Bethpage / Black v Winged Foot / West

[JSlonis]

I have not played either, but have a question. From what I can tell, BPB seems to be on more varied topography. Is this correct?

Yes. Quite a bit so.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Wind is also a huge factor at BPB. I played it in 25+ mph winds last summer, you never see that in Mamaroneck.

[Matt_Ward]

Jaeger:

Wind is often unpredictable and I've had moments at WF when it blew quite strong.

Gents:

In the final analysis -- I see WFW as the more complete test of golf than BB. Sad to say BB has gone the steroid route of major championship play and with that has abandoned so many of its core qualities. A pity.

[Steve Lapper]

Matt,

   As I think you know, I grew up caddying at WF and playing competitive high school golf occasionally at BPB. I could go on and on about the often dramatic differences in both, but suffice to say, I won't.

  Proving that I may well be losing my mind , I am going to publicly agree with your final assessment, paadner. I love them both and relish a go at either whenever possible, but WFW is slightly more complete, if for no other reason than the complexity and strategy of its green complexes.

   More interestingly, I think they both stand heads and tails above most other "super-scale" strategic tracks (i.e Oakland Hills, Medinah, Oak Hill, Balty, Butler National and Southern Hills). Only the likes of SFGC, SHGC and Fenway, all showcases of Tilly's charm, rival these for his seminal work.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

It's OK to agree with me -- just don't make it a habit !

I think WFW often gets little love because of all of the massive scores that have been shot there during big time events. It's unfortunate because if the course is set-up properly and someone does play airtight golf low scores can be had. Just witness what Davis Love III did there in the '97 PGA. I really believe that with all the pomp and circumstance given to what Tiger did that same year at Augusta that Love's remarkable four-round total of 270 is rarely acknowledged for being some of the finest golf ever played in a major given the venue.

WFW makes you drive the ball at a high level -- Tillie provides room but as he has said -- it's the knowledge that the tee shot needs to be properly positioned because of the demands tied to the approaches which are among the finest I have ever played.

There are never any cheap birdies at WFW -- possibly at the 5th but few that simply fall into one's lap.

In regards to BB -- I am saddened that this gem of a layout has been bastardized into being a Barry Bonds look-a-like. The emphasis on more and more length -- with even more narrower fairways takes away so much of the inherent character of the layout.