cypress is relatively meaningless, at least compared to ANY hole at Augusta.  I just used its 16th hole for an example of a difficult, perhaps Quixotic, shot.

And that's the point.  Oh sure, it would be MORE fun for me to hit from the tees Nicklaus played in 1986.  Heck, before too long those likely WILL BE the members' tees.  But for now.. the one to emulate is Tiger.  And he plays the tips.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

Whats this man-crush fascination you have with all the pros?  While his golf swing would be nice to emulate, I'd much rather try to emulate the amount of zeros in his bank account to the left of the decimal point.   

I guess all these guys play a game of which I'll never be familiar, it doesn't occur to me to try some of the stupid shots they've done.  Although I would love to try that chip in on 16 that Tiger did.

[Tom Huckaby]

Huh.  Interesting how this has developed into a "man-crush."  I guess Mucci has it also for all the ones he named....

The point remains that it's likely the most famous course in the world, the one I have seen more of without seeing it in person than any other.  I have lived and died with the heroics there for many years, and would like to fully test myself on the venue for such heroics.  I have zero delusions that I would sorely fail.  But that also doesn't mean I have to give up and put on the training wheels as some want me to do.

Because you see.... the whole point remains the attempt.  Showing me how far off I really am, well... I lose no ego there.  I know they play a game with which I am unfamiliar.

Just HOW unfamiliar would remain interesting for me to see.

And it's not a fair test if I put on the training wheels.

TH

[JMEvensky]

Huh.  Interesting how this has developed into a "man-crush."  I guess Mucci has it also for all the ones he named....

The point remains that it's likely the most famous course in the world, the one I have seen more of without seeing it in person than any other.  I have lived and died with the heroics there for many years, and would like to fully test myself on the venue for such heroics.  I have zero delusions that I would sorely fail.  But that also doesn't mean I have to give up and put on the training wheels as some want me to do.

Because you see.... the whole point remains the attempt.  Showing me how far off I really am, well... I lose no ego there.  I know they play a game with which I am unfamiliar.

Just HOW unfamiliar would remain interesting for me to see.

And it's not a fair test if I put on the training wheels.

TH

Completely agree.The day I'm asked to take BP at Yankee Stadium I have no intention of hitting from 2nd base.

[Tom Huckaby]

Huh.  Interesting how this has developed into a "man-crush."  I guess Mucci has it also for all the ones he named....

The point remains that it's likely the most famous course in the world, the one I have seen more of without seeing it in person than any other.  I have lived and died with the heroics there for many years, and would like to fully test myself on the venue for such heroics.  I have zero delusions that I would sorely fail.  But that also doesn't mean I have to give up and put on the training wheels as some want me to do.

Because you see.... the whole point remains the attempt.  Showing me how far off I really am, well... I lose no ego there.  I know they play a game with which I am unfamiliar.

Just HOW unfamiliar would remain interesting for me to see.

And it's not a fair test if I put on the training wheels.

TH

Completely agree.The day I'm asked to take BP at Yankee Stadium I have no intention of hitting from 2nd base.

BINGO!

Funny how some get this, some don't.

 

[JMEvensky]

Huh.  Interesting how this has developed into a "man-crush."  I guess Mucci has it also for all the ones he named....

The point remains that it's likely the most famous course in the world, the one I have seen more of without seeing it in person than any other.  I have lived and died with the heroics there for many years, and would like to fully test myself on the venue for such heroics.  I have zero delusions that I would sorely fail.  But that also doesn't mean I have to give up and put on the training wheels as some want me to do.

Because you see.... the whole point remains the attempt.  Showing me how far off I really am, well... I lose no ego there.  I know they play a game with which I am unfamiliar.

Just HOW unfamiliar would remain interesting for me to see.

And it's not a fair test if I put on the training wheels.

TH

Completely agree.The day I'm asked to take BP at Yankee Stadium I have no intention of hitting from 2nd base.

BINGO!

Funny how some get this, some don't.

 

What reasonably competent golfer would,if given the opportunity,do otherwise?

[Kalen Braley]

Oh sure,

Just change the topic and try to make me look bad.    Of course I take BP from home plate too, but then again I played years of organized ball as opposed to nothing formal in golf.

As you've pointed out Huck, in the end its just about personal preferences in whatever floats one's boat.  Playing from that back tee at WF would be more akin to a par 5 to me, so I guess it doesn't really get my interest up.

So I'll rescind the man-crush part...but you may still want to seek professional help for that though. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen:

I think you continue to miss the point.  It's not about succeeding, it's about trying.

You're a big guy.  I've seen you hit the ball far - farther than me.  Oh as a higher handicapper you have little chance of any sort of score success from the tips at Augusta - but heck, neither do I.

But you see, this isn't about score success.  It's about that ONE magical shot.

And you can't tell me you have no chance of that.  I've seen how far you can hit the ball.

Again, on most holes the chance of success for even the one magical shot is next to nil - as Mucci loves to point out.

But again, that doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun to try.

I'd think you could understand this... and even embrace it... but maybe not.  If so, that's fine.

TH

[ChipRoyce]

Ugg - the page doesn't seem to exist any more at the site...

Can anyone else find it?

[Charlie Goerges]

But Tom, Cypress 16 has history. The tee at Augusta 18 post-dates my high-school graduation.

In terms of golf holes and the concepts we're discussing here - emulating the pros, selling successful shots to them - 16 Cypress is relatively meaningless, at least compared to ANY hole at Augusta.  I just used its 16th hole for an example of a difficult, perhaps Quixotic, shot.

And that's the point.  Oh sure, it would be MORE fun for me to hit from the tees Nicklaus played in 1986.  Heck, before too long those likely WILL BE the members' tees.  But for now.. the one to emulate is Tiger.  And he plays the tips.

TH

Agreed RE the 86 tees. I guess i just think those are more significant than the new tees. Plus weren't the tees from which Tiger played in 97 similar/same to 86? I would consider 97 to be Tiger's most significant Masters victory.

[Morgan Clawson]

Chip,

I couldn't get the link to work either.

A friend of mine played there recently and I want to show him these pics...

[JMEvensky]

Chip,

I couldn't get the link to work either.

A friend of mine played there recently and I want to show him these pics...

I believe GolfWRX took down the thread at the request of the original poster.

[Patrick_Mucci]

There's nothing macho about it whatsoever.  Ask the locals here about me and tees... I am always the one begging to move up.

Just not at this course, not for one try anyway.

It has to do with emulating the greats, honestly and truly. 


I understand that, what I'm trying to get across to you is that the task is so Herculian that it's well beyond your ability to come anywhere close to achieving.

However, there are some holes that you'll do well on, the par 3's and par 5's, but, the par 4's have become the domain of the PGA Tour caliber player.
If you're content to fail to have the shots you've seen on TV, let alone execute the shots you face, then you'll probably enjoy yourself.

# 18 is probably over 465, uphill, through a narrow chute, with a dogleg to contend with.  It's just NOT FUN from the back tee.

For one who postulates about selling a shot to Mickelson at Winged Foot, you have a remarkable stubbornness about giving the real shots ONE try elsewhere.

There's a difference.
At WFW the "sale" is a drive that's already been hit in the middle of the fairway.
In your example you want to play the tips to see how you compare to the PGA Tour players in the Masters.  I'm merely trying to save you from a disappointing experience.  However, I do understand your desire, years ago, I would have encouraged you, but today, at 7,465 or more, I'd encourage you to play a combination of the tees rather than frustrate yourself by attempting shots beyond your ability.

BTW, I too hit a shot into a howling wind onto the 16th green at Cypress (about 45 minutes after another GCAer not to be named figured it was impossible and exhiliratingly laid up), and it remains a great memory.


Ditto.
It was an exhilarating experience, but, I don't know if I'd want to try 18 shots like that.

There was nothing macho about that attempt either... it was more just a fun thing to try. 

That's really a very unique shot, perhaps one of the most unique in all of golf and one couldn't be faulted, even if they failed, as they attempted a noble challenge.

The challenge at ANGC has gone beyond noble to the absurd for good amateurs, sort of like the 10th at BPB where PGA Tour golfers COULDN'T reach the fairway.

As the shots would be at Augusta.

And like I've said several times now, I only need to try them ONCE.

I understand.

[C. Squier]

Clint,

How far is it to the green from that spot, 240 yards ?

Is that the shot you want coming into that green with the hole cut in that location ?

Of course not, I was just pointing out how poorly he hit that shot.  It may not be 240, but it's a long way from where he whiffed it.  I was awestruck at how far back it really was.  3 iron off the tee isn't an option, unless you have a 3 shot lead. 

I on the other hand lipped out my 10 foot birdie putt with absolutely nothing on the line    But after 11 putts on the first 3 holes, probably didn't matter much.  Hardest greens I've ever putted....made Crystal Downs seem easy. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Clint,

The first green is one of the scariest in golf when it's at pace.

I recall that Nicklaus or some other golfing great three or four putted it after hitting it relatively close in one of the first rounds of the Open.

I've always felt that WFW's greens and surrounds made it 5 shots harder than Baltusrol Lower.

They're very difficult to recover to and putt.

One has to wonder, if Mickelson had used a 3-wood off the tee on # 18 would he have put himself in relatively the same position ?

Would his 3-wood swing have been that much different than his driver swing ?

[Jim Nugent]

One has to wonder, if Mickelson had used a 3-wood off the tee on # 18 would he have put himself in relatively the same position ?

Would his 3-wood swing have been that much different than his driver swing ?

His problem was that he was not hitting any clubs all that well.  Earlier on the back nine, on one of the par 4's, he missed the fairway off the tee with a 4-iron. 

[Tom Huckaby]

There's nothing macho about it whatsoever.  Ask the locals here about me and tees... I am always the one begging to move up.

Just not at this course, not for one try anyway.

It has to do with emulating the greats, honestly and truly. 


I understand that, what I'm trying to get across to you is that the task is so Herculian that it's well beyond your ability to come anywhere close to achieving.

However, there are some holes that you'll do well on, the par 3's and par 5's, but, the par 4's have become the domain of the PGA Tour caliber player.
If you're content to fail to have the shots you've seen on TV, let alone execute the shots you face, then you'll probably enjoy yourself.

# 18 is probably over 465, uphill, through a narrow chute, with a dogleg to contend with.  It's just NOT FUN from the back tee.

For one who postulates about selling a shot to Mickelson at Winged Foot, you have a remarkable stubbornness about giving the real shots ONE try elsewhere.

There's a difference.
At WFW the "sale" is a drive that's already been hit in the middle of the fairway.
In your example you want to play the tips to see how you compare to the PGA Tour players in the Masters.  I'm merely trying to save you from a disappointing experience.  However, I do understand your desire, years ago, I would have encouraged you, but today, at 7,465 or more, I'd encourage you to play a combination of the tees rather than frustrate yourself by attempting shots beyond your ability.

BTW, I too hit a shot into a howling wind onto the 16th green at Cypress (about 45 minutes after another GCAer not to be named figured it was impossible and exhiliratingly laid up), and it remains a great memory.


Ditto.
It was an exhilarating experience, but, I don't know if I'd want to try 18 shots like that.

There was nothing macho about that attempt either... it was more just a fun thing to try. 

That's really a very unique shot, perhaps one of the most unique in all of golf and one couldn't be faulted, even if they failed, as they attempted a noble challenge.

The challenge at ANGC has gone beyond noble to the absurd for good amateurs, sort of like the 10th at BPB where PGA Tour golfers COULDN'T reach the fairway.

As the shots would be at Augusta.

And like I've said several times now, I only need to try them ONCE.

I understand.

You really don't get it.  I just want to try it once.  I get that the course is too long.  I get that the task would be herculean.  I get that little if any successes would be achieved.

But I just want to try it.  ONCE.  I don't anticipate anything other than proving to myself just how long, stupid and brutal it is from those tees.  I think that would be fun and not "disappointing" in any way.

All other rounds we play members or a combo or whatever.

Is this really so difficult to understand?

TH

[Charlie Goerges]

In my best Dan Ackroyd voice:

TOM, you ignorant SLUT! 




I actually get it, it was the yankee stadium analogy that did it for me.