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Mark_Rowlinson

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On their way to the trash can 3
« on: January 06, 2009, 12:53:39 PM »
The earliest Golf World listing of the Top 50 in the British Isles I seem to have kept is from 1986.

1. Ballybunion Old
2. Muirfield
3. Portmarnock
4. R Birkdale
5. R Co Down
6. R Dornoch
7. St Andrews Old
8. Sunningdale Old
9. Turnberry Ailsa
10. Woodhall Spa
11. Berkshire Red
12. Carnoustie
13. Formby
14. Ganton
15. Notts
16. R Lytham
17. R St George's
18. R Troon
19. Walton Heath Old
20. Wentworth West
21. Gleneagles King's
22. Hillside
23. Lindrick
24. Little Aston
25. R Aberdeen
26. R Liverpool
27. R Porthcawl
28. R Portrush Dunluce
29. Saunton East
30. Swinley Forest
31. Alwoodley
32. Ballybunion New
33. Blairgowrie Rosemount
34. Cruden Bay
35. Lahinch
36. Nairn
37. R Ashdown Forest
38. Rye
39. Sunningdale New
40. West Sussex
41. Addington
42. Belfry Brabazon
43. Hunstanton
44. Isle of Purbeck
45. Killarney Mahoney's Point
46. Prestwick
47. R Cinque Ports
48. R West Norfolk
49. Western Gailes
50. Woburn Duke's

You can argue about the order in which they appear or one or two contentious ones, but it's pretty conservative.
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Sean Leary

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Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2009, 01:40:57 PM »
Portrush at 28? Hmmm....

Would this be do to unreast in Northern Ireland at the time and difficulty getting there perhaps?
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Jim Nugent

Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2009, 03:47:27 PM »
Yet they ranked RCD #5.  Was it easier/safer to get there than to Portrush?
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Mark Chaplin

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Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2009, 04:50:15 PM »
No I believe they are both in more unionist parts of NI.

Nothing too shocking here, this is Ryder Cup time no the Belfry is no suprise. RAF and I of P have both lost a little favour, as has the Addington although 1986 is prior to the course being run down and losing condition.
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Cave Nil Vino

BCrosby

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Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2009, 05:42:20 PM »
No N Berwick?

Does just asking the question identify me as an American? ;)

Bob 
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Anthony Gray

Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2009, 06:07:58 PM »


 Cruden Bay No. 34? Burn it!!!!!!!!!!!

  Anthony

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Pete Lavallee

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Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2009, 02:38:29 AM »
I've heard of every course on this list except Lindrick; what is so special there. Where is it located and who designed it?
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Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2009, 05:57:17 AM »
Pete,
Lindrick is a very formal club near Sheffield: http://www.lindrickgolfclub.co.uk/index.html
It was the site of a very rare (in those days) home win in the Ryder Cup and has hosted European Tour events in the days when they still played these on traditional courses. It is laid out on public land, so you play your golf in company with people out for a walk with their dogs. Unfortunately the course is split either side of a very busy main road, which makes for two scary road crossings (shades of Worplesdon) and they have had to abandon a hole which ran parallel to the road. There are some terrific holes, especially the run from the 13th to the 17th, a hole on which Greg Norman, at the height of his powers ran up a 14 in a Tour event. The 4th is an eccentric hole with a totally blind approach to a tiny green well below the level of the fairway. As the green is located at the boundary of three (I think) counties it was used for cock fighting contests in years gone by because, if the police arrived, you could easily escape into another county. It is very well conditioned and excellent in winter. They used to have a substantially lower green fee for winter visitors. I have no idea about its design provenance - I'm sure someone out their knows.
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Jim Nugent

Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2009, 07:05:02 AM »
In 1986, Golf World ranked only two courses higher than Portmarnock.  Now it ranks around 16 courses higher.  Has the course changed, or have perceptions changed?

ETA: I just noticed Golf World now ranks Kauri Cliffs as #30.  That is higher than Barnbougle Dunes (#57), Machrihanish (#44), Mid Ocean (#49), N. Berwick (#50), and Highland Links (#38).   

« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 07:10:31 AM by Jim Nugent »
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Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2009, 07:44:07 AM »
I very much doubt that Portmarnock has changed one bit. Profiles change. It hasn't hosted a European Tour event for a while (its place taken by new, inland courses) and it's a long time since Phil Mickelson dazzled the young ladies of Dublin when he played in the Walker Cup.
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James Boon

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Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2009, 12:37:08 PM »
Quote from: Pete Lavallee on January 07, 2009, 02:38:29 AM
I've heard of every course on this list except Lindrick; what is so special there. Where is it located and who designed it?

Pete,

Following Mark's great intro to Lindrick, hope these pictures help?

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35782.0.html

Cheers,

James
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Bill_McBride

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Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2009, 12:39:08 PM »
Portrush, Hoylake and Porthcawl are all pretty far down the list.  Does the "Royal" appellation mean more today?
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Andrew Mitchell

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Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2009, 12:54:43 PM »
James

Thanks for the reminder re your Lindrick thread & the excellent photos therein. 

The Lindrick website makes no reference to its architectural history, merely stating that it opened as a 9 holer in 1891, was extended to 18 holes in 1894, and that various modifications have been carried out thereafter.  It would appear from Neil Crafter's comments on your original thread that Mackenzie claimed to have carried out some of the modifications but the club's website do not acknowledge this nor indeed give credit to any other architect.  It appears strange that the club are so reticent regarding the history of a fairly well known (at least in UK circles) and respected course.

Update:
I've just noted that the Top 100 courses website gives credit to Tom Dunne for the original nine and to Fred Hawtree for the revisions in the 1930s, the latter of which would have been post any Dr Mac involvement.
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Matthew Hunt

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Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2009, 04:00:53 PM »
Quote from: Mark Chaplin on January 06, 2009, 04:50:15 PM
No I believe they are both in more unionist parts of NI.

Newcastle is a majority Nationalist. It could be that Newcastle was thankfully less affected by the ‘Troubles’ than other town’s of it’s size, or more likely we in Down just have a better course ;)
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Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: On their way to the trash can 3
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2009, 07:13:48 PM »
Matthew, My mother's family came from Rathfriland, County Down, close to Newcastle, but there was a good deal of Apache territory between both. I can't imagine it was any different in the surroundings of Portrush.

Funnily enough, I happened to be staying with my mother's family (playing golf almost every day at RCD or Warrenpoint) when the 1968 riots took place in Londonderry. Can you believe it that I borrowed my aunt's car to drive over to Londonderry to watch the riots, people shooting each other across General Freeeland's line, the Bogside and so on?

As it happened, my mother's family lived two doors away from the police station in Rathfriland. It was a bit of a target for the IRA. They were bombed several times, but a display case of Waterford crystal between two drawing room windows survived a number of bomb attacks when less fragile things were blown to smithereens.

I was most recently in NI for the Walker Cup. It was as if there had never been any troubles. We stayed in a pub in Rathfriland which we could never have done before - it was RC - but what a welcome we got! 'You're Freda's nephew' etc! When they get it right there they get it very right.
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